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Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)

Old 09-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)

Hi all,

Okay I have the thread printed out in my hand from the other forum member concerning CCT replacement (nice post BTW) and I just installed the rear APE CCT (100% positive all is correct). I then rotated the crank 1 1/4 turns counter clockwise and it has an "F" mark and not an "FT" mark (as stated in my manual and previous post). My bike is a 1998 and I am 99.9% sure I am TDC for the front CCT. Can someone please verify I am at TDC for the front CCT? I appreciate the help!
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:00 PM
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a good way to find out if you're at TDC is to remove the plug and stick a rod or long screwdriver into the plug hole so that you can watch it as you turn the crank. Of course the rod will go up to its highest point when you are top dead center. That way there is no guessing. You can practice this easily with both pistons to verify position of the pistons.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:44 PM
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If you are ligned up with F, you are not TDC. I believe you should only rotate 270 degrees to get to TDC, but I may be wrong. FT is there so just rotate until you find it.

The best way to check is to remove the valve cover and look at the timing marks on the cams
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nath981 View Post
a good way to find out if you're at TDC is to remove the plug and stick a rod or long screwdriver into the plug hole so that you can watch it as you turn the crank. Of course the rod will go up to its highest point when you are top dead center. That way there is no guessing. You can practice this easily with both pistons to verify position of the pistons.
+1. Or bbq skewer works well. When you do this it's sitting on the piston and you get a very good visual of Top Dead Center.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:08 AM
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Hmm....270 degrees? I read 1 1/4 turns from TDC of the rear. Okay, so If I kept going counter clockwise until I find "FT", pull the front cover, where would the cams be positioned so I know for sure I am at the correct "FT" mark for TDC on the front? (I appreciate your input).
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:13 AM
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I confirmed in that original post:
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
I too just installed a set from Truck. After removing the rear cover to align timing mark and cams, the front requires 450 degrees of counter clockwise rotation (1 1/4 turn) to be on the marks. Believe me, you don't need the hassle of removing the front head cover.
And if you haven't read, putting something in the plug hole can be deceiving. You have to make sure you are on the compression stroke.

Last edited by Wolverine; 09-03-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:22 AM
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I think 270 was mentioned b/c that's the degree amount used when setting timing from front to rear in the manual... so when you're going from rear to front you need to go 450 degrees.

And like aja said... FT is Front T(DC) so line up with that one.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:34 AM
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Not to sound like a smart ***, but I did go 1 1/4 and that brought me to "F" not "FT". So, if I continue rotating the crank counter clockwise and then find "FT" (which will be more than 1 1/4 turns btw) how do I know for sure I am on compression stroke ?
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:09 AM
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To be quite honest, now that you point that out, I only looked at the cam marks and 1 1/4 was dead on. If you are unsettled pull the head cover and view the cams.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:17 AM
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Update: I just turned the crank maybe an 1/8 turn and found the "FT" mark and am confident I'm lined up with the mark perfectly. I was just asking if anyone knew what the rear cam position looked like (since I have the rear cover off) to verify I am ABSOLUTELY at TDC, on the compression stroke, for the front. Thanks for your input I'm going to go ahead and remove old CCT and install the APE. Probably do the PAIR removal while I'm here too. Thanks and cross your fingers for me
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:20 AM
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Hope you got it Tebs. We're here to help, nothing was taken as smart ***.

If you need it: /how-do-i-take-off-front-cylinder-head-cover-help-9577/
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:20 AM
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Update: Okay I removed the old CCT and installed the APE (new gasket, blue thread lock, finger tight yada yada). There was NO Clicking noise when I removed the old CCT so that tells me I was correctly at TDC FRONT and I have not jumped a tooth. Correct? Good.

Now then I noticed when I removed the front stock cct it had a gray "cap" attached and the rear did not have this cap (see pics -I have also attached pics of what the REAR cams look like when the Front is "supposedly" at TDC following the "FT" mark as stated above.

At this point I will stop going any further until I hear from some senior members with feedback. Again I am pretty sure all is well except for the missing grey cap. Thanks for your patience and I greatly appreciate any feedback.
Attached Thumbnails Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)-dsc00647.jpg   Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)-dsc00646.jpg   Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)-dsc00645.jpg  
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:23 AM
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PMed and if you have the top off it is even better. Just turn it until the cam lobes are no longer in contact with the valves. when both are pointing up or down and in exact position the each cam is mirroring each other, it is actually TDC. It actually doesn't matter too much which you one you are at as long as there is no pressure on the valves. The better on is obviously when there is no pressure on the valves (pointing up) as when you remove the CCT the pressure will not cause the lobe to move. But even in the event you chose to have it pointed down, there is very limited movement which will cause the chain to jump. Just remember to zip tie the came in place and remove it when done and you're good






Originally Posted by Tebs View Post
Update: I just turned the crank maybe an 1/8 turn and found the "FT" mark and am confident I'm lined up with the mark perfectly. I was just asking if anyone knew what the rear cam position looked like (since I have the rear cover off) to verify I am ABSOLUTELY at TDC, on the compression stroke, for the front. Thanks for your input I'm going to go ahead and remove old CCT and install the APE. Probably do the PAIR removal while I'm here too. Thanks and cross your fingers for me
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:36 AM
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Sounds to me like everything is good.

Last edited by Wolverine; 09-03-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:41 AM
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Even missing the grey cap on the rear stock CCT?
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:45 AM
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Double check you didn't leave it in when withdrawing the old CCT.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:51 AM
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How? I cant reach down in there and the rear is already installed. (I hate to keep beating a dead horse here)
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:02 AM
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Look down, if you haven't put the cam cover back on, and see if it's still pressing against the cam chain. It should only be missing if someone has previously accessed the OEM CCTs and forgotten to replace the cap.

When all back together, remember to turn the engine over a few times using the 17mm access bolt - before starting her up. Listen for any untoward noises.

Last edited by Wicky; 09-03-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:12 AM
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I appreciate it - I'll update tomorrow (going to a cook out now) or Wed. If anyone else can think of anything in the meantime just let me know. Have a great holiday!
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
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So the piece that presses on the chain guide is missing? If it came off inside the head it is most likely down in the oil pan or on top of the gears just below the head. But, if it was already off I am sure it would have caused some damage already.

270 degrees is when going front to rear, my mistake. However, you can look at the FE and FI marks on the front cams (RE and RI for the rear) and if they line up with the head surface. The camlobes can also tell you. That info is in the ape to cct thread in knowledge base.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:08 PM
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UPDATE - Disaster avoided! In an effort to find the missing stock CCT "cap" I rotated the crank back to TDC for the REAR. I then looked down the cam cover (cover off naturally) and low and behold I see the second cap! Some how it actually stuck to the tensioner and when I installed the APE manual unit it went into the cap and secured it against the tensioner (I know it is hard to believe but keep reading I have a pic to prove it). So I backed out the APE unit (not the two bolts yet) and with a long screw driver held the cap to the APE unit to guide the cap into the cylinder hole (from where the CCT is inserted).

Once the APE unit fully retracted I then held the cap in place with a long screwdriver down the top of the cam and slowly retracted the two bolts holding the APE unit to the block. The gasket stayed in place,, I completely removed the APE unit, stuck my pinky in the hole of the block, then pushed the cap down the hole with the screwdriver against my pinky and SUCCESS! So the moral here is IF YOU ARE REPLACING STOCK CCTS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BOTH CAPS WHEN YOU REMOVE THEM! (SEE PICS)

In retrospect I'm glad I did this job (too embarrassed to tell everyone how long it has taken - okay 8 hours) but patience is mandatory.

Krikie I need a beer!

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom !!!......I'm take a breather and will start the bike later after dinner.
Attached Thumbnails Quick CCT question (changing OEM to APE)-dsc00656.jpg  
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:28 PM
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As the cap was pushed in with the APE's bolt against the tensioner you probably would have been fine - Still all sorted now and well done with your perseverance.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:00 PM
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I thought about that but then said, heck I'm already here why not try to take it out. Besides, another thought was what if over time the tension on the cap changes and moves the cap, changing the tension = disaster ...... its done now and no worries. I hope as I still havent started the engine yet. Thanks again for your help!
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:06 PM
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sweet,now you should have no worries.time for the next mod lol
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