FIXED: new superhawk owner, running issue constant throttle
02-21-2016, 05:11 PM
#31
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Squid
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ive cleaned carbs out
it idles fine with no problem, no choke to start hold the throttle to about 2000rpm for about 5 seconds and itll idle fine.
i can put it in 3rd gear at around 30mph open the throttle and itll straighten my arms out and pulls fine.
open the throttle full in top gear it keeps pulling but ive not taken it over 120 but it seems fine all the way up there.
its just cruising at a constant speed, it will feel like its missfiring untill i release the throttle a small bit or open it up but as soon as i stop opening the throttle its back to surging, it seems to be worse as it warms up and its much worse at higher rpm, at 3k i barely notice it but 4k+ i notice it, 100+ it feels like im on and off the throttle a little.
ive got stock jets oem filter and such, i need to see what needles they need, i have 2 carbs us + uk spec ones and the needles are the same.
also i have 3 holes in the slides? ive read 2 is normal and some kits say drill a 3rd...
what about this?
got the needles out, theyre stock needles with a metal washer and a thicker plastic washer.
so from here should i...
put spare slides in which only have 2 holes.
stock needles with no shim
45 or 48 pilots?
and 175 or 180 or 190 main?
and stock or k&n filter?
2 1/4 turns on front mixture screw
2 1/2 turns on rear mixture screw?
it idles fine with no problem, no choke to start hold the throttle to about 2000rpm for about 5 seconds and itll idle fine.
i can put it in 3rd gear at around 30mph open the throttle and itll straighten my arms out and pulls fine.
open the throttle full in top gear it keeps pulling but ive not taken it over 120 but it seems fine all the way up there.
its just cruising at a constant speed, it will feel like its missfiring untill i release the throttle a small bit or open it up but as soon as i stop opening the throttle its back to surging, it seems to be worse as it warms up and its much worse at higher rpm, at 3k i barely notice it but 4k+ i notice it, 100+ it feels like im on and off the throttle a little.
ive got stock jets oem filter and such, i need to see what needles they need, i have 2 carbs us + uk spec ones and the needles are the same.
also i have 3 holes in the slides? ive read 2 is normal and some kits say drill a 3rd...
what about this?
got the needles out, theyre stock needles with a metal washer and a thicker plastic washer.
so from here should i...
put spare slides in which only have 2 holes.
stock needles with no shim
45 or 48 pilots?
and 175 or 180 or 190 main?
and stock or k&n filter?
2 1/4 turns on front mixture screw
2 1/2 turns on rear mixture screw?
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-21-2016 at 05:52 PM.
02-21-2016, 10:59 PM
#32
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Follow Hawk8432s guide. It works. Pics in there of the slides.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/
02-22-2016, 07:50 AM
#33
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Definitely do Hawk's carb setup thread, take his advice on filling one of the slide holes, and installing size #4 washers to lift the stock needles a bit. The only thing you'll really need to figure out is whether size 45 or 48 pilots work better for your situation, and the exact mixture screw setting for front and rear.
Once you do this you'll be straight
By the way, when testing this all out do not look at speed so much, look at the specific rpm the problem exists. For dialing it all in i recommend a low speed and 3rd or 4th gear. This will allow the revs to rise slowly so you can see exactly where the problem lies.
James
Once you do this you'll be straight
By the way, when testing this all out do not look at speed so much, look at the specific rpm the problem exists. For dialing it all in i recommend a low speed and 3rd or 4th gear. This will allow the revs to rise slowly so you can see exactly where the problem lies.
James
02-22-2016, 08:14 AM
#34
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Squid
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ok so filled front hole
#48s in both pilots
standard mains
fitted 1 of the shims i had that came with the kit to front and 2 to the rear.
front screw at 2 1/4
rear at 2 1/2
after putting vaccum hose in wrong place
sorted now its running
need to take it for a test.
#48s in both pilots
standard mains
fitted 1 of the shims i had that came with the kit to front and 2 to the rear.
front screw at 2 1/4
rear at 2 1/2
after putting vaccum hose in wrong place
sorted now its running
need to take it for a test.
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-22-2016 at 09:56 AM.
02-22-2016, 10:25 AM
#35
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Not sure you saw it at the bottom of the previous page but you might want to service the K&N (clean and re oil) or better still, fit a standard filter.
Last edited by Wicky; 02-22-2016 at 10:31 AM.
02-22-2016, 10:43 AM
#36
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standard filter is in it
it came with a metric f**k ton of spares and the oem filter was one of them.
along with
standard brake hoses
standard undertray
standard screen
standard levers
standard jets
standard bellypan
brand new in packet headlight
oem grips and throttle tube
spare carbs
oem exhausts
oem indicators
touch up pens
probably more but ive not been through it all yet lol
it came with a metric f**k ton of spares and the oem filter was one of them.
along with
standard brake hoses
standard undertray
standard screen
standard levers
standard jets
standard bellypan
brand new in packet headlight
oem grips and throttle tube
spare carbs
oem exhausts
oem indicators
touch up pens
probably more but ive not been through it all yet lol
02-22-2016, 11:11 AM
#37
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I found standard slides the best for my set up.
What about the fuel cap?
Maybe it is causing some sort of vacuum lock and momentarily starving the bike of fuel?
If the standard cap is in with your spares refit it and see what happens.
What about the fuel cap?
Maybe it is causing some sort of vacuum lock and momentarily starving the bike of fuel?
If the standard cap is in with your spares refit it and see what happens.
02-22-2016, 12:06 PM
#38
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took it for a test and its still doing it :/
bought one of those adjustment screw wrenches to see if that does anything.
still persists over 4000 rpm at a constant speed.
it does pop under decleration a lot if that helps?
bought one of those adjustment screw wrenches to see if that does anything.
still persists over 4000 rpm at a constant speed.
it does pop under decleration a lot if that helps?
02-22-2016, 12:28 PM
#39
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It sounds like you are very close.
I would try the stock needles with .030/.040 shim washers added. This may be the fastest way to get the needles where they should be. Do the spare carbs contain the stock needles to borrow?
Make sure there are no vacuum leaks in any part of the system.
Synch the carbs.
I would try the stock needles with .030/.040 shim washers added. This may be the fastest way to get the needles where they should be. Do the spare carbs contain the stock needles to borrow?
Make sure there are no vacuum leaks in any part of the system.
Synch the carbs.
02-22-2016, 12:41 PM
#41
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So I believe the 'carb set up" article from Hawk boils down to these mods vs stock:
Install a set of #48 pilot jets. 2 1\4 turns in the front and 2 1\2 turns rear.
Shim needles. Remove the stock thin washer that is under the front needle and leave it in place on the rear. Then add .040" washers to both.
Epoxy one hole in front slide.
Also...You may or may not want to check the TPS and set to 500 ohms.
Install a set of #48 pilot jets. 2 1\4 turns in the front and 2 1\2 turns rear.
Shim needles. Remove the stock thin washer that is under the front needle and leave it in place on the rear. Then add .040" washers to both.
Epoxy one hole in front slide.
Also...You may or may not want to check the TPS and set to 500 ohms.
02-22-2016, 01:59 PM
#44
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"#4 washers work fine and you can get them at most hardware stores."
They are about .040 " thick I believe.
Also, read all the comment on the "Carb set up" and associated replies. This will tell you to not get the emulsion tubes and stock needles switched from front to rear. They need to be in the correct carb.
They are about .040 " thick I believe.
Also, read all the comment on the "Carb set up" and associated replies. This will tell you to not get the emulsion tubes and stock needles switched from front to rear. They need to be in the correct carb.
02-23-2016, 07:53 AM
#45
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checked a few things today and noticed i have a tiny but not really anything to worry about air leak from the front carb rubber.
also the front pipe is running 100 degrees colder than the rear.
he suggested valve clearences could be the problem.
£25 for 30 mins to do a leakdown and compression test or £50 if it takes an hour
soo how hard is it to check clearences?
should i just pay the £25 and get it checked or take it apart and check myself
also the front pipe is running 100 degrees colder than the rear.
he suggested valve clearences could be the problem.
£25 for 30 mins to do a leakdown and compression test or £50 if it takes an hour
soo how hard is it to check clearences?
should i just pay the £25 and get it checked or take it apart and check myself
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-23-2016 at 08:02 AM.
02-24-2016, 02:45 AM
#47
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i dont have the tools, i used to have them but an impromptu house move resulted in me ending up with 0 tools
i have accumulated enough tools to do the shims myself however the last engine i was inside was a zxr 750 h1 some years ago so a little nervous about getting into this one.
i have accumulated enough tools to do the shims myself however the last engine i was inside was a zxr 750 h1 some years ago so a little nervous about getting into this one.
02-24-2016, 09:54 AM
#48
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Your air leak around the intake boot is probably playing more havoc than you can imagine, and you may be trying to jet it out.
Definitely repair the air leak by replacing the rubber boot, get the valves adjusted, and synch the carbs. The low temperature reading seems to contradict that, though - lean would be too rich. anyway, any air leak after the carb is bad.
I disagree with epoxying the lift hole shut in the slide. I tested slides on the dyno stock, with one hole epoxied shut, and with the extra lift hole.
Throttle response was slower, and showed a momentary lean condition with the hole epoxied shut. The richer pilots in the carb set up thread help mask this. All the lift holes do is change the speed at which the slides open or close, so should have no affect at constant cruise.
My end result:
45 pilots
178/180 mains (and could have gone to 180/182 for a little more power but was tired of pulling carbs over and over, stock is 175/178). The 190's you're referencing are definitely way too rich.
Stock needles with 1 stock metal shim washer underneath, which measures approximately .020". You can add a washer under the needles which will richen it up if you want - I've gone back and forth on my bike.
I'm not familiar with a plastic washer under the needles, and it is not shown on the Honda OEM parts schematic.
Hence my comments that the carb setup thread is misleading - stock is pretty darn good - a little lean on the mains, and a little lean on the needles - maybe.
Get those 190 mains out of there. If it still stutters at 4,000 its most likely not a carb problem.
Definitely repair the air leak by replacing the rubber boot, get the valves adjusted, and synch the carbs. The low temperature reading seems to contradict that, though - lean would be too rich. anyway, any air leak after the carb is bad.
I disagree with epoxying the lift hole shut in the slide. I tested slides on the dyno stock, with one hole epoxied shut, and with the extra lift hole.
Throttle response was slower, and showed a momentary lean condition with the hole epoxied shut. The richer pilots in the carb set up thread help mask this. All the lift holes do is change the speed at which the slides open or close, so should have no affect at constant cruise.
My end result:
45 pilots
178/180 mains (and could have gone to 180/182 for a little more power but was tired of pulling carbs over and over, stock is 175/178). The 190's you're referencing are definitely way too rich.
Stock needles with 1 stock metal shim washer underneath, which measures approximately .020". You can add a washer under the needles which will richen it up if you want - I've gone back and forth on my bike.
I'm not familiar with a plastic washer under the needles, and it is not shown on the Honda OEM parts schematic.
Hence my comments that the carb setup thread is misleading - stock is pretty darn good - a little lean on the mains, and a little lean on the needles - maybe.
Get those 190 mains out of there. If it still stutters at 4,000 its most likely not a carb problem.
Last edited by AndyMX47; 02-24-2016 at 09:56 AM. Reason: mis-read temperature reading quote
02-24-2016, 10:45 AM
#49
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i said a bit earlier it was all set back to stock and its still doing it no improvement at all, it does feel a bit down on power now though it lifted the front just but i had to put effort into it to get it to lift.
so the problems i have are tiny air leak on front boot
popping and back firing now and then
front header pipe 100 degrees cooler than rear.
so the problems i have are tiny air leak on front boot
popping and back firing now and then
front header pipe 100 degrees cooler than rear.
02-24-2016, 11:53 AM
#50
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As stated earlier, any air leak at carbs is a major problem.
I have remote vac lines for syncing carbs. Once whilst out riding the front line came off and the bike still ran but popped badly on the over run, was down on power and sounded flat.
I replaced the hose and all was well again. Check that the plugs are tight in the inlet manifolds on the heads where you would fit remote vac lines. Make sure the carbs are properly seated in the rubbers and that the clamps are still serviceable.
What a nightmare, get it right and you will love it.
I have remote vac lines for syncing carbs. Once whilst out riding the front line came off and the bike still ran but popped badly on the over run, was down on power and sounded flat.
I replaced the hose and all was well again. Check that the plugs are tight in the inlet manifolds on the heads where you would fit remote vac lines. Make sure the carbs are properly seated in the rubbers and that the clamps are still serviceable.
What a nightmare, get it right and you will love it.
02-24-2016, 01:43 PM
#51
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i see what youre saying, i did have the carbs off and put them back on so surely the air leak would have changed in volume as im sure its not split just not seated properly, the front did just pop off when i took them off the first time so i thought that may have been it but power seems to be fine just not at a cruise.
cant really sync carbs till sunday as i share a parking area with a shop and my bikes not quiet.
cant really sync carbs till sunday as i share a parking area with a shop and my bikes not quiet.
02-25-2016, 09:02 AM
#52
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PROGRESS!
i read up online about tps and coils went to go check...
looking for the tps i saw the front cylinder boot... it wasnt even attached i could see a gap!
got the airbox off and the carb pretty much fell off, which is the same as it was when i pulled it off the first time it was so easy to come off and even easier to go back on.. or so i thought.. clearly i had thought it went on easy but it wasnt going on at all just felt like it had! more about that shortly...
tps was at 830...
quick muck about carb balance yada yada
so i set about putting it to 500.. wouldnt go so as per a guide here i popped the sleeves out and made the slots longer.. putting it back in i butchered it heard a crack .. pulled it apart to see and i had broken it inside
luckily had my spare so got the dremel out and cut a slot and removed the tps from other carbs, fitted and got it dead on 500 when screwed up tight!
so now tps is right.. the carb issue..
i got the back on and for the life of me couldnt get front carb to seat..
so i reversed it and did the front and noticed the carbs seemed offset from where they should be
loads of swearing my full 12 stone and lots of wd40 i got them in!
so hopefully this may have solved my issue with surging !!
i read up online about tps and coils went to go check...
looking for the tps i saw the front cylinder boot... it wasnt even attached i could see a gap!
got the airbox off and the carb pretty much fell off, which is the same as it was when i pulled it off the first time it was so easy to come off and even easier to go back on.. or so i thought.. clearly i had thought it went on easy but it wasnt going on at all just felt like it had! more about that shortly...
tps was at 830...
quick muck about carb balance yada yada
so i set about putting it to 500.. wouldnt go so as per a guide here i popped the sleeves out and made the slots longer.. putting it back in i butchered it heard a crack .. pulled it apart to see and i had broken it inside
luckily had my spare so got the dremel out and cut a slot and removed the tps from other carbs, fitted and got it dead on 500 when screwed up tight!so now tps is right.. the carb issue..
i got the back on and for the life of me couldnt get front carb to seat..
so i reversed it and did the front and noticed the carbs seemed offset from where they should be
loads of swearing my full 12 stone and lots of wd40 i got them in!
so hopefully this may have solved my issue with surging !!
02-25-2016, 11:11 AM
#54
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just took it for a ride, it runs a lot worse now ive cut most of the air flow from the leak and the surging is still there.
if i rev it to 5k in neutral and off the throttle itll pop with small flames out the exhaust so its overfueling so much!
luckily 2 pilot adjuster wrenches arrived today
will get on those when im free next.
its also drinking fuel worse than a vtr !
if i rev it to 5k in neutral and off the throttle itll pop with small flames out the exhaust so its overfueling so much!
luckily 2 pilot adjuster wrenches arrived today
will get on those when im free next.
its also drinking fuel worse than a vtr !
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-25-2016 at 11:35 AM.
02-26-2016, 08:28 AM
#55
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Insert angry face...
adjust pilot screws with a co2 meter, called local honda to ask what the co2 should be at... "we will call you back" .. didnt seem too impressed i was doing the testing myself.
never called back
looking from the back, left exhaust was at 10 and right was at 5.3
got them both around the same
no change still surging and still popping on deceleration.
i did notice that with choke on it was much better, still doing it a little but nowhere near as bad.
adjust pilot screws with a co2 meter, called local honda to ask what the co2 should be at... "we will call you back" .. didnt seem too impressed i was doing the testing myself.
never called back
looking from the back, left exhaust was at 10 and right was at 5.3
got them both around the same
no change still surging and still popping on deceleration.
i did notice that with choke on it was much better, still doing it a little but nowhere near as bad.
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-26-2016 at 08:41 AM.
02-26-2016, 11:47 AM
#56
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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FIXED!!
FIXED!!
FIXED!!
FIXED!!
WOOOOO
had a thought about everything ive done, smaller jets, fixing air leak and its just got worse.. choke on it was better grabbed a pair of the girlfriends finest tights and stuck them over the airbox, it wouldnt go over half throttle but the surging is gone
too much air not enough petrol, co2 reading was 5 apparently its supposed to be 14.
FIXED!!
FIXED!!
FIXED!!
WOOOOO
had a thought about everything ive done, smaller jets, fixing air leak and its just got worse.. choke on it was better grabbed a pair of the girlfriends finest tights and stuck them over the airbox, it wouldnt go over half throttle but the surging is gone
too much air not enough petrol, co2 reading was 5 apparently its supposed to be 14.
Last edited by roasty_duck; 02-26-2016 at 11:52 AM.
02-26-2016, 01:20 PM
#57
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02-26-2016, 02:06 PM
#58
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02-27-2016, 02:04 AM
#60
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I missed where you stated in the thread that you'd gone back to the stock filter. Well done working methodically getting it back to a baseline and finding the things that would play havoc with running.
