Technique of turn
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 281
From: Denver, CO
Technique of turn
I generally decelerate on the straight and when I turn, accelerate, however, is it best to:
1) Accelerate right as you begin to lean into the turn
2) Accelerate right as you finish getting your lean-angle right
3) Accelerate right as you get half-way into a turn
I generally begin to accelerate somewhere a little before option 2. Is this best?
I also lean up over the tank in higher-speed turns, leaning into it. During slow turns like under 15mph, I tend to counter-lean, keeping the body perpendicular to the road and lean the bike for swerve-due-to-rocks options. I've seen some guys do this at 145mph plus though!!! Ack! Seems it'd warrant a high-siding!
I've been riding a few years and was wondering if I could improve my technique in the 1-2-3 options above. I have only about 20k miles under my belt, mostly twisties in the canyons.
1) Accelerate right as you begin to lean into the turn
2) Accelerate right as you finish getting your lean-angle right
3) Accelerate right as you get half-way into a turn
I generally begin to accelerate somewhere a little before option 2. Is this best?
I also lean up over the tank in higher-speed turns, leaning into it. During slow turns like under 15mph, I tend to counter-lean, keeping the body perpendicular to the road and lean the bike for swerve-due-to-rocks options. I've seen some guys do this at 145mph plus though!!! Ack! Seems it'd warrant a high-siding!
I've been riding a few years and was wondering if I could improve my technique in the 1-2-3 options above. I have only about 20k miles under my belt, mostly twisties in the canyons.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 318
From: San Jose, CA
I normally touch the front brake before starting the lean, as I am slowing down for the turn, this helps settle the front end down and when I start to lean the bike, I get off the brake... the front end doesn't dive down any further as a result of the lean. As soon as I get off the brake, I get back on gas, so I would say I am, like you, starting just before point 2. So in a way, my get off the brake, lean the bike, and get on the gas is almost a continuous 1 or 2 seconds.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Technique of turn
I'm sure my way isn't "kosher" but I usally set my speed before the corner so I don't have to brake any but if I need to brake, I will use the rear. I also wait a bit late before leaning. I basicly wait till almost the last second then cut hard, basicly forcing the bike over. I feel it apexes the corner better. As soon as I cut/lean I get on the gas and depending on the corner I gas pretty hard. Every corner is different and you just kinda judge whats best for each corner. But for a rule of thumb I like to exit the corner about 15-20mph more than I started.
And as far as leaning your body, I used to do the same thing. But I found it was a partly a fear and partly a trained issue. I rode motocross before street and in that world you are tought to stay upright and lean the bike. At higher speeds three things are happening. 1. the bike is more stable 2 the bike is harder to lean due to the tires spinning faster and 3 the whole cornering process is slowed down and it gives you more time to "feel" the corner. Because the bike is harder to lean over at higher speeds when you do lean it over it pushes against you harder, thus, making you feel stable and more comfortable. With slow speed corners(under 50 but more like 30) you are not fighting the tires and the bike pretty muchs feels like it wants to fall over. As the rider this is kinda scary and it makes you feel that if you lean with the bike you are going to fall over. But what is the better to do is just lean with it because you are more likly to have issues if you force the bike over more than it needs i.e. ground clearance and rocks etc...
All I just wrote was my own personal experience. So how did I overcome it? First I found one of the big problems. I was running the Michelin Pilot Sports and one of the things I found with them is the angle of the rear tire. It is a tad taller in the middle than the Dunlops but it has a very abrupt drop to the edge of the tire. It made the bike feel REAL flickable at the lower speeds but when I would go into a slow corner the bike just felt like it was going to fall over. NO resistance from the bike. It was down right scary! Afer I went through 2 rear Pilots I decided to go back the the dunlops in the 207 flavor. The dunlops are a bit shorter in the middle compared to the Pilots but the curve of the tire is the same all the way to the edge. The bike doesn't "flick" quite as fast but in the slow corners but there is much more resistance than before. I am sure some of it was inexperance on my part, but I am MUCH faster in the slow corners with my dunlops than with the michelins and it is all just a comfort thing. But the dunlops seem to hold onto the road better and warm up faster than the michelins.
And as far as leaning your body, I used to do the same thing. But I found it was a partly a fear and partly a trained issue. I rode motocross before street and in that world you are tought to stay upright and lean the bike. At higher speeds three things are happening. 1. the bike is more stable 2 the bike is harder to lean due to the tires spinning faster and 3 the whole cornering process is slowed down and it gives you more time to "feel" the corner. Because the bike is harder to lean over at higher speeds when you do lean it over it pushes against you harder, thus, making you feel stable and more comfortable. With slow speed corners(under 50 but more like 30) you are not fighting the tires and the bike pretty muchs feels like it wants to fall over. As the rider this is kinda scary and it makes you feel that if you lean with the bike you are going to fall over. But what is the better to do is just lean with it because you are more likly to have issues if you force the bike over more than it needs i.e. ground clearance and rocks etc...
All I just wrote was my own personal experience. So how did I overcome it? First I found one of the big problems. I was running the Michelin Pilot Sports and one of the things I found with them is the angle of the rear tire. It is a tad taller in the middle than the Dunlops but it has a very abrupt drop to the edge of the tire. It made the bike feel REAL flickable at the lower speeds but when I would go into a slow corner the bike just felt like it was going to fall over. NO resistance from the bike. It was down right scary! Afer I went through 2 rear Pilots I decided to go back the the dunlops in the 207 flavor. The dunlops are a bit shorter in the middle compared to the Pilots but the curve of the tire is the same all the way to the edge. The bike doesn't "flick" quite as fast but in the slow corners but there is much more resistance than before. I am sure some of it was inexperance on my part, but I am MUCH faster in the slow corners with my dunlops than with the michelins and it is all just a comfort thing. But the dunlops seem to hold onto the road better and warm up faster than the michelins.
Member
Squid
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 30
From: East TN
Re: Technique of turn
Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding your question, but from the way I understand it, you're basically asking how you can get faster... When you accelerate has much less to do with this than your overall corner speed, which is affected by your line, experience, confidence, body positioning, and familiarity with the road/track in question. If I enter the turn at 10MPH more than you, with a better line to boot, then you're already left behind....
There are TONS of books that cover this type of material, and I would highly suggest you pick up 1 or 2 or 4 of them and read all you can.... The "Twist of the Wrist" series comes immediately to mind.
Are we talking about true "aggressive" riding?
To answer your question directly, you want to be on the throttle at least lightly as soon as you begin to lean in.. it will help settle the suspension and give the bike a more stable feel. You can always corner harder on the gas a little than if you were just "coasting"... you will increase your throttle as you apex and then exit the turn. It's a progressive thing- the tires can only give 100% traction, and by braking and/or turning, you're taking away traction that could be used by acceleration. Hypothetically, and generically- if you're pushing the limits of traction, then if you're using 50% of the tires' traction, then you can only use the other 50% for throttle...no more. 70% lean, 30% throttle, and so on, otherwise traction is going to give out somewhere.
If you're dragging pegs, then it's time to start learning to get out of the seat. By shifting your weight to the inside of the bike, you're reducing the lean angle required to turn at the same radius at the same speed.
This could go on for days.... it's basically been broken down to a science by certain riders/authors. You're on the right track by asking for help, and having a desire to improve. Get thee to a track school, and do some reading up. There is a wealth of knowledge out there- use it to your advantage.
And good luck. Wear your gear. All the time.
Added: Oh, and find someone locally who can help you get your suspension dialed in for your weight, riding style, etc. It will help out tons in the confidence department, and is the biggest bang for your buck when it comes to getting faster in the corners.
There are TONS of books that cover this type of material, and I would highly suggest you pick up 1 or 2 or 4 of them and read all you can.... The "Twist of the Wrist" series comes immediately to mind.
Are we talking about true "aggressive" riding?
To answer your question directly, you want to be on the throttle at least lightly as soon as you begin to lean in.. it will help settle the suspension and give the bike a more stable feel. You can always corner harder on the gas a little than if you were just "coasting"... you will increase your throttle as you apex and then exit the turn. It's a progressive thing- the tires can only give 100% traction, and by braking and/or turning, you're taking away traction that could be used by acceleration. Hypothetically, and generically- if you're pushing the limits of traction, then if you're using 50% of the tires' traction, then you can only use the other 50% for throttle...no more. 70% lean, 30% throttle, and so on, otherwise traction is going to give out somewhere.
If you're dragging pegs, then it's time to start learning to get out of the seat. By shifting your weight to the inside of the bike, you're reducing the lean angle required to turn at the same radius at the same speed.
This could go on for days.... it's basically been broken down to a science by certain riders/authors. You're on the right track by asking for help, and having a desire to improve. Get thee to a track school, and do some reading up. There is a wealth of knowledge out there- use it to your advantage.
And good luck. Wear your gear. All the time.
Added: Oh, and find someone locally who can help you get your suspension dialed in for your weight, riding style, etc. It will help out tons in the confidence department, and is the biggest bang for your buck when it comes to getting faster in the corners.
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 28
From: Calabasas, CA
Re: Technique of turn
I try to use my brakes as "least" as possible, I'm in it for smoothness. I keep a neutral throttle going into the turn, aplying throttle as I toss the bike into the turn, and continue to add throttle. Upon apex, that's when I crank the throttle to get me out of the turn.
I don't ride hard, nor at ludicress speed...just trying to stay smooth.
For slower, tighter turns, I rotate around the side of the tank the turn is in. Being set up before the actual turn, with my head cranked towards the exit.
Faster turns, I just move my body centerline to the inside of the bike where the turn is.
I don't ride hard, nor at ludicress speed...just trying to stay smooth.
For slower, tighter turns, I rotate around the side of the tank the turn is in. Being set up before the actual turn, with my head cranked towards the exit.
Faster turns, I just move my body centerline to the inside of the bike where the turn is.
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