Rear cylinder not firing
03-30-2007, 10:12 AM
#32
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the front and rear main jets should be differnt. I think 178/180 (fr/rear) is stock. no adjustment possible there except changing them out.
the factor pilot jet is 45, some people will put in a 48, so 50 is very rich. particularly if the mixture screw is also out 2.5-3 turns that would make low end very rich.
were the needles stock and/or shimmed?
the factor pilot jet is 45, some people will put in a 48, so 50 is very rich. particularly if the mixture screw is also out 2.5-3 turns that would make low end very rich.
were the needles stock and/or shimmed?
03-30-2007, 10:15 AM
#33
Josh
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i have a 180/178. The manual says that stock is 175/178, so that is why i belived i had a weak aftermarket jet kit. I know they are Factory Jets, so they are aftermarket.
I am not sure if the needles are shimmed
I am not sure if the needles are shimmed
03-30-2007, 10:17 AM
#35
Josh
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the front and rear main jets should be differnt. I think 178/180 (fr/rear) is stock. no adjustment possible there except changing them out.
the factor pilot jet is 45, some people will put in a 48, so 50 is very rich. particularly if the mixture screw is also out 2.5-3 turns that would make low end very rich.
were the needles stock and/or shimmed?
the factor pilot jet is 45, some people will put in a 48, so 50 is very rich. particularly if the mixture screw is also out 2.5-3 turns that would make low end very rich.
were the needles stock and/or shimmed?
03-30-2007, 11:23 AM
#39
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Don't mix up those emulsion tubes. They are different as you can see by the location of the holes. Courtesy of FactoryPro, here is a pic of which is which.
Give us your intake/exhaust mods and altitude and one of us will give you a good baseline to start with. I gotta go to sleep but I'll be up around 9pm EST.
Give us your intake/exhaust mods and altitude and one of us will give you a good baseline to start with. I gotta go to sleep but I'll be up around 9pm EST.
03-30-2007, 11:44 AM
#40
Josh
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Don't mix up those emulsion tubes. They are different as you can see by the location of the holes. Courtesy of FactoryPro, here is a pic of which is which.
Give us your intake/exhaust mods and altitude and one of us will give you a good baseline to start with. I gotta go to sleep but I'll be up around 9pm EST.
Give us your intake/exhaust mods and altitude and one of us will give you a good baseline to start with. I gotta go to sleep but I'll be up around 9pm EST.
The bike clearly is running super rich, it never uses choke and never fully warms up. I never have run her above 6000RPM, so i don't know how she runs at top throttle, but mid usually is great or pretty good. idle is the only problem, she runs at about 1700 rpm at idle and is never very constant. I also get about 18-19mpg.
03-30-2007, 11:56 AM
#41
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From what people are saying the 50 pilots seems to be the main problem. Like you said I wonder if you could put in the stock ones you have from your spare carbs? Or would they not work with the factory mains? I am not really adding much, but am interested in how this all turns out.
03-30-2007, 12:32 PM
#42
Josh
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yeah, i lost the little guy that holds the needle in, so i am off to the hardware store to pick another up. i am going to reduce the needle one spot to the 3rd position and put in the stock 45's 
03-30-2007, 05:44 PM
#43
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You talking about the C-clip? Hhehehe, yeah those little ******* can really fly if you're not careful.
Yea, bro. You are running suuuuuuper rich with those settings and your elevation. You never came back with your intake/exhaust status (mods?). You need to go back to the stock #45 idle jets and get your main jets sized correctly before we move on.
Yea, bro. You are running suuuuuuper rich with those settings and your elevation. You never came back with your intake/exhaust status (mods?). You need to go back to the stock #45 idle jets and get your main jets sized correctly before we move on.
03-30-2007, 06:02 PM
#44
Josh
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You talking about the C-clip? Hhehehe, yeah those little ******* can really fly if you're not careful.
Yea, bro. You are running suuuuuuper rich with those settings and your elevation. You never came back with your intake/exhaust status (mods?). You need to go back to the stock #45 idle jets and get your main jets sized correctly before we move on.
Yea, bro. You are running suuuuuuper rich with those settings and your elevation. You never came back with your intake/exhaust status (mods?). You need to go back to the stock #45 idle jets and get your main jets sized correctly before we move on.
i am kinda a grandma on a bike, i just like accelerating from a stop, but other then that i just kinda cruise I had to go to 4 stores to find a C clip!!! Fricken sucked, but NAPA had a good c clip kit and i found the correct one
03-30-2007, 08:34 PM
#45
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Josh be sure to let us know how this all turns out and good luck. Nice to know about the c-clips also. I was cleaning carbs on my cbx tonite and lost one - hopefully the napa here will have somethign similar
bill
bill
03-30-2007, 09:10 PM
#46
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03-31-2007, 01:44 AM
#48
Josh
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I have her all back together, i was trying to get her done by the time i had my date tonight, but oh my god, sooo many problems!!! I was just about to put the tank back on when i remembered i forgot to put the throttle cable back on, grrr!!! Well, i unbolted everything and started putting the cables on, the first one went on smoothly, but for some reason, i couldn't get the second one on. I was like, what the heck!!!
ok, so i looked from the side and it looked weird, i must have spent like more then 10 minutes trying to force that little guy into that hole. Well i finally noticed it it was smaller then the other hole. I couldn't believe it, i guess when i was working on the carbs today, it must have gotten hit, because it was all misshaped. Oh man, so i grabbed a flat head screwdriver and tried to just open it up a bit, BANG! It broke! So yeah, i started freaking!! Then i was looking at the extra set of carbs i have, but i found out i cant switch that part, it is all one piece. The funny thing is, is that i had to break it even more to force that cable into the hole. Well anyways, it is the retract cable, not the one that actually pulls, so i don't think i will have any problem, it just totally sucked! I couldn't believe they made that part out of aluminum.
Well, i took some pix of the carbs before i put them in the bike, i will post tomorrow, i left the camera in the shop. I am going to start her up tomorrow morning, before work. i believe i put the needles to the 4th position, as i had them originally. So basically i only cleaned the carbs and changed the pilot jets back to 45's. We will see tomorrow how she runs.
-Josh
ok, so i looked from the side and it looked weird, i must have spent like more then 10 minutes trying to force that little guy into that hole. Well i finally noticed it it was smaller then the other hole. I couldn't believe it, i guess when i was working on the carbs today, it must have gotten hit, because it was all misshaped. Oh man, so i grabbed a flat head screwdriver and tried to just open it up a bit, BANG! It broke! So yeah, i started freaking!! Then i was looking at the extra set of carbs i have, but i found out i cant switch that part, it is all one piece. The funny thing is, is that i had to break it even more to force that cable into the hole. Well anyways, it is the retract cable, not the one that actually pulls, so i don't think i will have any problem, it just totally sucked! I couldn't believe they made that part out of aluminum.
Well, i took some pix of the carbs before i put them in the bike, i will post tomorrow, i left the camera in the shop
. I am going to start her up tomorrow morning, before work. i believe i put the needles to the 4th position, as i had them originally. So basically i only cleaned the carbs and changed the pilot jets back to 45's. We will see tomorrow how she runs. -Josh
03-31-2007, 08:04 AM
#50
Josh
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Sadly i don't have extra jets, these were installed on the bike when i got it, i have been ridding her like this for 2 years. I am going to have to order a new 182 jet and take her apart again.
03-31-2007, 08:29 AM
#51
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That's fine. Just use the mains you have and put it all back together. Get the other settings as I recommended earlier. I guarantee it'll run much better. Start thinking now about either paying for a carb sync or getting some mercury sticks. These carbs don't like to be out of sync. They fart and spit if out more than a few cm.
03-31-2007, 08:36 AM
#52
Josh
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just got her running, but not well, idled much much better, but under throttle, bad, backfired every time. I turned her off so i could move the cars out of the shop and drive her out. She wouldn't start again. She is on the charger again, i will see if i can get her started. has anyone had a bad experience with seafoam additive? It is a fuel stabilizer and carb cleaner.
03-31-2007, 09:08 AM
#53
Josh
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Ok, i am hosting a few videos i took. The first is showing my newest problem. Bike starts up perfectly now, but wont run under any throttle. I dont know what changed in 20 minutes of sitting. It was running fine under throttle but just backfiring. I dont get it. The second one is showing the throttle problem and also the sound of my rear cylinder. I am just checking with people if it is normal or if the valves are making too much noise. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWzD5F1u-XU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJdJGtO9IjU
Here is a picture of the carbs all cleaned up before i put her back together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWzD5F1u-XU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJdJGtO9IjU
Here is a picture of the carbs all cleaned up before i put her back together
03-31-2007, 09:55 AM
#54
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the sound is fine. As to why it won't take any throttle - when you put the old 45 pilots back in did you double check that the lumen was opened and not clogged? Its a really tiny passage through the pilot and if it had been sitting in old carbs/gas it clogs easy. If chokes helps at all, this may be the problem. Second, be sure you have the vacum tube from rear cylinder to the right spot on the petcock, its easy to put on the wrong one even if you've done this drill a lot (its the left side nipple not the one sticking straight down in the middle.)
03-31-2007, 10:00 AM
#55
Josh
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I am pretty sure that all the air passages were very clean, i put a ton of carb cleaner in all of them and then i used my air compressor to push air through everything.
I am pretty sure that i got that little guy on, there are 5 total connections to the tank,right? I think i got them all, i will double check that one later. it is just so weird because it was idling and running fine, minus the backfiring, which isn't good, but so much better then not running at all under throttle. I dont understand.
I am pretty sure that i got that little guy on, there are 5 total connections to the tank,right? I think i got them all, i will double check that one later. it is just so weird because it was idling and running fine, minus the backfiring, which isn't good, but so much better then not running at all under throttle. I dont understand.
03-31-2007, 10:05 AM
#56
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that pilot jet though can seem like you are blowing stuff through it and its deceiving. and if clogged it won't come clean with just spraying. I soaked mine for an hour and still had to use a fine wire to break it up then spray.
pull a plug - if its clean as a whistle I would think that might be the problem. The other test is to see if you can just 'baby' it up into a higher rev - use the choke and just give it the slightest gas wiggling the throttle. If you get the revs up so the needles/slides move up out of the way it should run OK cause you are around the lowspeed circuit then. If you find that its a good bet its the pilots.
pull a plug - if its clean as a whistle I would think that might be the problem. The other test is to see if you can just 'baby' it up into a higher rev - use the choke and just give it the slightest gas wiggling the throttle. If you get the revs up so the needles/slides move up out of the way it should run OK cause you are around the lowspeed circuit then. If you find that its a good bet its the pilots.
03-31-2007, 05:04 PM
#59
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Seafoam is great stuff. It works well.
Yeah, you're definitely lean. Something I've tried in the past is I hook up a series of hoses and tees to a funnel full of fuel. This allows me to run the bike with the tank and the top of the airbox off. This way you can watch the carbs as you throttle up. A problem with the slides is easily identified this way. Also, there should be some resistance when opening the slides by hand, not just the spring, but you're pushing air through a small hole with the diaphragm. When you let them go they should come down with some slight resistance too, not just snap shut.
You did adjust your mixture screws to 2 full turns out, right? You had the choke cables hooked up too I suppose? Just checking.... Also, during those videos did you have the bike on choke at all?
This is a low rpm/part throttle problem. The idle jet is your primary fuel metering circuit at idle and low rpm. Then, as throttle is opened slightly and at low rpm the mixture screws control fuel. Once the slides start to open the needle height/profile takes over. Full throttle, high rpm operations are metered by the main jets.
Yeah, you're definitely lean. Something I've tried in the past is I hook up a series of hoses and tees to a funnel full of fuel. This allows me to run the bike with the tank and the top of the airbox off. This way you can watch the carbs as you throttle up. A problem with the slides is easily identified this way. Also, there should be some resistance when opening the slides by hand, not just the spring, but you're pushing air through a small hole with the diaphragm. When you let them go they should come down with some slight resistance too, not just snap shut.
You did adjust your mixture screws to 2 full turns out, right? You had the choke cables hooked up too I suppose? Just checking.... Also, during those videos did you have the bike on choke at all?
This is a low rpm/part throttle problem. The idle jet is your primary fuel metering circuit at idle and low rpm. Then, as throttle is opened slightly and at low rpm the mixture screws control fuel. Once the slides start to open the needle height/profile takes over. Full throttle, high rpm operations are metered by the main jets.
03-31-2007, 06:26 PM
#60
Josh
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Yeah, in the video the bike has full choke on. It seems like i am not getting any extra fuel when i pull the throttle, so it is just getting extra air, which causes it to die.
What i dont understand at all, is 20 minutes before i took the video, it was running perfectly, but was backfiring, which usually means too much fuel, now it has not enough. I am so confused
What i dont understand at all, is 20 minutes before i took the video, it was running perfectly, but was backfiring, which usually means too much fuel, now it has not enough. I am so confused
