Jet Kit Recommendations
 

So I went to my local mechanic, who used to do a lot of tuning on bikes and one superhawk for a colleague of his.

The PO removed a set of baffles from the stock exhaust and the mechanic said that I should be able to take care of the problem(no/very little power between 6 and 7k RPMs) with the new jet kit.

I was wondering if anybody had a recommendation for the new jets. I believe it has the stock set in which should be 45 pilot and 170 main?

Thank you

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/
Read this thread and you got your answers.

And buy Jack's adjustable mixture screws...

James

+1 :D

Well... opened up the carbs after receiving my jet kit and found a nice thumb sized split/hole in my front diaphragm... always something else

You bought a jet kit? What kind?

Seriously, the best results from hundreds of people on this forum is to simply change the pilots, and adjust the fuel mixture screws... Assuming you only have a modded exhaust.

Did you read that jetting thread?

James

Yea, it seemed to be solving more of the low-end problem rather than my mid/high end, plus I hope to keep adding aftermarket parts on the bike so the Dyno kit seemed like the best long-term solution.

PS. This is the correct site for krieger CCT's right? I guess its linking the header. Krieger Cam Chain Tensioners

"Yea, it seemed to be solving more of the low-end problem rather than my mid/high end, plus I hope to keep adding aftermarket parts on the bike so the Dyno kit seemed like the best long-term solution."

You may want to read it again.

"PS. This is the correct site for krieger CCT's right? I guess its linking the header"

Yes, just email him (bottom of page) and he will send you a quote.
I just installed mine last night as a matter of fact. I give Krieger excellent reviews based on my experience with him.

The '98 originals held up for nearly 40k miles.
Attachment 22196


Also, if you would, let us know where you end up buying new carb diaphrams.

Save 25% on OEM Motorcycle Parts | MotoSport there's the link to the list of them. Should all be the same part for each year from what I'm seeing. They had the cheapest I could find at $82 a piece where most places were showing $100 or so. Also free shipping.

Hangfly. Based on the photo of the installed Keiger CCTs you posted, I'm thinking that unless they come with a shorter adjusting bolt now, yours is way too tight. Mine doesn't look anywhere close to your. I could be way off on this, but it's something that gave me cause for concern.

Thanks for the "heads up" fellow HG pilot. Krieger's instructions say to install the short one on the rear chain, but I may be wrong. The adjuster is not too tight since I pulled the cover and looked down at my work. The adjustment is "finger tight" . But I may have to swap them. I need to add lock tight any way.
Dan

The rear does get the short one, but I have about a half inch of thread showing. The front is about twice that. If you had the covers off and the slack in the chain was OK, then.....
Don't want you to launch not clipped in.

Maybe my chains are loosey goosey.

Unhooked, Oh boy. Only did that once. Luckily is was during a tow and I avoided disaster. :)

My apologizes for the thread hi-jack.

Does this below include the diaphram?

1998 Honda SUPER HAWK - VTR1000
PISTON, VACUUM (16111-MBB-640)

Yes, same here. I started the hijacking.

Save 20% on 1999 Honda SUPER HAWK - VTR1000 OEM Carburetor Component Parts | MotoSport

Yes, here is the whole carb assembly diagram. Part #22 links to what I listed above, the diaphragm and the piston are all 1 piece.

Re-read the carb setup thread.


I'd save your Dynojet Kit $$$, keep stock needles (and maybe add a 0.20" #4 brass washer as a shim if you need to), keep stock #45 pilots, and increase your main jet sizes slightly ($15 for a pair of mains) and you'll be good to go. I ended up at 178F, 182R and could have done one step richer on both, but didn't feel like another trip into the carbs.


Make sure you have a stock filter and airbox first, and synch your carbs, or all this goes out the window.


The jack flash thumb screws are a nice addition for adjusting your idle mixture. I put them on my bike and it is handy.


A Dyno run with exhaust gas monitoring can help you make these decisions pretty cheaply.

Since you have to pull them off again anyways, follow this tutorial here and make sure you have the correct tension on the cam chains. It really helps seeing pictures of everything.

Already received and installed the Dyno jet kit, it recommended a 180F and 185R with my stock airbox, filter, and my modified exhaust. Carbs should be synched but thats on the list when I figure out the cheapest/best sync method.

The Dyno's needles are adjustable in the height department. What you're recommending seems like what I'll be doing, "shimming" the needle and going up on mains. But I'll also be drilling that hole in the vacuum piston which is making me nervous now($160 in parts)... and putting shorter springs in.

I don't know how many times I can read that carb setup guide. I understand what they're talking about. It's all trial and error so either way I'm learning how my bike will react. Maybe changing the pilot and shimming would have done it, hopefully this will also. Thanks again. Will keep updating.

Through the years being on this site, I have seen quite a few people epoxy that Dyno Jet hole shut after having issues. Not saying don't do it, but just thought I would throw that out there. Try it out before you drill the hole.

Edit: Here's a fantastic guide to tuning a Dynojet kit...click here.

For sure, it sounds like I shouldn't drill the holes or put the shorter springs in, more wasted monies... Hopefully it all works the first time with the new mains and lifting the needles. Lol the odds...

My fearless predictions:


The DJ 180/185 mains you have will be close to right or slightly rich (DJ mains flow slightly more than stock mains) and the needles will also be close or slightly rich in the mid-range (they have a different taper than stock).


Try how it runs without drilling the extra lift holes - they can be added for free, and epoxied shut for $5 if you decide they are an error.


I bought my bike used with K&N, TBR pipes and DynoJet kit with drilled slides.


Tossed the K&N - instantly better bottom and mid, ran great, was so rich at cruise (4,000 rpm) anyone riding behind me could smell it.


Fought the Dynojet needle clip settings, pulled out the DJ needles, epoxied the extra slide holes shut, replaced with stock needles with one extra shim front, two shims rear, installed stock main jets (175/178). Stinky richness gone, slight hesitation when whacking the throttle wide open.


A run on the Dyno showed a brief lean surge when whacking the throttle (slides moving too slowly), slightly too rich at cruising rpm under steady state, slightly lean at WOT high rpm.


End result:


Re-drilled the extra lift holes (to fix MY momentary lean surge - your results may vary), pulled a needle shim from the rear needle (now both have 1 extra shim over stock), went to 178F/182R main jets = runs like a raped ape, wheelies any time you whack the throttle above 3,500rpm in 1st, power wheelies at about 6,500 under WOT.


Reminder:


Only fix the problems you know you have - I'd start with replacing the slide with the torn diaphragm, and see how it runs. If the bike runs or acts lean at certain RPM, adjust accordingly - pilot and fuel screw primarily for idle and low rpm and low throttle settings, needle height for mid-range, lift holes to adjust how quickly slides open, main jets for WOT and high rpm.


Realize each portion of the carb affects the others.


The $70 I spent with a good Dyno operator (he knew what I wanted to achieve - good all around performance and throttle response, not just WOT top end HP) with an exhaust gas meter saved me two or three more trips into my carbs that it would have taken using trial and error.

Sounds good thank you thank for the tips! Ill stick with my 180F, 185R, and lift the needle according to the kit. I won't be drilling the hole but should I install the shorter springs that came with the kit, I know mine could be different but you mentioned a lag in the lift on yours?

I stayed with the stock springs.


The DJ springs are shorter in length, but appear to have the same # of coils per inch, and same thickness wire (as measured with my cheap-o calipers), which would indicate they are probably the same spring rate.


Rumors on the 'net say don't use the DJ springs, they are softer than stock, but I'm not sure there is a conclusive advantage or disadvantage to them.


From what I can see they shouldn't make much of a difference either way - but that is my very unscientific analysis.


They are easier to install because they are shorter. I reverted to primarily stock to eliminate as many variables as possible.

There definitely is something weird with that CCT - I have the Kreigers, and my rear CCT has about 1/2" of thread showing like Xeris does.

I did run the threads to the very top of the acorn nut. This way I have a triple locknut. Could that be the odd part?
Do you guys run the locknut against the acorn?

This is why I was asking about the Dyno springs, why did you re-drill the lift hole and not try the other springs? My mechanic was saying the springs should make the slides move easier. I understand there is a difference between speed and ease, just trying to gather as much info on this as possible.

I didn't try the other springs for two reasons (not saying I'm right, but it did work - on my bike):


I measured the springs - number of coils per inch, and coil thickness were the same for stock and DynoJet, only the length of the springs is different- so, other than pre-load, they are the same spring rate. Now, how much the 4" of pre-load on the stock springs vs. the 1" of pre-load on the DJ springs affects everything - who knows!


The Dyno operator I was working with recommended the "lift hole with stock springs" approach, and I believed him. Is that approach "right?" - its working pretty well for me, BUT, every engine is slightly different, and we're adjusting portions of the carb circuit at a time, so your results may indeed vary

Sooo, feel free to try the DJ springs first, with no lift hole. If you get a slight hesitation when you whack the throttle wide open - add the lift hole - you can always epoxy it shut. Just come to grips with the fact that you'll probably be making more than one trip into the carbs, depending upon how anal you are!


I could have left my bike well enough alone, and it would have been set up like yours will be, and run quite well, it just would have been stinky rich during cruise. I think it's more responsive and crisp as is, but it took several trips into the carbs and about 8 different pulls on the dyno to get it right.

Alright, so all I am waiting for are my vacuum pistons which should be in today. Since it has been posted here already I figured I would continue.

I installed my Krieger CCT's and they look like this. I think the back looks about right from what yall have said but is there too much thread showing on my front? Attachment 22172 Attachment 22173
I will be adding some loc-tite when I know they're good.

My other question is about the PAIR system. It seems like this is a pretty standard removal? Meaning it won't hurt anything? This is what they look like now so what I'm seeing is a blocked off PAIR system correct?
Attachment 22174
And then I can take this out? Or if I don't have a cap for the airbox where this connects should I just leave it? Attachment 22175
Then I read to just re-route the hoses, can I just remove them and cap the little inlet on the cam cover or should I just leave those hoses 'dangling'.

Well good luck reinventing the wheel.
Sorry if that sounds rude but all this stuff has been done and tried many times.

Your mid\high issue is the split diaphragm, so no jet kit would fix that issue,

Personally I would never put another DJ kit in a VTR.
Used them with good results on other bikes but not this one.

IMHO I do have a pretty good handle on these carbs and I personally spent close to 2 years trying to get a DJ kit to work correctly with no luck.
There was always a hole somewhere in the powerband.

So if you just have to run a kit, the go with FactoryPro or like the thread I wrote.... save your cash and just do a couple of tweaks and the bike will run just fine.

About the PAIR system, you can remove everything. Just plug the holes on the valve cover or buy the block off plates that members here sell (eBay as well). Also plug the hole that goes to the airbox.
You will want to leave that piece with the orange part inside the valve cover, since the orange part is the gasket.

8541Hawk, not rude, thank you for being candid, sadly I had received the jet kit before I got into the carbs(it's my first time and I was waiting to be taught by a friend).

The DJ guide said to up the jet size for the exhaust baffle bull I have so I'll give it a try(dealing with their different jet measurements we'll see). I didn't toss the original jets so I can just add them back if it's too rich. If they don't work you'll have another dude on your team to tell people not to re-jet.

I will try the springs to maybe get that extra 'spring' and if they don't work I have the originals and an extra set of carbs from my local shop(coincidence). After seeing the recommendations here, I knew I was going to try the short springs no matter what(I do like physics) and that I would be in the carbs more than once.

Please let me know if I'm totally off here.


CruxGNZ: Got it, it just seemed like(call 'em an acorn nut, nut, and fluted nut) the nut was really tightened against the acorn so I assumed it should stay there to hold that on, I'm def going to take off the acorn when I get the others tightened down so I don't lose that. I'm sure it's generic but I don't need that bouncing around at 70.

So I got that, but do my lengths look good on the bolts?

And: What would you call the those rubber covers here https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...val-how-20918/ in pic 4 that he caps with and I could use those on the valve cover correct? Yea, leave the gasket but the reed is correct? I'm finding a lot of this bike is half assed(Reeds flipped but hoses not capped or removed)...

Thank y'all soooo much. I just passed both my A+ cert tests and am waiting for that first magical ride of the season on the super. It's close...(In the meantime I have a '93 Nighthawk 750 for sale in MI ; ) )

Yup I understand that now but do my lengths look ok? When you were explaining to the other guy you said about a half inch on the rear and double that on the front. My front seems like it's going to be out more than that.

You can not use the external bolt as an accurate tension measurment. You should really pull the covers and check the chain "up and down" free play. (5-7mm I believe?) Other members were commenting that when the tension is checked, on a typical VTR, there will be about a 1/2" of threads showing on the rear Krieger bolt. Mine has less for some reason.
But eyeballing the threads is not a reliable chain tension adjustment method.

Hangfly and Hondahawk, since I never installed Krieger CCT's before, I stupidly assumed something. I assumed the nut against the CCT body was actually part of the CCT body. Please disregard my above statements about the jam nut.

If the body of the CCT is threaded, then the nut against the CCT would be the jam nut. Looking on another monitor (I was on my phone the last few times and couldn't see very well), I can see that the acorn nut is not staked, so the thinner nut is the jam nut for the acorn nut. You in fact had it right and I am a real putz! Now I know what you meant about removing the acorn nut so it didn't fall off at 70.

I appologize and I'm going to delete what I wrote in my above post.

I understand Krieger CCT's come with really good instructions. Just follow those.

Yea, I really don't wanna take that front CAM cover off...

Then the best bet is to thread them in finger tight and then back off a bit. The amount (fraction of turn) to back off depends on who you ask.

Update: I got the bike all back together last night. Went with 180f/185r main jets, dynojet springs, new diaphragms, Krieger CCT's, PAIR removed, and new air filter. She runs like a bat out of hell now, exhaust doesn't seem to be too rich so far... She scares the shit out of me now. Time for new brakes lol. Thanks y'all for the tips.