Hotbrakes

I feel much safer in turns now that I hang off. Not only am I more stable, I have more room and ability to adjust my line in case I encounter the unexpected (gravel, lane sharer, animal, bumps in the road, etc.) Counter weighting forms a triangle out of bike and rider which is the most stable object. The tires form one point, riders inside knee another, and center of gravity up the bike to the riders head forms the other. In this position the bike is planted even though it may wander due to pavement or unforeseen objects as mentioned before, but my position is maintained. I spent many years riding sport bikes like dirtbikes and am amazed that I never wrecked. Luckily I was never going faster than my ability(well...) or past the limits of the machine.

Triangulating as I have come to call it connects me and the bike as one, so I deal with one center of gravity, one steering input (from the bars), and two objects suspended as one. Less variables, more control. Riding the other way (leaning bike not rider) causes rider position to move, is harder to change lines as quickly, and bumps are absorbed in the riders back and arms, not the bikes suspension.

It takes getting used to, but after reading books (with pictures) I have become much more confident in turns. I am not a knee dragger yet, but I'm on my way. I would definitely research proper riding techniques either by taking classes, reading books, or watching videos. It could save your life.

PJay

Yes, Doug, I agree with you, too; not for the first time by any means, huh?

I guess I have the luxury of going and racing whenever I feel like it, so don't need to go bananas on the street.

I am all for anyone going as fast as safely on the streets as they can - and if someone wants to go knee-dragging, then fine. But it is not necessary, which I sorta thought was the original question in this thread.

And I am guessing that our roads in New Zealand are a lot rougher than those many members here habitually ride on, which makes a difference, too. Our State Highway One is mainly two-lane blacktop, so you can imagine what the backroads are like: brilliant for the SH, but you are likely to collect livestock with your knees if you stick 'em out too far. (That's where the sheep-******** jokes come from, I suppose.) If you actually put any weight on a dragged knee, it would likely be torn off by the bumps in the road.

superbling

I guess I split the difference and shift my weight to the inside but don't truly hang off (1/2 of one butt cheek maybe) although I feel like I am. I feel MUCH more confident doing this than with steering only inputs.

Disclaimer: If I'm riding the speed limit on curves, I have no need to do anything but yawn and steer.

Involute

Wrong?

Only if you decide to throw MX, off road riding or a very fast rider with poor technique in to the equation, none of which apply to the original post. But if it makes you feel better to add irrelevant variables in order to be able to tell someone their wrong go for it.





Hotbrakes............. You added some very good points.

superhawk22

+1 Doug a little body positioning is all that is needed on the street and yes you will get used to the feeling the more you do it. The faster you go the more you need to lean off to create a center of gravity that is lower and more to the side to maintain traction and there's no substitute for seat time.

Waterboy

What everyone else says- on the street it's not necessary. If you're going that fast to need body position, go to the track (if you can)

A tip- If you're getting off the bike, the biggest problem i've seen is "crossing up", getting your butt off the seat and your head/chest over the tank. What I do to get off the bike is this-
Knee on the side of the tank, crack of your butt on the edge of the seat. To ensure your upper body is off. put your outside arm against the tank and try to kiss the mirror. Your back will be inline with the bike and you'll get the results you're looking for. It'll feel weird at first, but ride it enough and it'll become second nature

PJay

Your first comment that I quoted, IV, was that the technique was only of use in low speed, limited space manoeuvering (I would imagine you had trials riding in mind).

Actually, I have difficulty understanding how someone can be a very fast and successful racer but at the same time have "poor technique". Maybe he just doesn't read the right books. We'll just agree to differ, I think.

Yesterday I was reminded of a lot of the issues we've been discussing on this thread. I went and helped out as a travelling instructor at our local race track; my son Alan was riding his street SV650 at his first ever time on the track, as the youngest and least experienced rider there. It was a training day, so there were 20 or 30 race bikes there, but most people were just on their street bikes.

Alan was in the novice slow group, and it was really interesting watching him in comparison with some of the others. We did all the usual stuff about cornering lines, smoothness being first and the speed will follow etc, and then we had him do about 10 laps using no brakes at all. Alan was the only one in the group who took that up initially.

He found himself concentrating so hard on riding a smooth brakeless line that he did not even try to hang off his bike. Within 2 laps, he astonished himself - and the others - by whizzing past the folk who were jerkily trying to hang off their bikes for and in corners.

Now there are obviously questions of technique in all this, but it was a very good illustration of the idea that the basics have to be done right first before any advanced techniques comprise more than just a hindrance.

nuhawk

Randman

Yeah...Er,,what was the question? LOL

PJay

I think that was the question.

Direct answer: yes, it takes getting used to.

Indirect answer: for most people, it's not worth getting used to.

LMFAO.

MarineHawk