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issue setting my cams

Old 06-09-2011, 06:05 PM
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issue setting my cams

ok as most know i am trying to set up my cams and timing. my back one was way off but the bike still ran. i took the rear cover off the cylinder and went to adjust the cams. and found there are 3 cycles when you turn the engine over. only one of them has the cam lobes facing each other at every rotation of the engine. the other two only every 2nd rotation has the cam lobes facing each other. the manual does not specify which of these is the way to go. my take is that each time the engine rotates the lobes should face each other at every rotation. any help would be great. thanks guys
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:24 PM
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No, it's a 4 cycle engine.. If the valved all opened every cycle it wouldn't do much good.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:51 PM
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What he said ^... the cams face up and towards each other in the rear once every four rotations. They face up and away from each other in the front every four rotations (don't confuse the two!)
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:57 PM
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i know that. the valves do open every cycle, my problem is that all but one cycle has a different rotation it is hard to explain. how do i figure out which cycle is top dead center on the compression stroke. not used to over head cam engines.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:01 PM
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the way it is set right now they face each other every rotation. the book says to set the cams and then rotate the engine 2 full turns and they should line up again. i did that and the thing run like crap. the way it is running now i have my power back but at idle the rpm flux up and down. i have done 3 rotations of the cams so far so i bet if i do one more they will be where they need to be,,,, huh?
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:01 PM
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Do you have a manual... and is your front cover still off?
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:07 PM
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here is a link to the manual.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-manual-11365/

refer to page 8-21
this is a reference to the timing marks.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:10 PM
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i have a haynes manual
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:12 PM
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The reason that I ask is to get the timing right for both cylinder you follow this process:

Turn the engine until the FT mark is aligned in a way that the front cam lobes are pointing away from each other. It sounds like these are already timed so shouldn't be a problem for you. So now you have TDC for front cylinder on the compression stroke.

Now turn the motor 270* (or 3/4 turn) counterclockwise and align the RT mark. The rear cam lobes should be pointing toward each other (and the RE/RT marks lined up with the head as shown in the manual)

Hope this gets you started
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:13 PM
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ok,sorry,didnt realize,if you have this down loaded,refer to the page,it tells you all the proper place of the marks.
make sure the cylinder is at top dead center for the head you working on. than reset your timing.
this should get you back where it belongs.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:14 PM
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my front cylinder is just fine timing never got effected by the cct change.
the back moved and was way off. i dont even know how it was running but it did.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:16 PM
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did you get it right or are you still trying to set.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:17 PM
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it says to set top dead center on the compression stroke, which stroke is that. the compression stroke on the front how many turn before the rear cylinder is TDC on compression stroke? is it every 2nd stroke is a compression stroke fornt to rear
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:18 PM
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i gave up for the night. but gonna try again tomorrow.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:27 PM
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if i wouldve known earlier,i wouldve take pics of all markings on cams,i helped a member today with the cct's and didnt think to take pics of positions.
hopefully,someone will chime in and get you the answer you need.
not to sure of rotations or where it needs to be.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:44 PM
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Going back to basics...It's a 2:1 ratio Crankshaft to Camshaft.

The camshaft makes only 1 revolution for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. So The crank will hit TDC twice in a complete 4 stroke cycle, but only one of those TDC positions is on compression. That's where the cam sprocket timing marks come in. If both cam lobes are pointing up, you're on compression. Both cam sprocket marks and TDC on the crank should line up.

Of course with our V-twin, each cylinder has to be done individually, as per the manual.

Last edited by VTRsurfer; 06-09-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:10 AM
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there are 4 rotations of the cam's per cycle right. i have changed the position of the cams 3 time so far, so in theory if i rotate the cams one more time i should be good, right? because i have tried the other 3 and it has gotten better each time i try it. since it is 4 cycle that means each cylinder should fire every other rotation right? then the compression stroke would be every other one as well too? if all this is right, i know what i have to do now and that is tho set top dead center one more time past the current position and then reset the cams to TDC marks for the 4th time. if that dont work i dont know what else to do. we'll find out later today.
thanks for everyones help on this.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:01 AM
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Here pic that I repeatedly steal to show this.. lol

Name:  DSCN0403a.jpg
Views: 31
Size:  140.1 KB

When the timing mark is on RT and the rear cams look like that, you are on TDC compression for the rear cyl.

Last edited by lazn; 06-10-2011 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:12 AM
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Oh, and for the front they point out at TDC. (I just recently learned this)
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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i know all of this btu i am starting from scratch, in a normal set up on the compression stroke the cams would look like that. but i am trying to find the compression stroke on the rear cylinder and trying not to have to pull the front cover off again. that was a pain in the RUMP.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:53 PM
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Well so long as you got it looking like that when the piston is all the way up it will run.

If you are off when compared to the front all that will happen is it will run like a big single cyl and lose some power due to both exhaust trying to push out at the same time. (it is a "wasted spark" setup, so the spark plug fires on the top of the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke)
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:56 PM
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Pages 8-20 through 8-25 of the https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-manual-11365/ show how to do it. If timing was lost you kinda do have to remove the other valve cover.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:17 PM
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thats is it, i have lost time. but figured out a way to do it without pulling the front cover....i am going to pull the rear spark plug and cycle the engine until i get compression then line up the FT mark and do the 3/4 turn to the RT mark and then set the cams to neutral and i should be fine. doing or trying it that way is a hell of alot easier than doing the cover way.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:19 PM
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iazn is that your bike with you on it? i love the yellow on these bikes...
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:14 PM
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Why not just take off the rear valve cover? It takes a whole 2-3 mins to take it off.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:43 PM
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the rear will be off. i dont have an issue with adjusting it i just have to get the front and rear cylinder cams synced up so it will run right.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:39 AM
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i think i have it now, i have to take it for a ride to make sure but it run good at idle has its power back.. i still do however have a tick in the bottom end somewhere during acceleration. i cant quite figure it out....
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 3amta3 View Post
iazn is that your bike with you on it? i love the yellow on these bikes...
Yep, that's me.

RE: ticking noise, are you sure it is not an exhaust leak, those can sound like a tick sometimes.
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:48 PM
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i dont think it is. it almost sounds like a clutch noise or trans gear noise.. it is more of a rattle sound not so much a tick anymore.... i have to get it on the road to make sure the problem is fixed. i just road it up the road and i def have the power back now i just have to see if it will miss and backfire under heavy acceleration like it did before. if it all works as it is supposed to and betteer than before. i can live with the bit of a rattle for now. i have someone in my area that might be able to help me out with the rattle later down the road.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:53 PM
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I kind of have same issue with a ticking noise. It reminds me of a lifter tick like on a car engine. A few weeks ago I bought my SH from a guy who's a service tech at a motorcycle dealer and he had just replaced the cct's with another set of stock/auto cct's. He even showed me one of the bent valves he had to replace from the old cct's failing. When I pull the clutch lever in the noise doesn't go away. As the rpm's increase the ticking noise goes faster. When I'm crusing in 6th gear about 3000-3500rpm's the ticking sounds more like a rattling. Would it maybe go away if I switched it over to manual cct's?
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