Herbie

Ok, I am well read on the various electrical gremlins people have experienced with the SH but this one is a bit odd - hopefully much more simple. I will start by saying that I have not started tearing things apart yet, I do plan on cleaning EVERY electrical contact this weekend but this issue is not yet critical, just annoying.

Here's the detail: When the bike is cold and has not been started for more than 10 hours or so it sometimes will not turn over AT ALL the first few times I press the starter button. The headlight will go out (just like it normally does when starting) but nothing else happens, not even a *click*. It behaves as if I were trying to start in gear with the kickstand down. After a few tries it finally fires right up, not sluggish but RIGHT up. The longer the bike has been sitting the more likely this issue will happen and the more times I will have to hit the button for it to start. I put a brand new battery in it and it is charging and holding a charge properly (and once it kicks over it starts strong). I did test the battery after 3 days of sitting and it was fully charged but I had to hit the start button a dozen or more times before it would fire up. Once it has been started for the day the issue has not happened again until it sits for a while. Other than that I have not experienced any other issues (other than running a bit lean/warm until I can adjust the carbs). This is a 2003 SH with just under 14K on it. I purchased the bike a month ago (with around 12K on it) and the previous owner had an old battery but kept it on a tender and he said that he had the same issue but thought it was because the battery was old.

I read on another post where someone mentioned the starter relay in relation to a different issue and that could cause this situation but unless the starter relay is close enough to the engine to get pretty warm, I don't know why it would only happen cold. Before I start throwing parts at this issue I wanted to check if anyone else has had the same problem and, if so, what finally fixed it.

Thanks,
Herbie.

trinc

next time try taping on the starter a couple of times with a wrench or big screwdriver handle before trying to start it.

tim

Herbie

I'll try that. Starter getting stuck (brushes or contacts could be dirty)... I've had that with old cars but usually when the stater was way too hot (forgot to put a heat shield between the starter and headers). But that's a good place to start.
Thanks.

eddie baker

yeah could be starter also check voltage at switch when this is happening could be the switch also

Moehawk005

hey hey Herbie the same problem happend to me in NorCal. mine was that the bike was sittin overnite and in the mornin when i need to start i didnt rite away. what i did was to clean the sparkplug and bingo. by the way the hawk has trouble firein up on mid 40 os below weather.

Moehawk005

i ride my bike everyday. rain or shine.

steve29

I could see that working. Pardon my ignorance, but would that work under the same premise as tapping on a car starter? Meaning that one or more of the splines on the starter are worn down and hitting it causes it to move to a different spline, one that is not worn down. I've owned my share of cars that I had to do that to. Lol. I could be way off, but that's always been my understanding. Maybe you'll get lucky and that will work until you get s starter in.

Herbie

Moehawk005 : Not a sparkplug - it doesn't even try to turn over, not so much as a click. And I usually do ride every day, just not always to work - nice dress pants don't work too well on the freeway. And I also try to stay out of the big desert dust storms we have been having here in AZ. But 2K miles in a month is about average for me (just have to do it 100 miles at a time with this fuel tank).

Moehawk005

hey herbie maybe is you starter. i dont know what else could b.

VTRsurfer

Does the battery have at least 12.5 volts? If so, check and clean the battery terminal connections and the ground attachment from the negative battery to the engine.

Otherwise it sounds like a bad starter. Try jumping the starter directly from the battery, but make sure you make the last connection at the + starter terminal. You don't want to blow up a battery. And make sure it's in neutral first.

Herbie

The battery is fresh and terminals are pristine (first thing I did after buying this bike a month ago). This issue doesn't happen EVERY morning but often enough that I want to track it down before it goes from annoyance to full blown issue. And like I said, once it decides to fire up it does so without any hesitation, does not crank slow or show any signs of a weak battery.

I need to go through the wiring diagram and see where the starter relay is and test that. It's been a VERY long time but I remember working on old Ford cars, with the starter solenoid mounted in the engine bay (rather than on the starter), having the same issue, I had to hold the key in the start position for a few seconds then release and try again before it would kick over. I imagine something was "stuck" (or just a bad contact) and it needed to be "pre-heated" with the electric current before it would engage. I have an adjustable current 12V power source that I can use to test the starter directly (it can be set from .25A all the way to 25A). I'll have to let the bike sit for a day or two before I can test because that's really the only way to recreate the issue. I guess I could hook up an ammeter to the battery and see what sort of current it draws during this event, that should tell me if the starter is "stuck" (high draw) or if the relay is just not closing (low draw). Now if I can just remember who borrowed my digital clamp meter (will do DC) it will make life a bit easier.

I'm really somewhat OCD about finding out "why" before throwing parts at a problem. Not that I am cheap (well maybe a bit), but it's the comfort of knowing the real issue is solved and not just masking a symptom. I was just hoping someone else had already been through this exact issue and already had an answer.

Thank you to everyone for your input, it's always good to share experiences rather than us each having to figure out the same issues individually.

When I do get around to serious testing (maybe this weekend) I will try to remember to snap some photos and document the solution (assuming I figure it out).

Tweety

Clean the switch gear for the starter button... It can like the more common turnsignal switch become gummed up... That would explain the absence of a klick (starter relay)...

ascothawk

I had the same symptoms a couple years ago.It was the starter relay.Mine was intermittent while on a ride,but always started when I was home trying to diagnose the problem.The relay is on the left side of the subframe under the rear tailpiece.The positive battery cable goes directly to it. I had already cleaned the connections at the battery,relay and starter but still had the intermittent problem.I finally got it to fail while testing,12.9V into relay,.2 V out. Replaced the relay,no problems since.

Herbie

Thanks. I am going to pull out my electrical testing tools this weekend and go through everything but the more I look into the issue it looks like I may be ordering the starter relay before this is all over. Looks like the local dealer has it for ~$67 so that's not horrible. I just hate replacing a part just to find out that the issue was not solved. I really hate intermittent issues, if something is going to break why can't it just fail so I know what the real issue is .
I'm an IT infrastructure engineer, server admin, and all that stuff so I have to deal with mystery issues all day, every day. I really don't want to deal with those sorts of issues outside of work, but I guess that's the price of admission.

nuhawk

Check the wiring harness cluster just behind the tank - right below the seat. Make sure everything is cool in there. Mine was trash - all sorts of elec problems. Cleaned it up, soldier, shrink wrap and we good to go.

fz911

My starter had similar issues. My solution was to take it apart (starter) and clean it with electrical connector cleaner (about 5 bucks). These starters are not complex. A few bolts to remove ad then a few more to disassemble and reassemble. Should take about 25 mins. PM if you need more specific details. It worked great for me and only cost 5$

Herbie

Cool, more great, and pretty simple suggestions. I'm pretty comfortable with electronics and motors so checking/cleaning all the electrical connections and rebuilding (or just cleaning) a starter is not a big deal as long as the starter is easy enough to get to. I don't usually like pulling my bike apart unless there is a reason simply because there is always the risk of breaking something that was perfectly fine before - and I would rather be riding.... I guess I'll just check all this stuff this weekend: check/clean all contacts, check/clean starter button, pull apart and clean the starter, test the starter relay then test the electrical system in general. I already have all the correct cleaners, various replacement spade connectors - even the tools for pulling apart molex style connections and crimpers for both square and round inserts... I'll try to remember to take pictures just in case I find something obvious I can put together a FAQ to share.

lazn

my guess is either the starter button needs cleaning (I think it is a two stage button, turn off headlight, then start bike, 2nd stage may be dirty) or the starter relay needs replacing.

residentg

I have a Honda CRF450X dirt bike. A common problem with it are the starter motor brushes, which can be replaced fairly easily. Maybe replace yours while you are at it. See Item #2 on the fiche: