bad news...plese help
 

on a poker run about half way threw the day.(10-11am) my exhaust mid pipe came undone. right after the Xover on the drivers side of the bike. as we were in between stops. i looked down and saw that all i had to do is put it back on. so i thought i could limp her to the next stop and i could fix it and stay with the pack. it was about ten minutes of riding when bad things happen.

as i was riding all of the sudden i heard this loud knocking noise. seemed to me coming from the front cylinder. as i was in a pack of riders i had to merge right and brake. this took about 15 to 30 seconds. the bike has 22k miles and i believe the motor is stock, with two brothers slip ons, may be jetted. i shut it right down. had to get it towed to my friends place. when i tried to turn it over it got about a half a turn and now nothing. i assume something in the motor failed.

where should i start? no oil was leaking out. everything is still in tacked. i just changed the oil about 200 miles ago.

how do i diagnose what the problem is?

thanks
chris

Search CCT! Sounds like you may have had a failure of a cam chain tensioner, which basically grenades one of your cylinders. Lots of info on the subject on here. Sorry for your "loss"!

^what he said.

Did you still have the stock CCT's?

Hoping nothing major happened. But doesn't sound good. Try turning the engine over by hand see if it's locking up.

Yes stock cct.

How can I tell if my cct failed

At this point I'd pull the valve covers and see what the chain slack is like and also check the valve clearances. If the valve clearance is way outta spec or If you can't turn the engine over by hand that also indicates bent valves.

At that point you will have to pull the head and assess the situation.

Do not attempt to start the engine before figuring out what's wrong.

How do I check the chain slack ? Can I take the valve cover off without disassembly of the plastics? As I think I heard the knocking coming from the front cylinder. I'll start there.

Now if only one went do I rebuild the one cylinder or both. Or should I just go ahead and get a hole used motor.

You are going to have to remove the plastics.

As for if you just need the front cylinder/head work or complete motor work depends on th results of further diagnosing.

The chain slack, just look for excessive slack after you remove the valve cover and top chain guide. Also check the cam timing.

The entire front cowl & fairings should slide off forward of the bike with minimal effort:

2 body clips inside, bottom corner of radiators
4 hex head bolts (2 each side)
4 bolts for the mirrors
Pop 4x turn signal connectors
Pop 2x electrical connectors in the front (headlight & blinkers)

Then roll & slide the whole plastic body forward and off the bike. Not too bad.

Then take the center cap off of the stator cover which give you access to the stator bolt which you can use to manually turn the engine over by hand, I think its a 17mm bolt.


It will be easier to turn the engine over by hand if you remove the spark plugs, just make sure to mark the plugs front and rear so you can take a look see to determine which cylinder failed.


You mentioned that your exhaust came apart at the Y junction and you drove the bike for sometime like this and she started knocking then locked up...


I am thinking you may have blown the rings off one of the pistons and seized the cylinder do to the lack of back pressure.


And I would not purchase a used motor just yet until you have figured out what failed, the only thing that would discourage me on a rebuild would be bad CCT sprockets on the crank or stretched CCT chains because I think you have to split the cases to fix those parts.


Keep us posted so we can see what your doing and take a bunch of digital photos of the tear down and load them on a laptop so you can go picture to picture when your rebuilding the motor...


SIRR1

That's a loonnngg shot IMHO. Knowing the vulnerability of the OE cct, my bet is on that. Headers didn't come loose and in my years on this forum, I can't recall of ever hearing of ring failure. Follow here and look for a loose chain on one of your cylinders (or find someone who can do the work for you). Let us know what you find Chris.

+1

At worst you will have a couple of bent valves on the front cylinder. At best your timing has slipped a couple of teeth and you will have to re-align the timing. I would have though you have bent valves though as you turned the bike over after getting towed back. It sounds bad but it's no biggie if you confident with the spanners.

You will have to remove the front cylinder head once you have confirmed bent valves by checking for excess valve clearances. You will need to get you head around the timming on these bikes for clearnces and/or removing the head. If you dont want to mess around with removing and replacing valves then you could purchase a good used front cylinder head and transplant it straight on. Either way you going to have to get your head around the timing on these bikes. I suggest you fit manual CCTs at the same time so this don't happen again.

(:-})

I don't know. I think folks around here are a tiny bit trigger happy with engine teardowns and mortaging the kids.

There have been dead batteries diagnosed as exploded ccts or cracked cranks.

At LEAST put your exhaust back together. I mean the OP hasnt said a word about it in 5 days.

You may very well be right.

Exhaust is most likely just a loose/broken clamp...no biggie.

Coincecedence that this has happened at the same time as the exhaust but it cries out front tensioner as a likely cause.

There must be some bad doctors in the house then LOL The thing is we can only diagnose as well as the syptoms that are described. It can be difficult at times, especially if someone is not very good and describing things accurately. I suppose the OP could have got it completely wrong and the knocking is not from the front and is actully the exhaust knocking but the bike would still run.

(:-})

as recommended i took a look into the valve heads. as i started with the rear first. all appears to be well. the cct was pushing on the chain.

on to the front...things dont look as good on the front. there is slack on the chain. i couldnt move the back chain by hand. i noticed the cct doesnt seem to be pushing as much on the front as the rear, per visual inspection. i pushed on the chain and it did seem to move more on the front then the back.

now that i know i have a front cylinder cct malfunction(what i think), do i pull the head and go with further inspection ?

Check valve clearance

Check cam timing. If the cams skipped a tooth or more, your probably going to be pulling that cyl.

as i got the motor out late the other night i turned it over by hand and it will turn over but... on the exhaust side of the valves are making horrible noises. sounds very different then the rear cylinder.

i have not had a chance to check the timing. that is next on the list.

any help or ideas would be great, what do you guys think ?

it looks like i have to take the head off to inspect the valves and piston. as i am new to this i am unsure on how to do this. i dont want to tear it all apart and mess something up more then it already is.

please any info would be great

Where do you live? Maybe someone local can help you out.

NY near the Canadian border....closest place to me Is Syracuse at 3 hours away

Any bike shops around? By studying you can do it but it would be helpful to have someone who knows the ropes at least guide you

I have a buddy who is helping me, he worked at the local honda dealer but he has never got into the Vtwins.

If you wind up replacing the head, consider replacing the cam chain too, or at least give it a thorough inspection

After I replaced my head following a MCCT failure, the cam chain broke 1/2 mile down the road. High comp pistons and high lift cams may have made my situation uniquely worse though.

There is a good picture thread on the British Firestorm forum about setting up the cam chain tension using the factory timing marks.

is there a honda service in watertown?

I'm trying to keep the cost down. I have a tight budget.

Well, CCT failed, so your valves will be bent (probably exhaust ones). Which means that really you just need to inspect the piston (most cases this is fine; some people find that it is pretty dinged up which means full bottom end rebuild or a new motor). If the piston is fine, you can either replace the head (special tools: torque wrench and patience) or replace the valves (Additional special tools: valve spring puller, valve cutting tool, even more patience and general skill). IMO a used head off of E-bay will save a bit of headache and time for most garage mechanics.

You will also need a new head gasket (not cheap), new copper exhaust gasket(s) (cheap) and new CCT. Just prepping you for all the costs involved with the project. In reality it's not all that hard to replace a head, but it does take some time and there are quite a few steps involved.

Got the head off and this is what I found. Piston appears to be fine. Exhaust side valves are bent. What is the best approach to fixing her ?

Picture of piston

I'd buy a good used head, gaskets, new CCT and reassemble and go :draggin: and :wheelie: