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Timing Question...?

Old 08-25-2007, 12:57 PM
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Timing Question...?

Backstory:
I replaced my OEM CCT's with some APE's about a month ago. After I had buttoned the bike back together I noticed she did not pull as hard and had a slight hesitation. I figured my rear cyilinder cam timing was off a tooth or two because a heard the dreaded "click" upon removing the rear OEM CCT. I still ended up putting two tanks of gas through her and left her parked for a week untill I could get some time to fix the timing, which I'm trying to figure out this weekend.

When I get the timing hole to align with "RT" and I check my cam sprokets on the rear cyilinder I get "RE" to line up per manual on the rear sprocket and "RI" on the front (intake, I think) spocket..............However, when I line up the timing hole marks to "FT" , the sprockets do not line up correctly on the "FE" for rear and "FI" for front.... not even close. Am I reading the manual correctly by thinking the "FT" mark should make the "FE" and "FI" line up just like the "RT" mark works?

Um, here is the really bad news,
The rear cyilinder makes an awful cilcking sound coming from the camshaft and the engine dies when the revs get past 2k. It never did this before! The clicking sound is quite loud and sounds bad.

Any Help would be great.
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:26 PM
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RT mark on the crank - RI and RE timing marks should be flush with cylinder top - remember the the piston/crank are at TDC twice per 4 stroke cycle. Simplest is to align it with the rear cam timing marks pointing outward from each other on each sprocket. Once you are there, then rotate the crank counterclockwise 1 1/4 turn and align the crank at the FT mark. This is TDC for the front and so the FE and FI marks should now align with top of front cylinder away from each other and outward. If they don't something is very wrong.

doesn't sound good. when you are rotating it around be careful not to force it though by this time if you have a problem and have been running it its unlikely you can make it worse by manually rotating the cranks. Are all the buckets following the cam lobes closely and the valves look like they are fully closing?
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Old 08-25-2007, 05:42 PM
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Ok, roating the crank counterclockwise by turning the rear tire towards the front of the bike? This is how I am turning the crank, by roatating the rear wheel in 6th gear on a rear stand. Is that counterclockwise? How do I know how far is 1 1/4 turn is?

I had the "RT" timing marks properly in line, I then began rotating the rear tire in 6th just trying to get the "FE" and "FI" marks in the same spot as "RE" / "RI" marks with no luck.

Thanks again for the knowledge
Tommyg
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:20 PM
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yes, rotating the wheel forward. Sorry I thought you had the center screw cover off and were turning the crank with a socket and wrench. For 1 1/4 turn, basically rotate it all the way around once (when the RT timing mark comes back around) and then stop at the FT mark.
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:46 AM
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Ok, thank you Bill. I'm going to look at it again in a couple days and I'll report on my findings.

Last edited by tommygdbr; 08-26-2007 at 04:47 AM. Reason: oops!
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Old 08-31-2007, 03:15 PM
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I took of both cyilinder covers and closely followed the manual and found my cams to be timed PERFECTLY. All the timing marks line up per manual.

However, I still get the loud clicking noise from my rear cyilinder. I adjusted the tension on my rear APE in and out, the noise stayed consistant. I think it is time she goes to the Honda dealer in town to figure her out.

I am going to take the rear cyilinder cover off once more to see if I might have broke something while "sliping" the rear exhaust sprocket back to the correct timimg. I kind of forced it a bit hard and I think I might have broke/bent a valve spring or somthing.

I'm a beginner mechanic and I think I may have messed her up by putting to much pressure on the exhaust sprocket to slip it back in place.

Any other ideas before she goes to the Honda shop?
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:06 AM
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gettimg ready to put her under the wrench... Any ideas on what to look for?
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:59 AM
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I would think if you bent a valve you should see the bucket/shim wont fully close (raise up) and wont follow the small part of the cam as you slowly rotate the engine- obviously the clearance will now be way off too. If they all look like they are fine, you can check with a pry bar that they all depress fully/smoothly I suppose, but that won't tell you much beyond what rotating the engine tells you. Can't think of much else you can check with just the valve cover off to see if there is a bigger problem.
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:10 AM
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Well, I finally got her to the local Honda dealer. They want a RIDICULOUS amount of money to diagnose the problem....... The shop manager said he would need $1000 down just to figure out what is wrong with it. He said his mechanics would be looking at 18 hours of shop time! Crazy huh?!
i got the bike back to my garage and I'm going to start taking things off till I figure out what is wrong. Im thinking it is some bent exhaust/intake valves so that is where Im going first.
Wish me luck!
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:25 PM
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Sorry to hear but good luck... you will learn a lot I'm sure.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:43 PM
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Tommy,
a couple of things.
First of all, on the front cylinder is soundsl like yhou may have the FE (front exhaust) and FI (front intake) marks reversed on the front cylinder. Maybe you just misstated, but the intake is the rear cam on the front cylinder and the exhaust is the front cam. Do you have FI aligned on the intake and FE on the exhaust?

It's also critical that the timing is set sto the rear top-center compression occurs 270 degrees of crank rotation AFTER the front intake top center, Not 90 degrees before. Turn the crank with a socket on the left side flywheel bolt, so you will know how far you have turned the crank. 270 degrees is 3/4 of a full turn of the crank.

Check the valve clearnces before you draw conclusions about bent valves.

It sounds like you got in a little over your head, but if you are careful and methodical, you should be able to figure it out. Hopefully you have not done too much damage.



Bill your bike sounds like mine. Arrgggh. I need a bike....
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:50 PM
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Just put everything in small plastic bags, so you can put it back exactly the same way, lifters, bolts, everything.
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:29 PM
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Red face She is FIXED!!

Well here is the end to my story! I got the rear cylinder taken apart and she had 2 bent exhaust valves. When I explained the situation to the honda dealer we concluded that when I was having trouble getting the exhaust sprocket to line up, I manually turned the engine while the exhaust cam was 3 or 4 teeth off... resulting in 2 bent valves.. I got the valves replaced, runs perfect now!!! Just in time for snow ... It is soooo nice to have an end to this story! I now know a lot more about how engines work!!
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:27 PM
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Glad you got this sorted out, but there<s no way in hell you can manually bent two valves, it had to be while the motor was running.
Enjoy now
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gboezio View Post
Glad you got this sorted out, but there<s no way in hell you can manually bent two valves, it had to be while the motor was running.
Enjoy now
+1

Look on the bright side, at least it wasn't the pain in the A$$ to get to front cylinder.
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