Chain breaker/rivet tool - What do you recommend
08-31-2010, 07:24 PM
#1
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Chain breaker/rivet tool - What do you recommend
I am preparing to switch to a 520 15/43 or maybe 16/43 and I'll need a chain breaker and rivet tool. I watched a youtube video promoting a Motion Pro set. The demo was not on a chain mounted on a bike and I kinda wondered if this set up might be awkward to use in actual practice.
So, what do you recommend for a chain tool?
So, what do you recommend for a chain tool?
08-31-2010, 08:08 PM
#2
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Location: Ft. Worth, TX
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This one looks nice and appers to have everything you need. Honestly for removal all you need is a good file and punch. Move the link you are cutting to the rear sprocket, file off the heads of the rivets, take the punch and knock the links out. If you new chain comes with spacer clips use them! They will keep you from over mushrooming the rivets.
08-31-2010, 08:36 PM
#3
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Just use a master link and clip on you're new chain and you will not need to buy anything. I was a dumb-*** and paid a 100 for a motion pro. Use a dremel or grinder to break the old chain as stated above and to cut the new chain to length. Don't get one of those soft Vortex aluminum sprockets or you'll be buying another before long, Get and AFAM, Supersprox or Renthal or other quality sprocket. You can cut the chain to shorten your wheelbase a little too as i and some others OCDers have done. Have fun.
08-31-2010, 11:14 PM
#6
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Do not use a C-clip type master link, they are only suitable for low HP applications (under 60 HP).
There are 2 basic type of "riveted" master links. The "DID" type requires a "pin" type setting tool to "mushroom" the end of the pin after the outer side plate is pressed on (and do use the temporary "spacer clips" mentioned above to prevent over compressing the side plates on the O-rings). Most of the other manufacturers use a "quad-staked" master link pin which requires a different setting tool that usual stakes (flattens) the end of the pins once per "blow"; i.e., you rotate the "punch assembly" 90 degrees 3 more times. However, EK makes a very unique, simple and effective "screw-on" type master link that requires no special setting tool. Bare in mind that master links from one manufacturer for each chain size will not necessarily fit another makers. Carefully check each manufacturer's chain and master link printed dimensions to verify cross-fitting.
As to "breaking" a chain, I use a die grinder (the larger Dremel will work too) with a flat metal cutting blade and grind off the staked end of the pin, then use an inexpensive "chain breaker" to push out the pins out of the side plate. Whereas I have the "standard" Motion Pro chain tool, I prefer an inexpensive side plate press tool and only use the MP tool to mushroom DID type master link pins. Every chain manufacturer sells their own chain tool with RK's being the most popular/prevalent but it may not work on every quad-stake type master link. The MP "deluxe" chain tool that quad-stakes is ungodly expensive and you would be better off buying the RK or EK tool set.
There are 2 basic type of "riveted" master links. The "DID" type requires a "pin" type setting tool to "mushroom" the end of the pin after the outer side plate is pressed on (and do use the temporary "spacer clips" mentioned above to prevent over compressing the side plates on the O-rings). Most of the other manufacturers use a "quad-staked" master link pin which requires a different setting tool that usual stakes (flattens) the end of the pins once per "blow"; i.e., you rotate the "punch assembly" 90 degrees 3 more times. However, EK makes a very unique, simple and effective "screw-on" type master link that requires no special setting tool. Bare in mind that master links from one manufacturer for each chain size will not necessarily fit another makers. Carefully check each manufacturer's chain and master link printed dimensions to verify cross-fitting.
As to "breaking" a chain, I use a die grinder (the larger Dremel will work too) with a flat metal cutting blade and grind off the staked end of the pin, then use an inexpensive "chain breaker" to push out the pins out of the side plate. Whereas I have the "standard" Motion Pro chain tool, I prefer an inexpensive side plate press tool and only use the MP tool to mushroom DID type master link pins. Every chain manufacturer sells their own chain tool with RK's being the most popular/prevalent but it may not work on every quad-stake type master link. The MP "deluxe" chain tool that quad-stakes is ungodly expensive and you would be better off buying the RK or EK tool set.
09-01-2010, 03:40 AM
#8
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From 10-60 HP dirt bikes, to 45-160 HP Street bikes, to much more then 60 HP track bikes I own now or have owned, ridden for 35 years or so and hundreds I've worked on over the years.. clip type master links have worked without failure.
Common failures are seen from ham fisted install methods, c- clip back wards, or damaged upon install are common.
If a user can install a c-clip master link correctly they work just fine.
On a dirt bike you do have to keep an eye on wear, same time your looking at the chain post ride maintenance, check the link. The chain side plates get worn as that pass through the chain guide. On high hour chains in muddy / sandy conditions, the c-clip can wear excessively and need a replacement.
Having never had a C-clip Master link fail .. the benefits out weight the perceived, story-ed, faults I've never personally seen. To each his own.
skokievtr if you have personally seen a failed c clip master link, I would love to see pictures if you have um...and tell us how it was installed, using what tools, pic of the installed link,or what ever you have... Thanks
09-01-2010, 04:57 AM
#9
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Do not use a C-clip type master link, they are only suitable for low HP applications (under 60 HP).
There are 2 basic type of "riveted" master links. The "DID" type requires a "pin" type setting tool to "mushroom" the end of the pin after the outer side plate is pressed on (and do use the temporary "spacer clips" mentioned above to prevent over compressing the side plates on the O-rings). Most of the other manufacturers use a "quad-staked" master link pin which requires a different setting tool that usual stakes (flattens) the end of the pins once per "blow"; i.e., you rotate the "punch assembly" 90 degrees 3 more times. However, EK makes a very unique, simple and effective "screw-on" type master link that requires no special setting tool. Bare in mind that master links from one manufacturer for each chain size will not necessarily fit another makers. Carefully check each manufacturer's chain and master link printed dimensions to verify cross-fitting.
As to "breaking" a chain, I use a die grinder (the larger Dremel will work too) with a flat metal cutting blade and grind off the staked end of the pin, then use an inexpensive "chain breaker" to push out the pins out of the side plate. Whereas I have the "standard" Motion Pro chain tool, I prefer an inexpensive side plate press tool and only use the MP tool to mushroom DID type master link pins. Every chain manufacturer sells their own chain tool with RK's being the most popular/prevalent but it may not work on every quad-stake type master link. The MP "deluxe" chain tool that quad-stakes is ungodly expensive and you would be better off buying the RK or EK tool set.
There are 2 basic type of "riveted" master links. The "DID" type requires a "pin" type setting tool to "mushroom" the end of the pin after the outer side plate is pressed on (and do use the temporary "spacer clips" mentioned above to prevent over compressing the side plates on the O-rings). Most of the other manufacturers use a "quad-staked" master link pin which requires a different setting tool that usual stakes (flattens) the end of the pins once per "blow"; i.e., you rotate the "punch assembly" 90 degrees 3 more times. However, EK makes a very unique, simple and effective "screw-on" type master link that requires no special setting tool. Bare in mind that master links from one manufacturer for each chain size will not necessarily fit another makers. Carefully check each manufacturer's chain and master link printed dimensions to verify cross-fitting.
As to "breaking" a chain, I use a die grinder (the larger Dremel will work too) with a flat metal cutting blade and grind off the staked end of the pin, then use an inexpensive "chain breaker" to push out the pins out of the side plate. Whereas I have the "standard" Motion Pro chain tool, I prefer an inexpensive side plate press tool and only use the MP tool to mushroom DID type master link pins. Every chain manufacturer sells their own chain tool with RK's being the most popular/prevalent but it may not work on every quad-stake type master link. The MP "deluxe" chain tool that quad-stakes is ungodly expensive and you would be better off buying the RK or EK tool set.
Everybody gets an opinion, but I respectfully disagree with your personal opinion.
From 10-60 HP dirt bikes, to 45-160 HP Street bikes, to much more then 60 HP track bikes I own now or have owned, ridden for 35 years or so and hundreds I've worked on over the years.. clip type master links have worked without failure.
Common failures are seen from ham fisted install methods, c- clip back wards, or damaged upon install are common.
If a user can install a c-clip master link correctly they work just fine.
On a dirt bike you do have to keep an eye on wear, same time your looking at the chain post ride maintenance, check the link. The chain side plates get worn as that pass through the chain guide. On high hour chains in muddy / sandy conditions, the c-clip can wear excessively and need a replacement.
Having never had a C-clip Master link fail .. the benefits out weight the perceived, story-ed, faults I've never personally seen. To each his own.
skokievtr if you have personally seen a failed c clip master link, I would love to see pictures if you have um...and tell us how it was installed, using what tools, pic of the installed link,or what ever you have... Thanks
From 10-60 HP dirt bikes, to 45-160 HP Street bikes, to much more then 60 HP track bikes I own now or have owned, ridden for 35 years or so and hundreds I've worked on over the years.. clip type master links have worked without failure.
Common failures are seen from ham fisted install methods, c- clip back wards, or damaged upon install are common.
If a user can install a c-clip master link correctly they work just fine.
On a dirt bike you do have to keep an eye on wear, same time your looking at the chain post ride maintenance, check the link. The chain side plates get worn as that pass through the chain guide. On high hour chains in muddy / sandy conditions, the c-clip can wear excessively and need a replacement.
Having never had a C-clip Master link fail .. the benefits out weight the perceived, story-ed, faults I've never personally seen. To each his own.
skokievtr if you have personally seen a failed c clip master link, I would love to see pictures if you have um...and tell us how it was installed, using what tools, pic of the installed link,or what ever you have... Thanks
A clip master link is just as strong as a staked one along the lenght of the chain... Ie it has nothing, what-so-ever to do with Hp... Nothing... I can prove that with mathematics... So 6-60-160-660 Hp doesn't matter, clip or staked works just fine...
The reason is that the chain is made of two sideplates, and they are taking the longitudinal loads, not the clip... Once they start to buckle under the load and deform, then the clip will break in an instant... And the same goes for the staked mushroom, neither are intended to withstand loads in that direction/magnitude...
On a clip master you have the potential to weaken the clip in installation if done incorrectly, and the obvious sumb-*** move of putting the clip on backwards... On a staked master, incorrect staking will increase wear, and casue failure, much the same way... I'd call that a draw, do it right and it's not an issue...
A clip master chain is however much less resistant to wear... Again, maths... You have parts that can move around somewhat more than on a staked chain, that increases wear... You have a pin that has a smaller diameter for the clip groove, that reduces strength and by that wear resistance... You have a second thin layer that can catch grime that increases wear in the master link...
There is however one area where the clip master is severely weaker than the staked master... Side loads... Like for instance if your two sprockets are out of alignment...
If you put a sideload on a staked master link you will wear out the pin at about the same time as you will on any other link in that chain... But you will have problems with an uneven chain and other odd behaviour long before it becomes dangerous...
Put a side load on the clip master and long before you get other side effects the clip will fail, since it's not designed to take that load... The result is a popped of clip, and a chain that's slipping apart... Could be pretty dangerous...
So... On a bike that you swap gearing on frequently... Race/track bike, cross, whatever... A clip master link not only makes sense, but is just as safe, regardless of Hp... The reason is that every time you swap something, you will also check the tension/alignment/wear of that chain and clip and replace the clip after several swaps as it wears...
On a roadbike that you check less frequently... Ie like most normal riders, to seldom... Go for a staked master link... It's more wear resistant... Period...
But it comes down to one thing, nothing else is a proven variable (not Hp, not torque, not rpms)... How often do you check your chain?
09-01-2010, 07:58 AM
#11
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I have this: http://www.mikesxs.net/products-7.html?category_id=7.1
It's super heavy duty and not too expensive.
If you're discarding the old chain and have a Dremel-type tool I think it's just easier to cut the end of one of the pins off to remove the old chain.
It's super heavy duty and not too expensive.
If you're discarding the old chain and have a Dremel-type tool I think it's just easier to cut the end of one of the pins off to remove the old chain.
09-01-2010, 08:27 AM
#12
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To remove the endless chain without breaking it and after taking out the rear wheel just simply drop the front footpeg hanger to allow it to pass out from the swing arm.
Rivet up the chain into an endless chain at your convenience on the workbench in a vice etc. and slot it in.
(just remember to retorque up correctly the swingarm nut!)
Easy peasy!
Rivet up the chain into an endless chain at your convenience on the workbench in a vice etc. and slot it in.
(just remember to retorque up correctly the swingarm nut!)
Easy peasy!
09-01-2010, 09:15 AM
#13
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I used a dremel to cut the rivet head off and then pushed it out with a punch. Easy off. I took the bike to a shop to have them crimp the new rivet. they only charged 10 bucks. I figure there's no reason to get a tool unless I plan to do more than 10 chains.
As for the master link debate. Everyone has opinions. Mine is that a clip is just fine. I run them on my track bike and have never had a problem. I've heard and read similar comments from others. Perhaps it's just because we know how to align the rear tire to eliminate side load on the chain.
As for the master link debate. Everyone has opinions. Mine is that a clip is just fine. I run them on my track bike and have never had a problem. I've heard and read similar comments from others. Perhaps it's just because we know how to align the rear tire to eliminate side load on the chain.
09-01-2010, 09:20 AM
#14
Out of my mind, back in 5
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I used a dremel to cut the rivet head off and then pushed it out with a punch. Easy off. I took the bike to a shop to have them crimp the new rivet. they only charged 10 bucks. I figure there's no reason to get a tool unless I plan to do more than 10 chains.
As for the master link debate. Everyone has opinions. Mine is that a clip is just fine. I run them on my track bike and have never had a problem. I've heard and read similar comments from others. Perhaps it's just because we know how to align the rear tire to eliminate side load on the chain.
As for the master link debate. Everyone has opinions. Mine is that a clip is just fine. I run them on my track bike and have never had a problem. I've heard and read similar comments from others. Perhaps it's just because we know how to align the rear tire to eliminate side load on the chain.
09-01-2010, 09:30 AM
#15
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While I agree with Tweety's principles entirely that there shouldn't be a difference, I have to say that in my experience, clip wear must have become an issue and I won't be going back to clip style anytime soon. I was running a good high-tensile x-ring chain (DID if I recall) on my turbo'd bandit. I was also running a scott oiler and was pretty meticulous about checking chain tension. Granted the chain had been on the bike for about 10k miles, on a bike that could easily pop 200+hp and 130 lb/ft of torque to the rear wheel, but it still let go one day (fortunately pushing distance from my house. Amazingly, it didn't bust through the cases, so I got lucky. On the Superhawk, it probably doesn't matter, but on principle, I won't chance it again, and own an RK tool/press.
09-01-2010, 09:56 AM
#16
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Since I only plan on using D.I.D chains, I bought the D.I.D tool. I got it for 1/2 price through a friend. It was my first time replacing a chain (3 previous bikes were shaft drive), and I just took my time and all went well.
I used my Dremel with a cut off disc to cut through the side plates on the old stock chain, which was trashed. It took about 30 seconds per side, max.
Next time I'll buy a cut to length chain though. I wasn't crazy about grinding off a rivet head on the new chain, even after taping it.
I used my Dremel with a cut off disc to cut through the side plates on the old stock chain, which was trashed. It took about 30 seconds per side, max.
Next time I'll buy a cut to length chain though. I wasn't crazy about grinding off a rivet head on the new chain, even after taping it.
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