View Poll Results: Do you feel the U.S. government had involvement in the 'attacks' on 9/11?
YES
16
30.19%
NO
37
69.81%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll
Did the U.S. Gov. have a hand in 9/11?
12-11-2008, 02:47 PM
#31
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Yeah... and the odd thing is that with all that happening there is no debree... Not one piece of airplane left... So Ok, the fire consumes all the aircraft... yeah, all the aircraft that hits inside the hole... but some part somewhere would have been thrown clear... Show me that part and I'll belive...
The frangible bullet is a solid shape, no wings or engines hanging of the side...
The frangible bullet is a solid shape, no wings or engines hanging of the side...
12-11-2008, 03:18 PM
#32
I could ride in
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http://www.911investigations.net/IMG/pdf/doc-1004.pdf
I wasn't there but a friend was and he said there was only one piece that he saw that was obvious aircraft skin and had paint on it; everything else was debris not able to be discerned by the mark one eyeball from the building. Remarkable, yes; impossible, no. 5 layer building swallowed up all debris, did not penetrate all the way through.
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Here's a conspiracy worth investigating...
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Here's a conspiracy worth investigating...
Last edited by LineArrayNut; 12-11-2008 at 03:56 PM.
12-11-2008, 04:35 PM
#33
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Oh wow, I just came home form work and saw this thread. My headache got ten times worse as I was reading.
A missile? How many of the people who make this claim have actually shot a missile at anything or seen the damage in person?
What happened to the 100+ people that took off on that flight that morning? Did the freaking government take the airplane to area 51 and send them all into outerspace just so they could use a missile that would would be INCREDIBLY hard to cover up. The guy that signed for the missile from storage, the guy that loaded the missile, the guy that programed the missile, they guy that fired the missile, the small army of people who went to the pentagon right after the explosion and cleaned up the missile debris. The HUNDREDS of paid actors that swear they watched a plane hit the building.
Gimme a freaking break...
A missile? How many of the people who make this claim have actually shot a missile at anything or seen the damage in person?
What happened to the 100+ people that took off on that flight that morning? Did the freaking government take the airplane to area 51 and send them all into outerspace just so they could use a missile that would would be INCREDIBLY hard to cover up. The guy that signed for the missile from storage, the guy that loaded the missile, the guy that programed the missile, they guy that fired the missile, the small army of people who went to the pentagon right after the explosion and cleaned up the missile debris. The HUNDREDS of paid actors that swear they watched a plane hit the building.
Gimme a freaking break...
12-11-2008, 07:03 PM
#34
Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 219
Oh wow, I just came home form work and saw this thread. My headache got ten times worse as I was reading.
A missile? How many of the people who make this claim have actually shot a missile at anything or seen the damage in person?
What happened to the 100+ people that took off on that flight that morning? Did the freaking government take the airplane to area 51 and send them all into outerspace just so they could use a missile that would would be INCREDIBLY hard to cover up. The guy that signed for the missile from storage, the guy that loaded the missile, the guy that programed the missile, they guy that fired the missile, the small army of people who went to the pentagon right after the explosion and cleaned up the missile debris. The HUNDREDS of paid actors that swear they watched a plane hit the building.
Gimme a freaking break...
A missile? How many of the people who make this claim have actually shot a missile at anything or seen the damage in person?
What happened to the 100+ people that took off on that flight that morning? Did the freaking government take the airplane to area 51 and send them all into outerspace just so they could use a missile that would would be INCREDIBLY hard to cover up. The guy that signed for the missile from storage, the guy that loaded the missile, the guy that programed the missile, they guy that fired the missile, the small army of people who went to the pentagon right after the explosion and cleaned up the missile debris. The HUNDREDS of paid actors that swear they watched a plane hit the building.
Gimme a freaking break...
Hey! reason and common sense have no place in this thread! You are one of them! +1 on your headache. like i said before, anyone think that terrorists flew 2 planes into the world trade and another into the pentagon? or are we going with the theory that Bush shot a missile from a UFO at the WTC because JFK and Jimmy Hoffa came back as zombies and were infecting the 13th floor?
12-11-2008, 07:09 PM
#35
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My problem with these sorts of conspiracy theories, is the people who believe them tend to believe EVERY SINGLE other conspiracy theory too. Was the moon landing faked too? It really says more about the people who believe it than the theory itself.
I also believe the government is inept and incapable of coordinationing and intentionally controlling people in such a way. They can't even manage themselves.
Usually the simplest explanation is the most likely. Some people don't like believing simple (and boring) explanations though. Which is why newscasts are one-sided and sensationalized, and why Al Gore's movies are more popular than the truth.
I also believe the government is inept and incapable of coordinationing and intentionally controlling people in such a way. They can't even manage themselves.
Usually the simplest explanation is the most likely. Some people don't like believing simple (and boring) explanations though. Which is why newscasts are one-sided and sensationalized, and why Al Gore's movies are more popular than the truth.
12-11-2008, 07:30 PM
#36
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How about all the people on the planes who talked with their loved ones before they died & told them about the terrorists? Were they a part of the plot to fool the rest of us? Just not believable.
Plus it just doesn't make sense. Something like this would involve the complicity of dozens or hundreds of people willing to deceive their fellow citizens. And the probability of such a plot being exposed would be too great a risk to chance. I mean what if any of those people had a simple change of heart & decided to reveal the truth? Too risky. The simple truth is that Islamic terrorists have done this in other parts of the world & they did it here.
Plus it just doesn't make sense. Something like this would involve the complicity of dozens or hundreds of people willing to deceive their fellow citizens. And the probability of such a plot being exposed would be too great a risk to chance. I mean what if any of those people had a simple change of heart & decided to reveal the truth? Too risky. The simple truth is that Islamic terrorists have done this in other parts of the world & they did it here.
Last edited by L8RGYZ; 12-11-2008 at 07:36 PM.
12-11-2008, 08:42 PM
#37
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Wanna know the truth, travel 2/3 the way across the country, visit the FDNY and ask them their opinion. I'm sure you'll find a number of them that barely escaped with their lives.
Imply to them that the Government killed or had any part in killing 343 New York Firefighters and see what kind of reaction you get.
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
12-12-2008, 03:47 AM
#39
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Posts: 286
allright i slept on this and i have come to the conclusion that the united states goverment is probally only quilty of not being prepared. and i refuse to believe that my uncle sam would kill thousands in the middle of NY. all this nonsence about the gov is just that bullshit. and as far as i can tell i see no evidence to prove otherwise. when the goverment starts killing us for their own purposes then it sould be alot more transparent. like tanks in the streets and foot soldiers slaughtering the masses.
12-12-2008, 04:26 AM
#40
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In the late 1990s I saw a series of shows on "Nightline" where all the "terrorism" experts, the wizards of smart, in and out of government proclaimed it was a question of "when not if" we'd be hit.
I realized it was true 'cause the FedGov's dedication to so called "free trade", open borders welfare subsidized wetback labor and other New World Order Bullshit took priority over securing America for Americans.
I don't believe the Alex Jones/Rosie O'Donut thesis that explosives were planted in the towers, or a bomb in the Pentagon.
I know this;
America has borders, but seven years after 9/11, those borders are not secured.
America has immigration laws. Seven years after 9/11, those immigration laws aren't being enforced.
19 hijackers were in this country illegally, 'cause nobody in the FedGov cares to track and apprehend those whose visas have expired.
19 illegal alien hijackers were able to board airplanes ONLY because they had valid American driver's licenses.
Seven years after 9/11 has George "war on turrur" Bush ever asked for a federal law requiring prove of legality to obtain a driver's license? Nope.
Did the "conservative" GOP House or Senate ever pass such a law? Nope.
What about the Dems in congress or the "President elect", ever support such a law? Nope.
3000 persons a day, identity and intention unknown, are permitted to wander into our country every day. Tens of millions of foreign national illegal aliens, identity and intention unknown, are permitted to live among us.
G.W. MORON says "family values don't stop at the Rio Grande". Neither do rapists, murderers, drunk drivers, heroin smugglers or terrorists.
The FedGov didn't have to "do" 9/11, it just had to stand around with its thumb up its *** and wait for it to happen.
I realized it was true 'cause the FedGov's dedication to so called "free trade", open borders welfare subsidized wetback labor and other New World Order Bullshit took priority over securing America for Americans.
I don't believe the Alex Jones/Rosie O'Donut thesis that explosives were planted in the towers, or a bomb in the Pentagon.
I know this;
America has borders, but seven years after 9/11, those borders are not secured.
America has immigration laws. Seven years after 9/11, those immigration laws aren't being enforced.
19 hijackers were in this country illegally, 'cause nobody in the FedGov cares to track and apprehend those whose visas have expired.
19 illegal alien hijackers were able to board airplanes ONLY because they had valid American driver's licenses.
Seven years after 9/11 has George "war on turrur" Bush ever asked for a federal law requiring prove of legality to obtain a driver's license? Nope.
Did the "conservative" GOP House or Senate ever pass such a law? Nope.
What about the Dems in congress or the "President elect", ever support such a law? Nope.
3000 persons a day, identity and intention unknown, are permitted to wander into our country every day. Tens of millions of foreign national illegal aliens, identity and intention unknown, are permitted to live among us.
G.W. MORON says "family values don't stop at the Rio Grande". Neither do rapists, murderers, drunk drivers, heroin smugglers or terrorists.
The FedGov didn't have to "do" 9/11, it just had to stand around with its thumb up its *** and wait for it to happen.
12-12-2008, 07:16 AM
#44
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You would probably get some agreement from these guys if you implied that the government played a part in the events of 9/11.
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
Yep, looked at the site. On the main page, it says it was started by Erik Lawyer a SEATTLE firefighter. Other comment is from a retired SEATTLE firefighter.
Didn't find any comments from FDNY firefighters. It's a site for the conspirators to post and try to get a petition passed, because they think that is what is needed/wanted.
12-12-2008, 07:18 AM
#45
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I wasn't there but a friend was and he said there was only one piece that he saw that was obvious aircraft skin and had paint on it; everything else was debris not able to be discerned by the mark one eyeball from the building. Remarkable, yes; impossible, no. 5 layer building swallowed up all debris, did not penetrate all the way through.
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Here's a conspiracy worth investigating...
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Here's a conspiracy worth investigating...
Our new WHITE President. He definitely could be a huge conspiracy theory, if you so choose to believe.
He is an American, correct? PROVE IT!
12-12-2008, 08:10 AM
#46
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Damn well put RK1. Amazing facts you enumerated. To see all of that together just makes you realize how little our elected officials do to support the nation. Too bad our leaders don't realize that IT REALLY IS ABOUT MORE THAN JUST POLITICS.
12-12-2008, 10:19 AM
#47
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
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Here's about 200 eyewitness accounts of the crash into a pentagon with links to their source. Most of the links are long dead by now though.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...sses/bart.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...sses/bart.html
Last edited by CentralCoaster; 12-12-2008 at 10:33 AM.
12-12-2008, 10:31 AM
#48
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The "government is incompetent" explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny, either. FBI agent Robert Wright tried to warn of imminent terrorist attacks before 9/11. All he got for his trouble was a gag order, a demotion and an investigation by the FBI into himself. Robert Wright, like Colleen Rowley, knew what was going on and tried to do the right thing but was prevented by his superiors from doing so. That's not incompetence, it's complicity.
By the way, Osama bin Laden's FBI most wanted poster does not mention 9/11, although it does mention his indictment for the 1998 Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania for which he was indicted within weeks of the bombings. An FBI spokesman said that 9/11 isn't mentioned on OBL's most wanted poster because there is no evidence connecting him with 9/11.
By the way, Osama bin Laden's FBI most wanted poster does not mention 9/11, although it does mention his indictment for the 1998 Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania for which he was indicted within weeks of the bombings. An FBI spokesman said that 9/11 isn't mentioned on OBL's most wanted poster because there is no evidence connecting him with 9/11.
"A veteran FBI agent Thursday charged that corruption inside the bureau derailed investigations that could have averted the terrorist attacks on America on Sept. 11. His lawyers said the FBI had evidence that the World Trade Center was a possible terrorist target. In a memo written 91 days before Sept. 11, Special Agent Robert G. Wright Jr. warned that Americans would die as a result of the FBI's failure to investigate terrorists living in this country. Wright went public at a press conference even though FBI Director Robert Mueller ordered him to stay in Chicago and threatened him with criminal prosecution if he spoke publicly about the agency's wrongdoing.... 'Knowing what I know,' Wright continued, 'I can confidently say that until the investigative responsibilities for terrorism are transferred from the FBI, I will not feel safe.' ... Even worse, he said, there is 'virtually no effort on the part of the FBI’s International Terrorism Unit to neutralize known and suspected terrorists residing in the United States.... By phone from his law office in Chicago, Wright’s lead attorney, David Schippers, who represented the House Judiciary Committee in its impeachment of Bill Clinton, chided the FBI for dropping the ball in dealing with domestic and international radical Islamic "charities" that were laundering money on American soil through U.S. financial institutions and other channels....When Wright attempted to travel to Washington on his own time during the week after Sept. 11, to meet with members of Congress about the FBI’s incompetence and dereliction of duty regarding terrorism, his attorneys were threatened by the Justice Department, which oversees the bureau....The Judicial Watch counsel said the FBI did have intelligence about terrorist activity planned against the World Trade Center and 'other monuments.'"
Agent: FBI Could Have Prevented 9-11
NewsMax, 31 May 2002
"Beginning in 1998 and continuing into the summer of 2001, the Intelligence Community received a modest, but relatively steady, stream of intelligence reporting that indicated the possibility of terrorist attacks within the United States..... the Intelligence Community received information indicating that terrorists were contemplating, among other means of attack, the use of aircraft as weapons. This information did not stimulate any specific Intelligence Community assessment of, or collective U.S. Government reaction to, this form of threat.... Prior to September 11, the Intelligence Community had information linking Khalid Shaykh Mohammed (KSM), now recognized by the Intelligence Community as the mastermind of the attacks, to Bin Ladin, to terrorist plans to use aircraft as weapons, and to terrorist activity in the United States.... the Inquiry confirmed that the Intelligence Community did receive intelligence reporting concerning the potential use of aircraft as weapons.... Some, but apparently not all, of these reports were disseminated within the Intelligence Community and to other agencies... KSM came to the attention of the Intelligence Community as a terrorist in early 1995 when he was linked to Ramzi Yousef’s 'Bojinka Plot' in the Philippines. One portion of that plot involved the idea of crashing an airplane into CIA Headquarters. Through additional intelligence and investigative efforts in 1995, KSM was also connected to the first World Trade Center bombing. He was indicted by a U.S. grand jury in January 1996. The indictment was kept under seal until 1998 while the FBI and CIA attempted to locate him and arrange to take him into custody. Subsequently, indications were received that he might have been involved in the East Africa U.S. Embassy bombings."
REPORT OF THE JOINT INQUIRY INTO THE TERRORIST ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 –
BY THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND THE
SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
24 July 2003
http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpWESSEX/Documents/RobertWright.htm
Agent: FBI Could Have Prevented 9-11
NewsMax, 31 May 2002
"Beginning in 1998 and continuing into the summer of 2001, the Intelligence Community received a modest, but relatively steady, stream of intelligence reporting that indicated the possibility of terrorist attacks within the United States..... the Intelligence Community received information indicating that terrorists were contemplating, among other means of attack, the use of aircraft as weapons. This information did not stimulate any specific Intelligence Community assessment of, or collective U.S. Government reaction to, this form of threat.... Prior to September 11, the Intelligence Community had information linking Khalid Shaykh Mohammed (KSM), now recognized by the Intelligence Community as the mastermind of the attacks, to Bin Ladin, to terrorist plans to use aircraft as weapons, and to terrorist activity in the United States.... the Inquiry confirmed that the Intelligence Community did receive intelligence reporting concerning the potential use of aircraft as weapons.... Some, but apparently not all, of these reports were disseminated within the Intelligence Community and to other agencies... KSM came to the attention of the Intelligence Community as a terrorist in early 1995 when he was linked to Ramzi Yousef’s 'Bojinka Plot' in the Philippines. One portion of that plot involved the idea of crashing an airplane into CIA Headquarters. Through additional intelligence and investigative efforts in 1995, KSM was also connected to the first World Trade Center bombing. He was indicted by a U.S. grand jury in January 1996. The indictment was kept under seal until 1998 while the FBI and CIA attempted to locate him and arrange to take him into custody. Subsequently, indications were received that he might have been involved in the East Africa U.S. Embassy bombings."
REPORT OF THE JOINT INQUIRY INTO THE TERRORIST ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 –
BY THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND THE
SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
24 July 2003
http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpWESSEX/Documents/RobertWright.htm
12-12-2008, 10:36 AM
#49
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SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,802
Here's about 200 eyewitness accounts of the crash into a pentagon with links to their source. Most of the links are long dead by now though.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...sses/bart.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...sses/bart.html
12-12-2008, 06:08 PM
#54
mildly retarded
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Location: Denver, CO
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"Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one."
this quote was in the third account on the list (from many).......so now the pentagon stores tanks full of jet fuel and propane on the premises??? you have to read between the lines with this one.
this quote was in the third account on the list (from many).......so now the pentagon stores tanks full of jet fuel and propane on the premises??? you have to read between the lines with this one.
12-12-2008, 06:19 PM
#56
mildly retarded
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this is a great one:
As I came up along the Pentagon I saw helicopters. (...) it was headed straight for the building. It made no sense. (...) A huge jet. Then it was gone. A massive hole in the side of the Pentagon gushed smoke. The noise was beyond description. The smell seemed to singe the inside of my nose. The earth seemed to stop shaking for a second, but then sirens began and the ground seemed to shake again - this time from the incoming barrage of firetrucks, police cars. military vehicles. (...) I called my boss. I had no memory of how to work my cellphone. I hit redial and his number came up. "Something hit the Pentagon. It must have been a helicopter." I knew that wasn't true, but I heard myself say it. I heard myself believe it, if only for a minute. "Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts?" That's the conversation I had with myself on the way to work. It made sense this morning. I swear that it did. (....) I finally cleared my head enough to drive and spent hours getting home. I spent an eternity in my car. I couldn't roll up the windows, the car smelled like the Inferno. Concrete dust coats the outside of the car, turning it a weird color. Eventually I got back here, back to the place I should have stayed in the first place. There seems to be no footage of the crash, only the site. The gash in the building looks so small on TV. The massiveness of the structure lost in the tight shots of the fire. There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building. I want them to find it whole, wedged between floors or something. I know that isn't going to happen, but right now I pretend. I want to see footage of the crash. I want to make it make sense. I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute, but I don't think that's going to happen. I don't want to see footage of the crash. It seems so unhealthy to see the planes in NY crash over and over. To see the building fall again and again. I saw it once, the Pentagon is shambles. I don't know that I want to see the crash ever again. Even the pictures of the blaze are too much right now as the firefighters try to contain it. It's weird to watch it on TV while the same smoke drifts by your windows. I've showered and showered. Ultimately, I think I'm going to throw away my clothes. I don't think the smell will ever come out. I've reached my parents. My brother is already on a Classified assignment. Who the hell knows where he is. I'm assuming he's safe. I have no idea. Posted by skarlet at September 11, 2001 08:41 PM
As I came up along the Pentagon I saw helicopters. (...) it was headed straight for the building. It made no sense. (...) A huge jet. Then it was gone. A massive hole in the side of the Pentagon gushed smoke. The noise was beyond description. The smell seemed to singe the inside of my nose. The earth seemed to stop shaking for a second, but then sirens began and the ground seemed to shake again - this time from the incoming barrage of firetrucks, police cars. military vehicles. (...) I called my boss. I had no memory of how to work my cellphone. I hit redial and his number came up. "Something hit the Pentagon. It must have been a helicopter." I knew that wasn't true, but I heard myself say it. I heard myself believe it, if only for a minute. "Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts?" That's the conversation I had with myself on the way to work. It made sense this morning. I swear that it did. (....) I finally cleared my head enough to drive and spent hours getting home. I spent an eternity in my car. I couldn't roll up the windows, the car smelled like the Inferno. Concrete dust coats the outside of the car, turning it a weird color. Eventually I got back here, back to the place I should have stayed in the first place. There seems to be no footage of the crash, only the site. The gash in the building looks so small on TV. The massiveness of the structure lost in the tight shots of the fire. There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building. I want them to find it whole, wedged between floors or something. I know that isn't going to happen, but right now I pretend. I want to see footage of the crash. I want to make it make sense. I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute, but I don't think that's going to happen. I don't want to see footage of the crash. It seems so unhealthy to see the planes in NY crash over and over. To see the building fall again and again. I saw it once, the Pentagon is shambles. I don't know that I want to see the crash ever again. Even the pictures of the blaze are too much right now as the firefighters try to contain it. It's weird to watch it on TV while the same smoke drifts by your windows. I've showered and showered. Ultimately, I think I'm going to throw away my clothes. I don't think the smell will ever come out. I've reached my parents. My brother is already on a Classified assignment. Who the hell knows where he is. I'm assuming he's safe. I have no idea. Posted by skarlet at September 11, 2001 08:41 PM
12-12-2008, 06:37 PM
#57
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SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 2,455
"Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one."
this quote was in the third account on the list (from many).......so now the pentagon stores tanks full of jet fuel and propane on the premises??? you have to read between the lines with this one.
this quote was in the third account on the list (from many).......so now the pentagon stores tanks full of jet fuel and propane on the premises??? you have to read between the lines with this one.
12-12-2008, 06:46 PM
#58
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But beyond all that. No one will answer my biggest question.
How do you get rid of a plane full of people without a trace other than crashing it? And why do that just to use something else when you had a perfectly good plane that would do just fine?
How do you get rid of a plane full of people without a trace other than crashing it? And why do that just to use something else when you had a perfectly good plane that would do just fine?
12-12-2008, 10:12 PM
#60
mildly retarded
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,278
really? tanks of jet fuel at the pentagon? an office building?..... listen i'm not tryin to prove without a doubt that the gov did it. I'm simply trying to get you all to see that there are inconsistencies the absolutely exist and need more attention. i don't know what happened there for sure, i've never even been farther east than illinois!
this is a great discussion though!! hey......pass the popcorn!
this is a great discussion though!! hey......pass the popcorn!
