superchicken

Aloha Thumpers-

I have a '99 superhawk that had catastrophic failure after the front CCT broke. The front exhaust valves hit the piston and bent the hell out of them. I pulled it all apart and replaced the valves and installed APE manual CCT's. When I set the timing, the RI/RE cams lined up perfectly when I aligned the index lines on the case and flywheel. When I set the front, it seems like the closest I could get it was when I had the FI/FE lined up to the head but the case index was lined up with the "T" (flywheel has index line " -- , F, T. That sort of seemed to make sense that it was a little past rotation as the cam chain may have stretched a little. When I lined up the two index "lines" it was not as close as it was with the "T". Does this make sense to anyone? When I put it back together it started and I can ride it. But I can hear the valves tapping, I checked the clearance and I was about .050 too high at one cam (manual has a .030 tolerance) I did not shim, no shims, thought I would ride it and see how it felt. Main problem is that between 2000 and 3500 RPM there is a bad stumble/studder/popping/jerk. This only happens when I am at cruising speed with steady throttle or little acceleration. Bike has plenty of power and it doesn't have a problem during idle or rapid acceleration. I want to think it has to do with valve clearance or timing, but it had a bit of this before the melt down, but not as bad. Could this be carborator syncronization problem or maybe some electrical thing? If anyone has any REAL experience with this or knowledge, PLEASE HELP. Not quite sure where to start except back to the valve lifter shims and timing.

Thanks everyone.

Pete187Rock

how many miles you got on that thing? I still got the stock ones on mine and im a little over 16k.

superchicken

I have 25,000 miles on it and I am second owner since 21,000. I highly recommend that you change your CCT's to APE manual ASAP. They can break at any time and it is usually the front one, harder to get at.

Pete187Rock

hmmmm, where can I get these APE manual CCT's and how much are they?

superchicken

Check Ebay, about $100.00.

Pete187Rock

k will do, how bad are the valve adkustments on these. havent done mine yet and i know its shim and bucket.


are all these CCT's one fits all? Saw one for a 929 wasnt sure if it would work or not.

nuhawk

Any parts unlimited dealer can get the APE MCCT's - my Superhawk got parked until these were replaced. I'm at about 16k. Just busy and just busy, I printed Calitoz write-up on the subject and took it to my trusted mechanic. I told him, "I will not only pay you to do the job, I will pay you to read this." I get the bike back tomorrow. Let's hope he has done his homework.

Pete187Rock

Whats there to read? Its 2 bolts to install then tighten them till they are hand tight and thats it. Not hard at all. I cant let mine sit its my only ride so Im hopin it will last. Havent heard any weird noises yet so hopefully they will last till I can get these.

Pete187Rock

I attempted to install my APE MCCT's the other night and some how I think the cams jump a tooth or three. Sounds like a valve is bent so I pulled the carbs and they look straight to me so hopefully I can get it back in time and all is well. I wasnt to amazed at teh APE MCCT's. The one I installed on the front the tension nut came off and the pin broke on it as I was tightening it. Very cheeply made if you ask me and I will never buy another one thats for sure.


ANyone else ran into this issue?

cliby

its easy for the chain to jump if the cams are in the wrong part of the cycle when you loosen the stock CCT- its critical to read, or search through some posts first. someone just did an elaborate knowledge base on the instals I think

cliby

Oh, man, I just scrolled to your next post. see why its important to read! hopefully a valve is not bent - I'm not sure how you ruled it out by looking in the intake ports only. I'd suggest rechecking the cam alignment and while you're at it check the valve clearance - if one is bent it will stay open.

good luck

Pete187Rock

Well the install has already been botched. lol Just wondering if Im lookin at just getting this thing back in time or have I done any damage. I only let it run a few seconds and the knocking was tremendous.

Pete187Rock

Well I looked in both ports and all 4 valves look and appear to be straight. Only way to be sure is to check the valve lash. Ive done these before and usually they are straight forward so it mustve happened when I took the CCT's off because when I put the new ones on I hand tightened them first them turned them in 1/4 turn which shouldve been enough to atleast catch on the chain guide. Then I usually crank it a sec and listen to see what I hear and tighten or loosen accordingly. The loudness wasnt that bad at first as I started on the exhaust one first, once I got that one quiet I moved onto the other one and then it got really loud and I havent crunk it up since. Kind of scared to continue working on it in fear of what I may find out. lol

cliby

good luck. most of the horror stories I've read here are the same and don't recall a lot where people have gotten away without damage. regardless, you have to take both covers off to realign the cams anyway so you can check the valves then. It always happens when loosening the stock CCT - if its not at TDC, there can be tension on the chain and as soon as you loosen it, it jumps. when I rebuilt mine I played around and could watch this happen consistently at lots of different parts of the 4 stroke cycle.

Pete187Rock

WEll if the valve or valves are bent its not dramatic like it sounds. Im hopin its ok but I fear it isnt. I do know it could cause a noise like that if 2 valves are opening at the same time causing one hell of a spark knock but we will see. I can manually turn the motor over and its not binding so that is a good sign. Ill let you know what I find later on when I get the nerve to go **** with it again.

Hawkrider

You may or may not have jumped a tooth, I dunno because you didn't explain your installation procedure very well. If you broke the shear pin on the nut/stem then you were obviously cranking down on it way too hard. These things go finger tight- no ****! Is it bogging down and not wanting to rev? What did you mean when you said you did the exhaust side first? There are two cam chains, one for each head. Each chain operates both intake and exhaust cams.

Pete187Rock

nope, i did jump a few tooth from when I took off the oem ones. I shouldve just replaced the ******* with oem new ones. Not like Im gona be racing it or anything. What the hell was I thinking. It was finger tight and I did a 1/4 turn in. After cranking the motor I heard noise so I went to adjust it in more. Wouldnt have made a difference since the 2 exhaust valves are fucked. Doesnt matter what did or did not happen, manual cam chain tensioners are a waste of time unless your racing. Stupidest mod out there plain and simple. Just replace them with oem ones. Im not saying this because I botched my install, I fucked up, been awhile and forgot to recheck timing but oh well. Gotta order some valves and rebuild the front cylinder. Will be replacing them with oem from here on out thats for sure.

99Hawk

Pete,
Your only problem was pulling the OEM CCTs when the Cyl was NOT at TDC. That's what caused the chain to jump. You would have had the same problem replacing the original CCTs with new OEM CCTs.

Yep - if you put the bolt finger tight - and then "in 1/4" and then again adjusted it "in" - you did over torque the bolt and over tensioned the chain.

Pete187Rock

Im well aware of what I did to **** up the valves and what led to it. Thanks again for reminding me. I didnt blame it on the CCT's manual or oem. Running them in finger tight then a 1/4 and then starting the motor it could get a little more slack in it and you will need to tighten them a tad. I didnt crank on them by any means thats for sure.

Hawkrider

Sorry to hear about it. I still don't understand how the nut broke off if they are only supposed to be finger-tight.

Pete187Rock

what happened was i think one of the threads were bad and required a little more finess to turn and the nut gave way. Its only held on with a dowel.

Anyway i got my head back and need step by step directions to put all this back in time and be done with this.