VTR replacement Shock
04-02-2009, 12:35 PM
#1
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VTR replacement Shock
I just got my replacement shock today. I sent Jamie Daugherty a Honda F4I shock and he replaced the spring with one set to my weight, upgraded the shock valving with components from RaceTech and installed a custom clevis so the shock could be mounted to the Superhawk.
For those of you who haven't seen Jamie's work, I'd like to say its as nice as shown on his website. I can't wait to install it and go for a spin.
Thanks Jamie and good job!
For those of you who haven't seen Jamie's work, I'd like to say its as nice as shown on his website. I can't wait to install it and go for a spin.
Thanks Jamie and good job!
04-03-2009, 08:08 AM
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I believe I paid about $25 for the shock off Ebay. There are a bunch available online today and some around that price. I knew I'd be changing the spring so I wasn't planning on looking for a pristine unit.
Jamie's work was around $400 plus shipping but I believe it depends what you've supplied for a shock and what work you have done. Again, I'm happy because I've got a shock that is setup with a new spring and valve for my weight. Compared to other options available to Superhawk owners it seemed reasonable to me.
You might check with Jamie as to what your cost would be based on what you want done. I remember he posted a price update a bit back but suspect it still depends on your shock model and your options.
Jamie's work was around $400 plus shipping but I believe it depends what you've supplied for a shock and what work you have done. Again, I'm happy because I've got a shock that is setup with a new spring and valve for my weight. Compared to other options available to Superhawk owners it seemed reasonable to me.
You might check with Jamie as to what your cost would be based on what you want done. I remember he posted a price update a bit back but suspect it still depends on your shock model and your options.
04-03-2009, 07:21 PM
#7
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I still don't have that totally worked out yet. The design is there, but the costing came in too high. The prices were indicating something along the lines of $250-275 which I think is too much. Once I get dug out of my backlog I'm going to see what I can do to improve on the prices, but I'm just not there yet.
The cost for the conversion itself is $150 and the spring is another $85 for a total of $235. Dan opted for the RaceTech Gold Valve in the shock (recommended) which is an additional $150. I hope to be able to keep the Gold Valve price that low for a while but probably not forever.
Thanks for posting up the pictures Dan! My wife took my digital camera with her on vacation (I stayed home to work) so I wasn't able to get any before shipping it off to you. If you could post up a couple of the shock installed that would great.
04-03-2009, 07:44 PM
#8
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im telling you guys sumone needs to try the rear shock off a banshee. an aftermarket one is fully adjustable. even the stock one is semi adjustable and has a rezzie. i really would but i have about 25% of my superhawk left.
04-03-2009, 07:45 PM
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Might take a couple of weeks to get the shock in as I just had back surgery and the wife is going to f&*king kill me if she catches me working on the bike again. Actually, she might be onto something as its all I can do to walk upright w/o a grimace just yet.
I'll try to get it installed in a couple of weeks. In the mean time if someone else had received theirs, perhaps they could post a shot or two? If not, I'll make it happen.
I'll try to get it installed in a couple of weeks. In the mean time if someone else had received theirs, perhaps they could post a shot or two? If not, I'll make it happen.
04-03-2009, 08:01 PM
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Actually, this would be more work than it would be worth. It's valving is so far off that it would have to be changed. Since it's a off-road shock the whole thing is setup different. You are better off starting with something that is closer - like a CBR shock. It's got all of the features you mention and are actually cheaper on eBay than Banshee shocks.
04-06-2009, 04:08 AM
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An RC51 shock won't work because not only is not the correct length it's also got a WAY too light spring and valving. There isn't anything that just bolts on, sorry. I know, I sometimes find myself searching for that holy grail part from something else that you can buy for $20, is a direct bolt-on and has the performance and features of aftermarket shock. However, when I return to reality I find that it takes a little bit more work than that.
04-06-2009, 03:56 PM
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The cost for the conversion itself is $150 and the spring is another $85 for a total of $235. Dan opted for the RaceTech Gold Valve in the shock (recommended) which is an additional $150. I hope to be able to keep the Gold Valve price that low for a while but probably not forever.
10-01-2009, 01:45 PM
#17
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Hi! first post here, on an aging thread.
I was looking into something to shore up the rear end on my whale, and found this thread. The piece attached to the F4i shock is interesting--
At first I thought to myself "well that's a bit overdone" assuming that it would be simpler to machine a longer clevis that bolts through the frame. Then I realized that it would change the upper shock mount location, changing the leverage ratio curve. "hmm" I thought. Then I realized that at bottom out the shock would likely be transmitting force into the new clevis at a jaunty angle, and the new clevis would be longer and the bigger moment would strain the piece more. Double "hmm."
I'm glad to see your piece addresses the concerns raised by criticizing your piece.
I was looking into something to shore up the rear end on my whale, and found this thread. The piece attached to the F4i shock is interesting--
At first I thought to myself "well that's a bit overdone" assuming that it would be simpler to machine a longer clevis that bolts through the frame. Then I realized that it would change the upper shock mount location, changing the leverage ratio curve. "hmm" I thought. Then I realized that at bottom out the shock would likely be transmitting force into the new clevis at a jaunty angle, and the new clevis would be longer and the bigger moment would strain the piece more. Double "hmm."
I'm glad to see your piece addresses the concerns raised by criticizing your piece.
10-01-2009, 02:11 PM
#18
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Hi! first post here, on an aging thread.
I was looking into something to shore up the rear end on my whale, and found this thread. The piece attached to the F4i shock is interesting--
At first I thought to myself "well that's a bit overdone" assuming that it would be simpler to machine a longer clevis that bolts through the frame. Then I realized that it would change the upper shock mount location, changing the leverage ratio curve. "hmm" I thought. Then I realized that at bottom out the shock would likely be transmitting force into the new clevis at a jaunty angle, and the new clevis would be longer and the bigger moment would strain the piece more. Double "hmm."
I'm glad to see your piece addresses the concerns raised by criticizing your piece.
I was looking into something to shore up the rear end on my whale, and found this thread. The piece attached to the F4i shock is interesting--
At first I thought to myself "well that's a bit overdone" assuming that it would be simpler to machine a longer clevis that bolts through the frame. Then I realized that it would change the upper shock mount location, changing the leverage ratio curve. "hmm" I thought. Then I realized that at bottom out the shock would likely be transmitting force into the new clevis at a jaunty angle, and the new clevis would be longer and the bigger moment would strain the piece more. Double "hmm."
I'm glad to see your piece addresses the concerns raised by criticizing your piece.
10-01-2009, 04:47 PM
#19
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Rear suspensions are a little tricky, that is for sure. Luckily there are a couple of options out there for us VTR guys, the F4 conversion that I do is just one of them. People often overlook the stock shock, a spring matched to the rider's weight is a great start. The stock shock can also be revalved, which is something that performs really well actually. It's probably not the best for the track, but street riders would be just fine with a setup like that.
The F4 shock offers a higher level of overall performance by design. That shock with a valving upgrade is something I would put up against any aftermarket brand standard shock. The nice part is that those start at about $900, so you can get the same performance for half the price.
The F4 shock offers a higher level of overall performance by design. That shock with a valving upgrade is something I would put up against any aftermarket brand standard shock. The nice part is that those start at about $900, so you can get the same performance for half the price.
10-02-2009, 04:52 AM
#20
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Jamie, I was wondering if you could clear up a small bit of confusion for me.
There was a small difference between the shock lengths in your and tweety’s charts in the other post about the F4i mod’s you do, which one is the correct length and are those measurements center of eye to center of eye.
Thanks
Tweety’s chart
VTR 345mm
F4i 305mm
Your chart,
VTR 345mm
F4i 315mm
There was a small difference between the shock lengths in your and tweety’s charts in the other post about the F4i mod’s you do, which one is the correct length and are those measurements center of eye to center of eye.
Thanks
Tweety’s chart
VTR 345mm
F4i 305mm
Your chart,
VTR 345mm
F4i 315mm
10-02-2009, 06:50 AM
#21
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Rear suspensions are a little tricky, that is for sure. Luckily there are a couple of options out there for us VTR guys, the F4 conversion that I do is just one of them. People often overlook the stock shock, a spring matched to the rider's weight is a great start. The stock shock can also be revalved, which is something that performs really well actually. It's probably not the best for the track, but street riders would be just fine with a setup like that.
The F4 shock offers a higher level of overall performance by design. That shock with a valving upgrade is something I would put up against any aftermarket brand standard shock. The nice part is that those start at about $900, so you can get the same performance for half the price.
The F4 shock offers a higher level of overall performance by design. That shock with a valving upgrade is something I would put up against any aftermarket brand standard shock. The nice part is that those start at about $900, so you can get the same performance for half the price.
I'm trying to figure out what the best plan is for my rear shock. I ride in the street and do not see track days in my future. And I'm on the heftier side - 220lbs. Greg is about to work some magic on my forks, but I expect that will make my shock all that much more annoying.
I rode Greg's bike (he wieghs about what I weigh) and it felt great - well damped, perhaps a bit stiff but still quite compliant. He is set up for track days and has a fox twin clicker.
In any case I had been thinking my best bang for the buck is the F4i mod. What I am looking for is a secure well damped, comfortable setup for the street. I push the pace from time to time, and maybe once in my life I will try a track, but mostly I want comfort for quick secondary road travel.
So, what's the best way to achieve this? Assuming a $400 budget but no desire to spend all that if i don't have to, do I have the stock shock modded or go with the F4i set up?
10-02-2009, 08:22 AM
#22
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I'm not Jamie... And I haven't tried a re-worked stock shock... But I have one of his worked over F4i's...
I'd say go for the F4i shock... The added adjustability makes a great difference...
I'd say go for the F4i shock... The added adjustability makes a great difference...
10-02-2009, 10:53 AM
#23
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Again, I'm not Jamie...
But I do have one of his F4i shock options,
I tried the OEM Showa shock with the correct spring.. It was not great. I tried a valving shim stack set up I found on one of the SH sites.. It was just ok,, still harsh over sharp edge bumps.... While I could have tried some more valving options, I decided on Jamie’s setup.. Happy I did... It worked well out of the box as set up for me by Jamie..
Well worth the price in time I saved if nothing else.
Talk with Jamie, tell him what you want, let him guide you to the right used shock (DO NOT BELIEVE THE EBAY SELLER,,, sometimes the shock for sale is mis-labeled)
Go for the DMr shock, you will not be disappointed.
But I do have one of his F4i shock options,
I tried the OEM Showa shock with the correct spring.. It was not great. I tried a valving shim stack set up I found on one of the SH sites.. It was just ok,, still harsh over sharp edge bumps.... While I could have tried some more valving options, I decided on Jamie’s setup.. Happy I did... It worked well out of the box as set up for me by Jamie..
Well worth the price in time I saved if nothing else.
Talk with Jamie, tell him what you want, let him guide you to the right used shock (DO NOT BELIEVE THE EBAY SELLER,,, sometimes the shock for sale is mis-labeled)
Go for the DMr shock, you will not be disappointed.
10-02-2009, 03:42 PM
#25
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I finally have the money, and pm'ed Jamie about a shock. Looking forward to it after all of the positive reviews.
Now I gotta find someone locally or go to a track day and get it fine tuned.
Stebbdt, you'll have to come to my buddies garage when I install it.
Erik
Now I gotta find someone locally or go to a track day and get it fine tuned.
Stebbdt, you'll have to come to my buddies garage when I install it.
Erik
10-03-2009, 06:38 AM
#28
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Jamie, I was wondering if you could clear up a small bit of confusion for me.
There was a small difference between the shock lengths in your and tweety’s charts in the other post about the F4i mod’s you do, which one is the correct length and are those measurements center of eye to center of eye.
Thanks
Tweety’s chart
VTR 345mm
F4i 305mm
Your chart,
VTR 345mm
F4i 315mm
There was a small difference between the shock lengths in your and tweety’s charts in the other post about the F4i mod’s you do, which one is the correct length and are those measurements center of eye to center of eye.
Thanks
Tweety’s chart
VTR 345mm
F4i 305mm
Your chart,
VTR 345mm
F4i 315mm
The F4/F4i shocks are 305mm long. I'm not sure where the 315 number came from, maybe just a typo.
Jamie - Not sure if I should start a new thread for this question, but it ties directly to your statement above.
I'm trying to figure out what the best plan is for my rear shock. I ride in the street and do not see track days in my future. And I'm on the heftier side - 220lbs. Greg is about to work some magic on my forks, but I expect that will make my shock all that much more annoying.
I rode Greg's bike (he wieghs about what I weigh) and it felt great - well damped, perhaps a bit stiff but still quite compliant. He is set up for track days and has a fox twin clicker.
In any case I had been thinking my best bang for the buck is the F4i mod. What I am looking for is a secure well damped, comfortable setup for the street. I push the pace from time to time, and maybe once in my life I will try a track, but mostly I want comfort for quick secondary road travel.
So, what's the best way to achieve this? Assuming a $400 budget but no desire to spend all that if i don't have to, do I have the stock shock modded or go with the F4i set up?
I'm trying to figure out what the best plan is for my rear shock. I ride in the street and do not see track days in my future. And I'm on the heftier side - 220lbs. Greg is about to work some magic on my forks, but I expect that will make my shock all that much more annoying.
I rode Greg's bike (he wieghs about what I weigh) and it felt great - well damped, perhaps a bit stiff but still quite compliant. He is set up for track days and has a fox twin clicker.
In any case I had been thinking my best bang for the buck is the F4i mod. What I am looking for is a secure well damped, comfortable setup for the street. I push the pace from time to time, and maybe once in my life I will try a track, but mostly I want comfort for quick secondary road travel.
So, what's the best way to achieve this? Assuming a $400 budget but no desire to spend all that if i don't have to, do I have the stock shock modded or go with the F4i set up?
Honestly, my recommendation would be to change the spring and upgrade the valving on the stock shock. The stock shocks can be made to work really well actually. The internals are similar to the F4 shock just without a remote reservoir. You don't get the compression damping adjustment but with the Gold Valve properly setup that's not really necessary on the street.
Shoot me a PM or give me a phone call if you'd like to discuss this more.
I've got the adjustable ride height version complete, just no parts yet. One stumbling point is cost, it would be about $40-50 more than the standard conversion. I'd like to try and bring that down some over the off-season if I can.
10-18-2009, 02:12 PM
#30
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got all the components to do the f4 shock mod, bought the shock used off ebay had it shipped directly to jamie, he did the racetec gold valves and springs and made a bracket to fit the f4 shock into the vtr. here are some pics of my progress today, had to call it quits to go do homework...
