Water pump weap / inspection hole
12-31-2005, 04:51 PM
#1
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Water pump weap / inspection hole
After running the 02' for about 5 minutes last night to test my new homeade exhaust removal system in my recently heated garage, I noticed a drop of coolant about the size of a pencil eraser directly under the hose that leads to the weap hole on the front of the right crankcase cover. After taking the hose off of the metal nipple at the weap / inspection hole, I observed no additional coolant, and when I blew through the hose no more came out. According to the manual, the presence of any coolant at this hole means the mechanical water pump seal has to be changed. Is the manual the gospel on this one? Has anyone else seen this? Are there other opinions? Should I wait until it gets worse? What are the implications of letting it go like this a while longer?
Thanks for any responses!
Thanks for any responses!
12-31-2005, 05:30 PM
#4
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Be very cautious and precise with the reinstall of the impeller. It must be set to the exact depth spec’ed or it will cause problems.
01-01-2006, 07:35 AM
#5
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Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
Thanks for the advice. I have access to a press at my friend's Kawasaki dealership, and I'm sure they have some type of tool that will fit. My only concern is warping or bending the crankcase cover due to lack of experience. Also, in the manual there is a rather odd diagram showing the placement of gasket sealant on the new casecover gasket - it appears it is telling you to place sealant in a narrow band along the midline of the gasket. Any ideas why or am I interpreting this the wrong way? I also wonder why all the special parts listed in the manual as necessary then say "not available in USA". What causes the seal to go bad? I only have 7500 miles on the bike, and replace the coolant with motocycle specific coolant every year. Should I just look forward to doing this every couple years?
Thanks again for the help!
Thanks again for the help!
01-01-2006, 01:34 PM
#7
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Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
Thanks for the advice. I have access to a press at my friend's Kawasaki dealership, and I'm sure they have some type of tool that will fit. My only concern is warping or bending the crankcase cover due to lack of experience. Also, in the manual there is a rather odd diagram showing the placement of gasket sealant on the new casecover gasket - it appears it is telling you to place sealant in a narrow band along the midline of the gasket. Any ideas why or am I interpreting this the wrong way? I also wonder why all the special parts listed in the manual as necessary then say "not available in USA". What causes the seal to go bad? I only have 7500 miles on the bike, and replace the coolant with motocycle specific coolant every year. Should I just look forward to doing this every couple years?
Thanks again for the help!
Thanks again for the help!
The impeller comes out of the side cover very easy,, the needle on my 12 ton press did not even move. The harder thing is removing the water pump seal from the cover.
There are two tools listed for this repair,, one is the "not available in USA" tool, the other for the same job (installing the seal) is available,, run the tool part number through ronayers,, it should be $38.
NO idea why yours is leaking.. My new to me 1997 SH had under 4k miles on it,, never had fluids changed except oil.. It leaked when I went to look at it and ride.. Bought anyway.. when I tore it down, I found rust on the impeller at the seal area.
If yours is not leaking now.. Leave it.. I’d say.. if it is weeping from the drain.. replace when convenient.
Lastly, to save some money, but ensure the job is done right. You could remove the side cover your self.. and have a Honda shop remove the old and install a new seal. That is the ONLY part of the whole job that is more then simple nuts and bolts wrench turning.
01-01-2006, 03:02 PM
#8
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Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
Thanks again for the imput!
Jschmidt - what are the specifics of this factory bulletin? As a side note, I have noticed each time I change the coolant what appears to be almost microscopic aluminum particulate in the used coolant. No particles are large enough to "grab" if you will, but reflect enough light to make me believe that is what they are. I always assumed this was small pieces left over from the radiator manufacturing process that come loose over time. Have you all seen anything similar; or is that perhaps evidence of the impeller shaft rubbing due to being improperly or crookedly seated?
Bronco78 - I have considered taking the case into the dealer. I just worry that they might not have the right part either, and do some rigged up nonsense that I could have done just as well at home. If I could garuantee taking it to a shop with the right tool and a tech that had done it before, it would almost be a no brainer for me.
Thanks again for the help. I'm always amazed at the responses I get from this site.
Jschmidt - what are the specifics of this factory bulletin? As a side note, I have noticed each time I change the coolant what appears to be almost microscopic aluminum particulate in the used coolant. No particles are large enough to "grab" if you will, but reflect enough light to make me believe that is what they are. I always assumed this was small pieces left over from the radiator manufacturing process that come loose over time. Have you all seen anything similar; or is that perhaps evidence of the impeller shaft rubbing due to being improperly or crookedly seated?
Bronco78 - I have considered taking the case into the dealer. I just worry that they might not have the right part either, and do some rigged up nonsense that I could have done just as well at home. If I could garuantee taking it to a shop with the right tool and a tech that had done it before, it would almost be a no brainer for me.
Thanks again for the help. I'm always amazed at the responses I get from this site.
01-01-2006, 03:26 PM
#9
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 758
Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly. It was a failure during the first few years of production and a fix. Actually, I just noticed that yours is an O2. The problem was fixed by then.
If your water pump or seal was bad, it would be leaking. It would also be likely to be making a noise. Yours doesn't seem to be. One drop really doesn't amount to anything notable or diagnosable.
If it makes you feel better, replace it. But you don't really (yet) have evidence of a problem. If you are really concerned, take it on a good hard ride, possibly blocking off the radiators to get the temp up good. Don't let it overheat, though. :wink: Then examine it for leaks. Put a pan under it and examine it again in the morning.
No evidence, no worries.
If your water pump or seal was bad, it would be leaking. It would also be likely to be making a noise. Yours doesn't seem to be. One drop really doesn't amount to anything notable or diagnosable.
If it makes you feel better, replace it. But you don't really (yet) have evidence of a problem. If you are really concerned, take it on a good hard ride, possibly blocking off the radiators to get the temp up good. Don't let it overheat, though. :wink: Then examine it for leaks. Put a pan under it and examine it again in the morning.
No evidence, no worries.
01-01-2006, 08:57 PM
#10
Moderator
MotoGP
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,553
This was a HUGE problem in the beginning. By huge, I mean blown out of proportions by some of the first new owners. There was even talk on the original US email list of a class action lawsuit for those not under warranty.
My original new 98 did this back in 97 when I bought the first one off the truck to my local dealer. They would typically weep for a while, slow, and then stop.
On my second 98, it had plenty of miles so it didn't do it. I broke the impeller while replacing the cover after a clutch change. I thought the case was hanging on the dowels but it was the impeller not lining up. DOH! File that tidbit of data for future reference. Anyway, I replace the impeller (slightyly different design) and the seal (no diff that I could see) but not the bearing. I used a hammer and appropriate size deep socket to replace them. Micrometer for depth measurement. 4k miles since with no problems.
IMO, this is the poorly thought out design. If you need to change out clutch plates regularly (drag racing), you have to pull the fairing AND drain the coolant AND oil although I think if you left it on the sidestand you could get away without draining the oil.
Wait and see it the weep gets worse.
My original new 98 did this back in 97 when I bought the first one off the truck to my local dealer. They would typically weep for a while, slow, and then stop.
On my second 98, it had plenty of miles so it didn't do it. I broke the impeller while replacing the cover after a clutch change. I thought the case was hanging on the dowels but it was the impeller not lining up. DOH! File that tidbit of data for future reference. Anyway, I replace the impeller (slightyly different design) and the seal (no diff that I could see) but not the bearing. I used a hammer and appropriate size deep socket to replace them. Micrometer for depth measurement. 4k miles since with no problems.
IMO, this is the poorly thought out design. If you need to change out clutch plates regularly (drag racing), you have to pull the fairing AND drain the coolant AND oil although I think if you left it on the sidestand you could get away without draining the oil.
Wait and see it the weep gets worse.
01-05-2006, 09:31 AM
#11
Moderator
MotoGP
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,708
Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
mine just started leaking about month ago... still not a steady stream but enough to dirty up the side of my bike pretty good. i bought my parts from service honda and it cost me about $90. what was the fix for the earlier models?
service honda order
service honda order
01-05-2006, 09:41 AM
#12
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Re: Water pump weap / inspection hole
mine just started leaking about month ago... still not a steady stream but enough to dirty up the side of my bike pretty good. i bought my parts from service honda and it cost me about $90. what was the fix for the earlier models?
service honda order
service honda order
19226-MBB-000 1 GASKET
91201-965-000 1 OIL SEAL (12X22X5)
19217-MAL-300 1 SEAL, MECHANICAL
19210-MBB-000 1 IMPELLER, WATER PUMP
11394-MBT-000 1 GASKET, R. COVER
96100-62003-00 1 BEARING (6200)
This is the parts list needed. (thanks inderocker you made it easy to paste)
Add in 4 qt oil, some coolant and your all set.. You can buy the mech seal installer tool, or make it yourself
Part Number: 07965-415000A
Description: MECHANICAL SEAL INST
Source: HONDA
Price: $23.13
01-05-2006, 09:50 AM
#13
Moderator
MotoGP
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,708
no problem... and so you know... i did shop around and the better deal was at service honda..... ron ayers was a good deal as well but they were still about $10 or more overall.... plus the shipping was twice as much. the website interface isn't as easy at service honda though...
01-05-2006, 11:27 AM
#14
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
You should be happy at that price. I looked everywhere and the only place to buy was from Kawi and the lowest price was $54. Not too expensive but after being nickled and dimed on every other seal and part during the engine rebuild everything hurts.
01-05-2006, 11:34 AM
#15
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01-05-2006, 02:29 PM
#16
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Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
I had a bad first impression of Ron Ayers but it turned out to not be there fault. I ordered a tire they advertised on the site (Dunlop Elite 3 MR90-18 ) for my KZ. A few days later they called to say it was on back order and a week later it was still on back order so I had them refund my money. I was pissed because they went past the estimated arrival date and I really needed the tire but the same thing happened at americanmotorcycletire.com. Turns out Dunlop had added it to its line but hadn't yet been able to create one because of a tooling issue.
Sorry for the long read. The point is Ron Ayers is a good place to buy.
Sorry for the long read. The point is Ron Ayers is a good place to buy.
12-25-2006, 09:23 AM
#17
Member
Squid
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson
Posts: 93
don't forget three other items that will be needed
You will also need an oil drain plug washer, oil filter and coolant drain plug washer......if you want to do it right. I do not believe you should need a new impellor.
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