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Running on one cylinder

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Old May 26, 2008 | 06:50 AM
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Running on one cylinder

My recently acquired '98 Superhawk suddenly started running very poorly. Has 8000 miles on it (had 7900 when I bought it). Ran great until recently. It suddenly started stalling at low rpm. Then it slowly started stalling at even higher RPM's. Now is only running on one cylinder

So far I have done the following.

1. Removed the gas tank and inspected for flow. Seems ok.
2. Removed air filter and inspected carbs. Front slide when closed seems to have a smaller gap than the rear carb. Air filter looks good. No visible lines crimped.
3. Pulled spark plugs and inspected - seemed to be normal.
4. Hmm. maybe bad gas. So I spit and sputtered my way to the nearest Sunoco station and filled up. Rode about 15 miles up and back the interstate. Ran even worse - max speed about 70 and definitely seems to be running only on one cylinder now.
5. Back home - pulled plugs again - definitely one plug looks good but the back plug is not firing and smells of gas.

My conclusion - not getting spark to the back plug. Since my manual says replace plugs at 8K miles I am going to try that next.

(I carefully checked the vacuum line to the gas tank to prevent PVLIR syndrome.)

Any other suggestions? I really don't want to dive into the carbs; my history with cleaning carbs is spotty, so I'll probably rely on my local dealer if necessary.

The only other contributing factor I can remember is that I rode the bike home from work on Wednesday in the rain. Not a very heavy storm, but a steady drizzle. It may have started missing then ??

Frustrated in South Florida and was planning a nice ride on my holiday,

Sparky
Old May 26, 2008 | 07:13 AM
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I'd check the plug wires and coils before carbs.
Old May 26, 2008 | 08:14 AM
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If the problem started while riding in the rain, a good possibility is that you have a leak to ground from a plug wire or the coil.
On a car you would check it by attaching a jumper wire from a long narrow screwdriver to ground, then run the tip of the screwdriver along the wire and around the coil while looking for a spark jumping to the screwdriver. Of course this won't work on the SH too well since everything is pretty much buried.
You would have to visually inspect the plug wires and coil for burn marks which appear as gray areas and carbon tracks.
Good luck
Old May 26, 2008 | 08:59 AM
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If you have a way to check carb sync that might not be a bad idea. Are the lines going to the tank and petcock hooked up correctly? That's a VERY easy mistake to make and cause all kinds of issues.
Old May 26, 2008 | 12:09 PM
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update

I checked the fuel tank and petcock lines carefully. I am fairly certain they are in the correct locations.

I bought and installed new plugs. No improvement.

I checked the rear spark plug wire resistance. Seems to be OK. Was going to check the coil resistance but the primary wires are to difficult to disconnect.

I am 90% sure at this point there is debris in the rear carb and needs to be cleaned. I will take to a dealer tomorrow and let them go thru it.

It probably needs to have a professional tuning anyway. It was backfiring slightly on deceleration before this problem althought it was not enough to worry me.

I just don't like working on carbs. Some people fear snakes and spiders. I fear carburetors. I can rebuild an old BMW's carbs with my Swiss Army knife and a pair of pliars. But not these babies.

Guess I am getting old and lazy.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Old May 26, 2008 | 12:59 PM
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Double check for PVLIR (the bottom line on the petcock doesn't get a vacuum tube connected to it, even though it looks like it should, it is the back one that does)
Old May 26, 2008 | 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lazn
Double check for PVLIR (the bottom line on the petcock doesn't get a vacuum tube connected to it, even though it looks like it should, it is the back one that does)
Like so, as seen from the back.
Old May 26, 2008 | 07:09 PM
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Gee, how'd you get the camera under the tank for that picture?
Old May 26, 2008 | 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by happytrack44
Gee, how'd you get the camera under the tank for that picture?
Carefully, lol.
Old May 26, 2008 | 08:24 PM
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I've heard of vacuum lock on the tank from rain getting sucked up the vent, but that usually clears either after the bike is parked or when you open the gas cap. It seems neither is your problem. This sounds electrical to me. First, find out which cylinder isn't firing by carefully checking the header temperatures. Next, swap the coils and see if the problem moves from one cylinder to the other. If so then you have a bad coil.
Old May 27, 2008 | 10:57 AM
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Update on the wounded Hawk

I arose early this morning and loaded the bike in my pickup. Dropped her off at the dealer (Riva) in Pompano Beach on the way to work. May be four or five days before a diagnosis because of their backlog; which surprises me. Are all the dealers this backlogged? I usually ride a 2000 Harley Ultra Classic and am used to fast turnaround for service (please don't start a "I hate Harleys" thread - can't we all just get along?)

After putting the plugs in yesterday the bike did start better, but is still missing pretty badly. I am not certain what the problem is, but think it is most likely carbs. It could still be the coil as I have had weird intermittent problems with coils before.

I am eagerly awaiting word from the service department. I hope it is electrical which usually means swapping out a part or two. Here is a photo of the bike, with Corbin saddle and Jardines.
Attached Thumbnails Running on one cylinder-sparkys-shawk.jpg  
Old May 27, 2008 | 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sparkyharley
2. Removed air filter and inspected carbs. Front slide when closed seems to have a smaller gap than the rear carb.
I chased down a poor running (one cylinder) scenario by replacing petcock and coils. Turned out to be a sticking diaphragm/slide. This was also on a 98.
Old May 27, 2008 | 12:31 PM
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Most non-harley dealerships have several brands and lines of different products. Lots of work comes in from personal water craft, atv's, and generators that sit unused most of the year and gum up the carbs, bad battery, etc; gold mine really.
Old May 28, 2008 | 03:25 PM
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Problem solved - vacuum line problem

I retrieved my bike today from the dealer. They found the problem quickly and did not take long in doing so. I am grateful.

The service ticket reads as follows.
Found vacuum line off front cylinder. Also found float bowl vent line had red filter installed binding throttle linkage. Rear float bown vent also pinched. Removed component (the red filter). Float bowl now venting to air. Will need parts that were removed to set back to stock condition. Missing front tank collar.
The PO had installed the filter, which I did not realize was even non-stock. I still am curious about the symptoms, which seemed to become progressively worse. But I guess the line may have been just connected for a while??

Thanks to all for your suggestions. The bike runs great - again. Even the shop manager remarked on how strong the bike runs, and what a great bike the Superhawk still is today.

PS - any suggestions about what is the "missing front tank collar"? I assume it is some rubber trim piece that fits around the front of the gas tank; but I like to confirm my assumptions.
Old May 28, 2008 | 03:35 PM
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The 2 bolts that hold the front of the tank down, there should be a metal colar in the rubber grommets that the washer tightens against so that you don't completely crush the rubber grommets.
Old May 28, 2008 | 03:49 PM
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I get vapor lock on mine if I fill the tank up to the top. Bike will studer until I pull over and pop the tank open, then see gas flowing out of the bottom.
Old May 28, 2008 | 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 01-hawkster
I get vapor lock on mine if I fill the tank up to the top. Bike will studer until I pull over and pop the tank open, then see gas flowing out of the bottom.
That's completely normal for the VTR. Don't fill it all the way up, or if you do take it easy for the first few miles until the level goes down (no stoppies or wheelies - I know, what am I thinking!?!?!).
Old May 28, 2008 | 08:24 PM
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Glad to hear you got it resolved. Have fun riding.
Old Jul 4, 2008 | 07:24 AM
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not fixed after all

The same problem arose this week. Again when riding home in a light rain, a very light rain. Rode to work in the morning with no problem, on the way home (a 12 mile ride) I noticed some cutting out after about 10 miles. I barely limped back to the house on one cylinder.

I pulled tank, airbox, fairing and have looked for any vacuum hoses not well connected. Found nothing amiss.

I'll try Greg's suggestion next - swapping coils. Is there any other way (with ohm meter?) to check for a bad coil?

The rain factor cannot be coincidental.

BTW, the bike has run just fine until this Wednesday. No problems, good acceleration and good gas mileage.
Old Jul 4, 2008 | 09:29 AM
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There is a vacuum line that runs to the fuel petcock, if it is kinked or loose then the fuel will not flow adequately to the carbs. The other thought I had on your symptom was a plugged vent for the gas tank. I removed the vent tubing entirely because air flow while I was riding was causing hiccups.
Old Jul 4, 2008 | 10:10 AM
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I feel silly

After spending four hours this morning taking off stuff and examining the various hoses and connections I discovered the problem.

I was starting to remove the front coil and decided to check the "other end" of the coil wire, i.e., the spark plug wire. It pulled loose from the spark plug with no resistance at all.

It was not connected well to the plug. Probably was loose and vibrations eventually worked it completely off the plug. The rain may have helped.

Put the plug wire back on tight. Put all the stuff back on and just did a test ride. It ran great.

Sigh....four hours of fun for something that really took about 10 seconds to fix. At least I am getting pretty good at removing and replacing the gas tank, air box, body work, and belly pan. While I had the belly pan off I went ahead and changed the oil and filter.
Old Jul 5, 2008 | 10:48 AM
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And you gave the rest of us something to dwell upon rather than what's next on the Fox channel's Paradise Hotel.
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