Please Help :(
04-01-2010, 10:24 PM
#1
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
Please Help :(
I put my bike back together, thought I had everything totally ready after 6 months. Last step was put some coolant in it and ride into the sunset. And then I get water pouring out of the waterpump cover. I opened it up, didn't see anything wrong, cleaned the gasket area and resealed it. Poured more water in, and I see it was coming out of this nipple on the side of the cover. I know it has always been open since I got the bike, but now it's leaking. I fear I didn't get my waterpump impeller sealed correctly, and now I have water in my crankcase... 
although my oil doesn't seem to be any higher...
can anyone tell me what this nipple is for? I couldn't find it anywhere in the manual... I'll keep looking of course but any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks a lot.
although my oil doesn't seem to be any higher...can anyone tell me what this nipple is for? I couldn't find it anywhere in the manual... I'll keep looking of course but any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks a lot.
04-01-2010, 11:01 PM
#3
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
04-01-2010, 11:39 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 524
The nipple/hole is a telltale that lets you know whether either the mechanical seal or the oil seal is leaking.
It's in a no mans land between the oil seal that seals out the engine oil where the water pump drive shaft exits and the mechanical seal that seals the pump.
If water is running out in a stream it's because the water pump shaft was moved and is no longer exerting pressure on the mechanical seal.
There is a very specific measurement as to how far the shaft sticks out of the case.
The shaft is supposed to protrude through the ball bearing 16.35-16.62mm, measured from the bearing race to the flange of the shaft, i.e. the first step. Page 6-14 of the service manual will show what I'm talking about.
A leaking mechanical seal will not allow water into the engine, unless you removed the inner oil seal in which case water will flow past the bearing into the engine.
Take the cover back of and measure how far the shaft protrudes from the bearing.
BTW, do not ever use red silicone sealer on a Japanese engine.
The gasket surfaces are machined and matched so well that most of it will be squeezed out. Guess where the stuff goes that gets squeezed out on the inside ? It's a great way of seizing an engine when the oil pump pick up screens gets clogged or one the oil jets gets obstructed and no longer supplies oil to where it needs to be.
Use Honda Bond HT or Three Bond 1207B, both applied sparingly, about the thickness of a coat of paint.
Kai Ju
It's in a no mans land between the oil seal that seals out the engine oil where the water pump drive shaft exits and the mechanical seal that seals the pump.
If water is running out in a stream it's because the water pump shaft was moved and is no longer exerting pressure on the mechanical seal.
There is a very specific measurement as to how far the shaft sticks out of the case.
The shaft is supposed to protrude through the ball bearing 16.35-16.62mm, measured from the bearing race to the flange of the shaft, i.e. the first step. Page 6-14 of the service manual will show what I'm talking about.
A leaking mechanical seal will not allow water into the engine, unless you removed the inner oil seal in which case water will flow past the bearing into the engine.
Take the cover back of and measure how far the shaft protrudes from the bearing.
BTW, do not ever use red silicone sealer on a Japanese engine.
The gasket surfaces are machined and matched so well that most of it will be squeezed out. Guess where the stuff goes that gets squeezed out on the inside ? It's a great way of seizing an engine when the oil pump pick up screens gets clogged or one the oil jets gets obstructed and no longer supplies oil to where it needs to be.
Use Honda Bond HT or Three Bond 1207B, both applied sparingly, about the thickness of a coat of paint.
Kai Ju
04-02-2010, 06:02 AM
#6
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
thats what I was leaning towards, I had to replace my impeller, and I replaced the oil seal but not the mechanical seal, and I did not measure how far in it was pressed. Thanks for the tip!
04-02-2010, 10:12 AM
#8
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Independence, Oregon
Posts: 367
leak
Good info
The nipple/hole is a telltale that lets you know whether either the mechanical seal or the oil seal is leaking.
It's in a no mans land between the oil seal that seals out the engine oil where the water pump drive shaft exits and the mechanical seal that seals the pump.
If water is running out in a stream it's because the water pump shaft was moved and is no longer exerting pressure on the mechanical seal.
There is a very specific measurement as to how far the shaft sticks out of the case.
The shaft is supposed to protrude through the ball bearing 16.35-16.62mm, measured from the bearing race to the flange of the shaft, i.e. the first step. Page 6-14 of the service manual will show what I'm talking about.
A leaking mechanical seal will not allow water into the engine, unless you removed the inner oil seal in which case water will flow past the bearing into the engine.
Take the cover back of and measure how far the shaft protrudes from the bearing.
BTW, do not ever use red silicone sealer on a Japanese engine.
The gasket surfaces are machined and matched so well that most of it will be squeezed out. Guess where the stuff goes that gets squeezed out on the inside ? It's a great way of seizing an engine when the oil pump pick up screens gets clogged or one the oil jets gets obstructed and no longer supplies oil to where it needs to be.
Use Honda Bond HT or Three Bond 1207B, both applied sparingly, about the thickness of a coat of paint.
Kai Ju
It's in a no mans land between the oil seal that seals out the engine oil where the water pump drive shaft exits and the mechanical seal that seals the pump.
If water is running out in a stream it's because the water pump shaft was moved and is no longer exerting pressure on the mechanical seal.
There is a very specific measurement as to how far the shaft sticks out of the case.
The shaft is supposed to protrude through the ball bearing 16.35-16.62mm, measured from the bearing race to the flange of the shaft, i.e. the first step. Page 6-14 of the service manual will show what I'm talking about.
A leaking mechanical seal will not allow water into the engine, unless you removed the inner oil seal in which case water will flow past the bearing into the engine.
Take the cover back of and measure how far the shaft protrudes from the bearing.
BTW, do not ever use red silicone sealer on a Japanese engine.
The gasket surfaces are machined and matched so well that most of it will be squeezed out. Guess where the stuff goes that gets squeezed out on the inside ? It's a great way of seizing an engine when the oil pump pick up screens gets clogged or one the oil jets gets obstructed and no longer supplies oil to where it needs to be.
Use Honda Bond HT or Three Bond 1207B, both applied sparingly, about the thickness of a coat of paint.
Kai Ju
04-02-2010, 12:22 PM
#9
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
RTV is made for engine gaskets such as an intake manifold. On any type of engine, it's perfectly acceptable. It's an anaerobic sealer just like hondabond, or yamabond. It's much, much, much better than a paper bag and I have been using it for years without incident, so do not take that as the gospel. If you put on too thick a bead of yamabond, it will ooze into the crankcase as well. Its just a matter of proper application.
04-02-2010, 01:19 PM
#10
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: N.E. oHIo
Posts: 263
04-02-2010, 02:41 PM
#11
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 524
04-02-2010, 03:35 PM
#12
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
Perhaps before you get all smug and condescending you should read a label.
04-02-2010, 09:11 PM
#14
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
Well I found the source of my problem, the new impeller is not compatible with my mechanical seal! part of the mechanical seal is supposed to sit inside the impeller, but my new impeller is 1mm too small! so even when pressed in to the correct specification, the impeller is 4mm away from the seal! I MAY be able to take .5mm off the inside radius of the pump to make it fit, but I'm not positive. I imagine I will have to buy a new seal to make it fit. I doubt they have the option to order a different one...
04-02-2010, 10:37 PM
#16
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 524
What parts did you change ?
Take a look at the old assembly and check if may have missed something in the transfer.
Better yet, take a look at the manual and a parts catalog and compare you parts to what you should have.
Kai Ju
Take a look at the old assembly and check if may have missed something in the transfer.
Better yet, take a look at the manual and a parts catalog and compare you parts to what you should have.
Kai Ju
04-02-2010, 10:54 PM
#17
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,484
I remember the first time I remounted my clutch cover with the new gasket, it was a real pain because I needed 5 hands to hold it in place. I quickly found what worked really well was to dab some very thin spots of hondabond ht over the surface to hold the gasket in place and the install was a snap. Did you use the gasket or did you do it with just silicone like the oil pan?
04-02-2010, 11:06 PM
#18
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
A paper gasket goes between the side cover and engine case. You can apply a thin film of grease to make it easier to remove and possisbly reuse the gasket.
The RTV you have squeezed to the inside will end up in the oil pickup streainer. Don't use it. Simple as that.
As for the water pump... Hopefully you aren't driving the impeller in with a hammer.
You will learn these things with experience. Good on you, for trying. Make sure you understand the way the seals work. It is best to install the impeller rotor with a hydraulic press to keep from denting the bearing races and to control the depth. Ball bearings make contact with the race over a very small surface area, so it doesn't take a very substantial impact to damage the race.
The RTV you have squeezed to the inside will end up in the oil pickup streainer. Don't use it. Simple as that.
As for the water pump... Hopefully you aren't driving the impeller in with a hammer.
You will learn these things with experience. Good on you, for trying. Make sure you understand the way the seals work. It is best to install the impeller rotor with a hydraulic press to keep from denting the bearing races and to control the depth. Ball bearings make contact with the race over a very small surface area, so it doesn't take a very substantial impact to damage the race.
04-03-2010, 10:11 AM
#20
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
yeah you're all wrong lol like I stated above, the impeller is not compatible with the mechanical seal which came from the factory. the new impeller is almost exactly 1mm smaller inside diameter than the old one. The mechanical seal sits inside the bore of the impeller, and this impeller is too small. So when it is pressed in (not with a hammer but thanks again for condescending) exactly to spec, the seal is still 4mm away from the sealing surface. And as for the RTV, I did go to school for automotive technology, I'm not an idiot. there is no RTV inside my engine, and RTV will hold perfectly well. It is almost identical to yamabond or hondabond and fits this application perfectly.
04-03-2010, 03:53 PM
#25
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
Well he did put a window in the side case - I suppose he could see if there are red fleks of RTV floating around. 
btw my 99 has the nipple with a hose attached that routes to the chin spoiler so it will drip on the ground
btw my 99 has the nipple with a hose attached that routes to the chin spoiler so it will drip on the ground
04-03-2010, 05:24 PM
#26
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 342
well my rtv prowess aside, thanks for the great info from kai ju! And I would like to thank raptorrider, he just sold me a whole side cover, with impeller and all seals, the ignition pulse generator, and two stock cans PLUS two very nice D&D cans for $25! Anyone who is lucky enough to do business with him will be very happy. Stand up guy.
05-04-2010, 03:36 PM
#28
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Well, the problem isn't the VTR...
It's the fact that you take it to the dealer... Get out in the garage and start working on it... Your hourly wage (beer?) is a lot cheaper than the stealers...
It's the fact that you take it to the dealer... Get out in the garage and start working on it... Your hourly wage (beer?) is a lot cheaper than the stealers...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mcadena89
Technical Discussion
16
06-03-2009 12:04 AM
scottiemann
General Discussion
6
03-03-2007 07:48 AM
