Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

finally balanced my carburetors

Old 12-10-2012, 04:54 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
finally balanced my carburetors

now that I have the shiny new boost joint installed on my front cylinder, I got my carburetors balanced at last. I use a balance tool I made with yard stick, tubing and red ATF. It's fairly sensitive so I had to add a damper, (a valve between the two tubes holding the ATF). Cost me $5 to make. The VTR wasn't that far off but did need a touch.
twist is offline  
Old 12-10-2012, 06:06 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
that's cool. I cut two inch pieces of WD40 spray tube and pushed them in the ends of the aquarium hose to slow things down a bit. Works great.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:54 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by nath981 View Post
that's cool. I cut two inch pieces of WD40 spray tube and pushed them in the ends of the aquarium hose to slow things down a bit. Works great.
the great thing about adding a valve between the two hoses is I can adjust the sensitivity. So, if things are really out of whack it won't suck the fluid out one side. Then I can dial in how sensitive I want it to be.
twist is offline  
Old 12-10-2012, 08:41 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by twist View Post
the great thing about adding a valve between the two hoses is I can adjust the sensitivity. So, if things are really out of whack it won't suck the fluid out one side. Then I can dial in how sensitive I want it to be.
don't have that problem with the spray can tubes inserted as baffles, but the valve sounds like a good idea. I know it can be a bitch if the fluid moves too fast.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-10-2012, 10:15 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by nath981 View Post
don't have that problem with the spray can tubes inserted as baffles, but the valve sounds like a good idea. I know it can be a bitch if the fluid moves too fast.
I have a set of gauges that I never use because they bounce around too much with the pulse, I'm going to give your idea a try on them to try to settle them down some. Smaller and easy to take along to test on actual road conditions.
twist is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:20 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by twist View Post
I have a set of gauges that I never use because they bounce around too much with the pulse, I'm going to give your idea a try on them to try to settle them down some. Smaller and easy to take along to test on actual road conditions.

if you look closely, you can see red inserts at the connection points. Blue tape to distinguish front and rear for disconnect/reconnect which i usually don't have to do anymore since i got things slowed down.

Before the spray tube baffles, the fluid moved so fast i was goin through hell to adjust fast enough to keep ahead of the flow.haha.

nath981 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 07:15 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
7moore7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,867
7moore7 is on a distinguished road
Does putting in the wd-40 tubes change the sensitivity at all?
7moore7 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 07:54 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by nath981 View Post
if you look closely, you can see red inserts at the connection points. Blue tape to distinguish front and rear for disconnect/reconnect which i usually don't have to do anymore since i got things slowed down.

Before the spray tube baffles, the fluid moved so fast i was goin through hell to adjust fast enough to keep ahead of the flow.haha.

right at the top of the board above the fluid is where I put a little valve I got from a garden drip supply. Put a T in there on each side and connect with the valve. Then it can be adjusted for sensitivity. I'll post a pic in a bit.
twist is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:18 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 7moore7 View Post
Does putting in the wd-40 tubes change the sensitivity at all?
no, just slows the movement of the fluid to a point where you can respond with the adjuster at a more reasonable rate.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:19 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
so the tubing you're using must be small dia? For the spray tube to fit inside tightly it must have a small ID. What kind of tubing are you using?
twist is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:36 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,936
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
For the huge sum of $2, you can just get aquarium valves and make a functioning tool. Also, you can use sta-bil as the liquid so if (when) it gets sucked in it does no harm, only good.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:04 AM
  #12  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
Some of us are old school and still use Hg gauges..... and they rock
A pilot jet in each line and tuning is a breeze.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,936
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
8541, those are unobtanium contraband now. Mercury poisons the planet and fish it turns out. Dont let the cops find out you have it.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 02:39 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Some of us are old school and still use Hg gauges..... and they rock
A pilot jet in each line and tuning is a breeze.
I had one of those back when motorcycles were steam powered!

I built this and use ATF because it won't hurt anything is it does get sucked in, just smoke some. I use the red colour because it's easy to see. Since it is relatively thin it makes for a very sensitive instrument. But, to tell the truth, I really like the twin-max. TwinMax Synchronizer :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear

too bad it costs so much and it's so easy to make my own for $5.00
twist is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by twist View Post
so the tubing you're using must be small dia? For the spray tube to fit inside tightly it must have a small ID. What kind of tubing are you using?
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
For the huge sum of $2, you can just get aquarium valves and make a functioning tool. Also, you can use sta-bil as the liquid so if (when) it gets sucked in it does no harm, only good.
tubing is aquarium type and getting oil in the carbs is not an issue with the baffles since in doesn't move fast enough that you can't respond with the adjuster.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-11-2012, 04:57 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
the balancer with high tech scale and damping valve. A very high end device made with the highest grade materials and very accurate as you can see by the amazing number scale witch measures exactly how many beers you've had while doing the job!



Name:  balance_tool.jpg
Views: 26
Size:  77.9 KB



Last edited by twist; 12-11-2012 at 05:12 PM.
twist is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:51 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
[QUOTE=twist;346063]the balancer with high tech scale and damping valve. A very high end device made with the highest grade materials and very accurate as you can see by the amazing number scale witch measures exactly how many beers you've had while doing the job!



It works good though huh! that's all that counts.

Oh, i checked my tubing and it is the aquarium tubing, then one that just fit inside it, then finally the WD40 spray tubing. I forgot what I did initially and that was to baffle with a smaller tube than the aquarian tubing, then found that it was still too fast. Lastly, added the WD40 tubing and perfect. I think the in-between size tube came off of a spray insulation can.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:43 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,936
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Good job nath, pure redneck ingenuity. I guess mine is ghetto ingenuity.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 05:12 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
It's cool that you found a use for those little red tubes! Makes perfect sense to use them as baffles. That is creative thinking.
twist is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 07:40 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Good job nath, pure redneck ingenuity. I guess mine is ghetto ingenuity.
haha....thanks, and you are right-on with the redneck part......dumbass perseverance.

the problem with this tool is that the fluid races toward the carb and then it is difficult to reset the oil to start again.

solutions:

1)blow into tubing until the veins pop out of your head
2)use compressor with blow tip to reset the oil. Well, carbonated oil doesn't work for sure?
3)let it settle naturally overnight and try again tomorrow, nah.
4)hold both ends of tubing and helicopter it over your head until centrifugal force does it's deal.......sounds stupid, looks stupid, is dangerous to anyone or anything within range of the flying board.............. but it does work!

at this point i was thinking i had two choices: get good at the helicopter boogie or spring for a real sync tool.

Or, maybe we ought to take a more pro-active approach and see if we can get the fluid to move more slowly, in which case there would be more time to adjust before the oil hits the carb.

OK, baffle the air coming into the lines to slow the oil might work.

Pushed a smaller piece of tubing in the end of the aquariun hose.....better, but still too fast. Let's go one more.......wd40 spray tube into that one.

Perfect. 5 min job done. easy as pie.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:58 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,936
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Nath huh? What malarky are you using in the tool? Use stabil and its liquid. Just bounces right back into level. Thats where the aquarium valves come in to lessen violent pressure.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:45 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by nath981 View Post
haha....thanks, and you are right-on with the redneck part......dumbass perseverance.

the problem with this tool is that the fluid races toward the carb and then it is difficult to reset the oil to start again.

solutions:

1)blow into tubing until the veins pop out of your head
2)use compressor with blow tip to reset the oil. Well, carbonated oil doesn't work for sure?
3)let it settle naturally overnight and try again tomorrow, nah.
4)hold both ends of tubing and helicopter it over your head until centrifugal force does it's deal.......sounds stupid, looks stupid, is dangerous to anyone or anything within range of the flying board.............. but it does work!

at this point i was thinking i had two choices: get good at the helicopter boogie or spring for a real sync tool.

Or, maybe we ought to take a more pro-active approach and see if we can get the fluid to move more slowly, in which case there would be more time to adjust before the oil hits the carb.

OK, baffle the air coming into the lines to slow the oil might work.

Pushed a smaller piece of tubing in the end of the aquariun hose.....better, but still too fast. Let's go one more.......wd40 spray tube into that one.

Perfect. 5 min job done. easy as pie.
funny! that was a good laugh, I can just see you winging that thing around over head with the neighbors looking confused! HA. I'm gonna spring for the twin max. It has a damper built in and it's small. But the $5 unit really works well, ya gotta admit. Did the tubing stretch while helicoptering it overhead? I never would have thought of that.
twist is offline  
Old 12-13-2012, 05:31 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
nath981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
nath981 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by twist View Post
funny! that was a good laugh, I can just see you winging that thing around over head with the neighbors looking confused! HA. I'm gonna spring for the twin max. It has a damper built in and it's small. But the $5 unit really works well, ya gotta admit. Did the tubing stretch while helicoptering it overhead? I never would have thought of that.
I'm glad you found an element of comedy here because we sure wain't laughing then.ha

aquarium tubing is tough **** as well as the elect wiring "U" staples used to secure it. Tested suitable for copter blades.

yeah the neighbors for sure because nosing is what they do best..... sneaky, listening, gawking porch monkeys. When i happen to catch them looking my way, and i'm in a good mood, i like to stick my middle finger up my right nostril and twist it as i walk toward them.(don't ask about the bad mood).

I don't know how you came up with the equalizer.......would have never thought that any kind of equalizer, valve or similar would have worked when you're trying to balance 2 diff carbs. Seems like it would nullify the differences and balance the levels even if the carbs weren't synced, but evidently not.

Originally Posted by VTRsurfer View Post
I'm just lazy, I guess. I sprung for the Motion Pro Syncpro a couple of years ago. It works great... and it comes with restrictor valves, so I can use the little red tubes, that come with the WD40 and carb spray, for crafts projects.
evidence that being lazy can be a good thing, especially if you're the crafty sort huh.

Don't need no Motion Pro now, but wouldn't mind having a tool for the mixture screw adjustment, although I'm contemplating something with aquarium tubing.ha

Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Nath huh? What malarky are you using in the tool? Use stabil and its liquid. Just bounces right back into level. Thats where the aquarium valves come in to lessen violent pressure.
...wish i would have known about the stabil cause that power steering fluid, fork oil or whatever i put in there made my *** tired before I got things sorted out.

But no need to change now because that issue has been resolved with the baffles and it couldn't be quicker or easier, so I'm now a happy red-neck.
nath981 is offline  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:41 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
OK, now I have a question for your master hawkers. I balanced the carburetors and set my idle to about 1300rmp. I took the VTR out today for a ride and worked it over pretty good. I notice a little hesitation and backfire through the intake while riding in slow traffic in 1st and 2nd gear at about 3000rmp. At speed and acceleration it disappears. I figure it's the last thing I did so I rebalanced the carbs, They were a tad off. I notice this bike is VERY sensitive to adjustments in balancing, hard to get it to perfect balance point.One tiny nudge one way or the other and it's off. AND, if that isn't enough, if I push just a tad it causes the rear cylinder to rev so I gotta be slow and gentle. Is this normal? When I pulled the cap off the vacuum hose to connect my gauge there was a little fuel. Not much but enough to make my finger tips damp and smelly, (there's a joke there but I'll leave it). I haven't taken out yet to be sure I got rid of the hiccup. Anyone with ideas and or opinions?
twist is offline  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #25  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
Did you mess with the pilot screws? That RPM range is right where the carbs transition from the pilot circuit to the needles.

So either the pilots are off or you need to adjust the needles.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:50 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
SuperSport
Thread Starter
 
twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 581
twist is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Did you mess with the pilot screws? That RPM range is right where the carbs transition from the pilot circuit to the needles.

So either the pilots are off or you need to adjust the needles.
No, I haven't gotten to that yet. Saving that for when it's really raining and I can't go anywhere. So you don't think it's a simple matter of being out of sync? The only adjustment to the carburetors was as I stated, balance and idle. Other than that there is the addition of the vacuum tubes for attaching the gauge to balance. When there is the hesitation it's a single "thump" from the air box and a hitch. It doesn't do it more than once. There is a minor missing that goes along with it. I'm assuming it's because the carbs are out of sync and one is "leaving" before the other one causing a imbalance. There is no lack of power or response. Just the spot where it jumps at steady speed/rpm. These things usually follow the last thing adjusted so I've gone back over what I did.

After thinking about it, balance shouldn't cause backfire thru the carbs. A rough running engine, yes but not backfire. I do think it's possible the choke to the rear cylinder might be the culprit because I was digging around in that area trying to recover the boost joint that dove in there. A choke out of adjustment might cause this symptom, no?

Last edited by twist; 12-14-2012 at 07:39 AM.
twist is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
twist
Modifications - Performance
9
11-01-2013 08:23 AM
twist
Technical Discussion
10
01-09-2013 04:55 PM
mortbike
Classifieds
5
04-29-2011 07:13 AM
Camo
Classifieds
2
09-24-2009 02:18 PM
Hawkrider
Classifieds
4
05-06-2009 04:15 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: finally balanced my carburetors


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.