mduck

Hi, i have done some research on this topic already but would like to get some more advice and or solutions..

Obviously i just bought the bike 3 days ago(98 vtr1000), like most i have read about these things seem to happen to new owners haha

I rode the bike 3 days in a row, started no problem. When i bought the bike the guy said the tach suddently stopped working and the needle et stuck past redline.. (regualtor or rectifier going out was my first thought but no sure..)

After a 2 hours ride yesterday i stopped the bike and with everything turn OFF, a high frequency squeal was coming from the back of the bike i think, i started it again and it stopped, turned it off and it started this high pitched sound like when your ears are ringing.. so i let it be for the night..

Next day get on hit the starter and just hear a clicking buzzing from the started relay ! WTF

put the smart charger on and says the battery is fine, o havent had time to test anything with a multimeter yet. Anyone know if a bad rectifier could cause these types of problems ?

Thanks for the help!

7moore7

What is likely a stock rectifier on a 12 year old bike... I'd start the hunt with the likely issue. Maybe it squealed it's last breath...

mduck

yeah its the stock one i believe,(no cooling fins) my question is could a bad rectifier/reg drain a batterie or prevent a bike from starting this way ? The main reason i think its the stupid rectifier is the tach frying out, unless its just a coincidence ill know in a couple days when the the new R/R is in..

by the way do i have to change the whole clutster for the tach or is it fixable in your opinion?


Thanks

NHSH

Sounds very much like an R/R problem, as 7moore7 said that sounds like the last breath, I think you got lucky without frying the entire electric system.
And yes, if the R/R not working your battery will drain, as if noting charging the battery, which means the bike runs on battery alone till depleted.

mduck

ok cool, i was going to change th R/R anyway but dindt expected to crap out so fast lol!
I hope the batterie is not toast, like i said this happened the next day, the bike never shut off while it was running it just seems like it might be shorting the system somehow and preventing it to turn over, hope the new unit fixes it!

NHSH

If you put the battery on a charger/tender, you may be able charge it back to normal level so you can start it, but don't start it before you change the R/R, you may risk more components.

Wicky

Heed the warning and replace - plus a new battery and hope that nothing else got fried.

mduck

OK, so i replaced the reg/rec with a finned version, still doing the same thing!
Battery tests at 13v so its fine, BUT when i key on battery voltage drops to 8.8 volts ?!
short ??? no blown fuses or anything, im guessing this is no supposed to happen?

What could be drawing current with simply the key at the on position ?
Any ideas what i should check first ?

Thanks

NHSH

Did you charge the battery? It drops way below acceptable volts under load
if it shows 13V it does not mean it will operate under load.
If you cannot charge it, it is done.

mduck

yes i had fully charged it with the charger...
I just removed the starter, cleaned all connections, tested it and it turns fine, put it back on, jumped directly to the starter and bike ran!

Then tryed the start button, just clicking again, boosted at the battery and she fired up...

I guess the old R/R fried the batterie ?

CrankenFine

Probably. I'd use an ammeter to measure what's happening when the key is moved to on. Then by removing fuses one at a time I'd isolate whether there's a short or not before buying a new battery. But that's just me. Good luck with the electrics, hope you're back on the road soon.

mduck

where should i be connecting the ampmeter ? i will try the fuse trick and see if it makes any difference, thanks for the advice

mduck

I pulled the fuses one by one but only checking the voltage and the one that made a difference is the IGN fuse.. but it does run the headlight so i guess its normal that the voltage would drop.

Mersuring the voltage at the starter terminal i was only getting 10v, i will put the charger on overnight and see if i can save this batterie !

CrankenFine

An ammeter always goes in series between source and load. So in this case it goes between a battery terminal and the corresponding battery cable that is normally connected to that terminal. Obviously digital meters will autosense direction of flow, but if you have an older analog meter pay attention to polarity so you don't damage the meter.

PS I use alligator clips instead of probes for this kind of investigation to keep my hands free to pull fuses, write notes etc.

mduck

case closed, battery had 13 v but 5 cca lol, new batterie and she runs like new! thanks for the advice!

mduck

FF******** bike dindt want to start this morning, push started fine and then after 30 mins drving the thing died... chargin system ? just put a new regulator in and the resistance from the chargin coil seems to be at 0.7 volts, it exceeds the 0.5 maximum the manual states but is it really dead ??

What else could cauz it not to charge.. thnaks

mduck

oh and batterie seems to be finished again.. its not taking a charge, ijust bought it 3 days ago!%&*#$@#

CrankenFine

Something is running the battery down, but what?

I'd first check the voltage across the battery terminals with the bike running. The online shop manual here shows the range of voltages you should see at various RPM. It will show no charging or insufficient charging is occurring.

IF either proves to be the case double check every new connection you made.

IF that all checks out, then I'd suspect the new R/R itself or the alternator coil.

But if you see charging indicated in accordance with manual specs, then be looking for any abnormal current draw when the ignition switch is off above what's spec'd for clock and odometer. Hope this helps.

mduck

ok so battery has recharged somewhat over night.. its about at 12.9 volts when on the bench, starts the bike fine.. I checked the terminals with the engine running and only getting 12.15 volts (suposed to be over 13.5 according to the service manual) no matter how much i rev it up ?

So heres what ive gone through so far..
- New R/R (could it be bad already?)
- Startor resistance between wire is 0.7 (manual says 0.5 max) problem ?
- Startor not grounding out on any wires
- Did a draw test with the ammeter and its seems to be in spec (should itry with the key on? )

Im probly going to get a new stator coil because i cant figure out what else could be causing this.. any other components within the charging system im leaving out ?

996thehawk

Use this fault finding guide. I had a similar issue with a new R/R and new Stator. Turned out the Stator went bad after 9 months. This is how I figured it out.

Fault Finding Guide - Motorcycle Electrical Fault Finding Chart - ElectroSport

PS: I am not recommending buying any parts from this company, only using this fault finding guide to find your problem.

mduck

Thanks for the guide, i followed the instructions and according to the results the stator was bad, replaced it, still only charging 12.3 volts no matter what rpm..

New rec, new bat, new stator.. wtf im getting sick of this **** lol

One weird thing, when i do the stator ac output test with the bike running, i get faulty results when its plugged in the harness, and i get good results if i do the test unplugged.. the three yellow wires go directly to the r/r, what am i missing here?

mduck

ok VERY weird
i put the old regulator back on just for the heck of it and it was charging 18v at idle, took off again, stuck the new one back on and its started at 12.7 and climbed and settled at about 13.8
!!?!?!? could it have just been a bad connection with the new regulator ? i will put everything back together and take it for a test drive and see how she goes, i hate these unexplained situations..

996thehawk

I would double check ALL your connections. With the new R/R, did you solder all the wires or use cheap butt connectors? I would also suggest using dielectric grease on all connections. 13.8 is about where mine was when everything got fixed and it's been good ever since.

mduck

i checked thte connections everything is clean.. the new R/R is a direct replacement one, no soldering cutting or anything required, and i did grease the connections.

BUT, when following the troubleshooting guide and testing the R/R i found a short circuit in the new one between two pins! I will return it and order another lol, i am really unlucky with these electrical parts

Tweety

Just keep in mind, with parts like these (electronics), you can very easily break one part with another... So, use a multimeter to check parts, instead of hooking them together and go riding... It's a good way to keep chasing your tail indefinitely...

mduck

yes of course, the first time when i just replaced the rectifier i hadent checked much with a multimeter apart from the charging voltage, this time i whent trought the whole trouble shooting and it indicates that the new reg/rec is bad..

Apart from battery(new), stator (new and within specs) and the regulator and wiring harness im assuming there is no other components to the charging system.

So could a bad stator cauz the regulator to overheat and malfunction?

mduck

Well, sent the regulator back to the supplier (i work at a motorbike shop) and got a new one in, tests out fine now and the bike works nice, charges 14.3 volts..

Did not find any other shorts or problems in the systems, maybe it was in the original stator the whole time!

Ride on

supertim996

i have been going through the exact same thing. i bought a cheap r/r off ebay and a new battery. i did test by the owners manual, but when i checked to see if it was charging at 5000 rpm the numbers weren't jiving with the specs, the volts didn't rise with the rpms. i've rode it for four or five months with no problems.Now the same issues are back.