issue setting my cams
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
issue setting my cams
ok as most know i am trying to set up my cams and timing. my back one was way off but the bike still ran. i took the rear cover off the cylinder and went to adjust the cams. and found there are 3 cycles when you turn the engine over. only one of them has the cam lobes facing each other at every rotation of the engine. the other two only every 2nd rotation has the cam lobes facing each other. the manual does not specify which of these is the way to go. my take is that each time the engine rotates the lobes should face each other at every rotation. any help would be great. thanks guys
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
What he said ^... the cams face up and towards each other in the rear once every four rotations. They face up and away from each other in the front every four rotations (don't confuse the two!)
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
i know that. the valves do open every cycle, my problem is that all but one cycle has a different rotation it is hard to explain. how do i figure out which cycle is top dead center on the compression stroke. not used to over head cam engines.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
the way it is set right now they face each other every rotation. the book says to set the cams and then rotate the engine 2 full turns and they should line up again. i did that and the thing run like crap. the way it is running now i have my power back but at idle the rpm flux up and down. i have done 3 rotations of the cams so far so i bet if i do one more they will be where they need to be,,,, huh?
the boss
SuperBike
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,182
From: largo,fl
here is a link to the manual.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-manual-11365/
refer to page 8-21
this is a reference to the timing marks.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-manual-11365/
refer to page 8-21
this is a reference to the timing marks.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
The reason that I ask is to get the timing right for both cylinder you follow this process:
Turn the engine until the FT mark is aligned in a way that the front cam lobes are pointing away from each other. It sounds like these are already timed so shouldn't be a problem for you. So now you have TDC for front cylinder on the compression stroke.
Now turn the motor 270* (or 3/4 turn) counterclockwise and align the RT mark. The rear cam lobes should be pointing toward each other (and the RE/RT marks lined up with the head as shown in the manual)
Hope this gets you started
Turn the engine until the FT mark is aligned in a way that the front cam lobes are pointing away from each other. It sounds like these are already timed so shouldn't be a problem for you. So now you have TDC for front cylinder on the compression stroke.
Now turn the motor 270* (or 3/4 turn) counterclockwise and align the RT mark. The rear cam lobes should be pointing toward each other (and the RE/RT marks lined up with the head as shown in the manual)
Hope this gets you started
the boss
SuperBike
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,182
From: largo,fl
ok,sorry,didnt realize,if you have this down loaded,refer to the page,it tells you all the proper place of the marks.
make sure the cylinder is at top dead center for the head you working on. than reset your timing.
this should get you back where it belongs.
make sure the cylinder is at top dead center for the head you working on. than reset your timing.
this should get you back where it belongs.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
it says to set top dead center on the compression stroke, which stroke is that. the compression stroke on the front how many turn before the rear cylinder is TDC on compression stroke? is it every 2nd stroke is a compression stroke fornt to rear
the boss
SuperBike
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,182
From: largo,fl
if i wouldve known earlier,i wouldve take pics of all markings on cams,i helped a member today with the cct's and didnt think to take pics of positions.
hopefully,someone will chime in and get you the answer you need.
not to sure of rotations or where it needs to be.
hopefully,someone will chime in and get you the answer you need.
not to sure of rotations or where it needs to be.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,452
From: San Clemente, CA
Going back to basics...It's a 2:1 ratio Crankshaft to Camshaft.
The camshaft makes only 1 revolution for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. So The crank will hit TDC twice in a complete 4 stroke cycle, but only one of those TDC positions is on compression. That's where the cam sprocket timing marks come in. If both cam lobes are pointing up, you're on compression. Both cam sprocket marks and TDC on the crank should line up.
Of course with our V-twin, each cylinder has to be done individually, as per the manual.
The camshaft makes only 1 revolution for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. So The crank will hit TDC twice in a complete 4 stroke cycle, but only one of those TDC positions is on compression. That's where the cam sprocket timing marks come in. If both cam lobes are pointing up, you're on compression. Both cam sprocket marks and TDC on the crank should line up.
Of course with our V-twin, each cylinder has to be done individually, as per the manual.
Last edited by VTRsurfer; Jun 9, 2011 at 09:47 PM.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
there are 4 rotations of the cam's per cycle right. i have changed the position of the cams 3 time so far, so in theory if i rotate the cams one more time i should be good, right? because i have tried the other 3 and it has gotten better each time i try it. since it is 4 cycle that means each cylinder should fire every other rotation right? then the compression stroke would be every other one as well too? if all this is right, i know what i have to do now and that is tho set top dead center one more time past the current position and then reset the cams to TDC marks for the 4th time. if that dont work i dont know what else to do. we'll find out later today.
thanks for everyones help on this.
thanks for everyones help on this.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Here pic that I repeatedly steal to show this.. lol
When the timing mark is on RT and the rear cams look like that, you are on TDC compression for the rear cyl.
When the timing mark is on RT and the rear cams look like that, you are on TDC compression for the rear cyl.
Last edited by lazn; Jun 10, 2011 at 09:17 AM.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
i know all of this btu i am starting from scratch, in a normal set up on the compression stroke the cams would look like that. but i am trying to find the compression stroke on the rear cylinder and trying not to have to pull the front cover off again. that was a pain in the RUMP.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Well so long as you got it looking like that when the piston is all the way up it will run.
If you are off when compared to the front all that will happen is it will run like a big single cyl and lose some power due to both exhaust trying to push out at the same time. (it is a "wasted spark" setup, so the spark plug fires on the top of the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke)
If you are off when compared to the front all that will happen is it will run like a big single cyl and lose some power due to both exhaust trying to push out at the same time. (it is a "wasted spark" setup, so the spark plug fires on the top of the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke)
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Pages 8-20 through 8-25 of the https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-manual-11365/ show how to do it. If timing was lost you kinda do have to remove the other valve cover.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
thats is it, i have lost time. but figured out a way to do it without pulling the front cover....i am going to pull the rear spark plug and cycle the engine until i get compression then line up the FT mark and do the 3/4 turn to the RT mark and then set the cams to neutral and i should be fine. doing or trying it that way is a hell of alot easier than doing the cover way.
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
i think i have it now, i have to take it for a ride to make sure but it run good at idle has its power back.. i still do however have a tick in the bottom end somewhere during acceleration. i cant quite figure it out....
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Thread Starter
Jack of all Master of non
Superstock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 297
From: Jacksonville,fl
i dont think it is. it almost sounds like a clutch noise or trans gear noise.. it is more of a rattle sound not so much a tick anymore.... i have to get it on the road to make sure the problem is fixed. i just road it up the road and i def have the power back now i just have to see if it will miss and backfire under heavy acceleration like it did before. if it all works as it is supposed to and betteer than before. i can live with the bit of a rattle for now. i have someone in my area that might be able to help me out with the rattle later down the road.
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 29
From: Racine, WI.
I kind of have same issue with a ticking noise. It reminds me of a lifter tick like on a car engine. A few weeks ago I bought my SH from a guy who's a service tech at a motorcycle dealer and he had just replaced the cct's with another set of stock/auto cct's. He even showed me one of the bent valves he had to replace from the old cct's failing. When I pull the clutch lever in the noise doesn't go away. As the rpm's increase the ticking noise goes faster. When I'm crusing in 6th gear about 3000-3500rpm's the ticking sounds more like a rattling. Would it maybe go away if I switched it over to manual cct's?
