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drive sprocket removal, now no clutch?

Old 10-22-2012, 04:20 PM
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drive sprocket removal, now no clutch?

Hey guys, been busy as **** riding my *** off while the weathers still nice. Close to 9K miles and counting this season alone!

Wore my rear tire down to the wire. In order to get a steep discount from the local shop, I bought new front an rear BT023 tires, new X-ring chain, front stand (curse bikes with no centerstand!), chain master link rivet thingy,...an a battery tender cause it was half off lol.

SO! My problem is, after removing the drive sprocket cover and cleaning everything up, install the chain, blah blah blah...put the cover back on. There's resistance before flush? Hmmm I'm thinkin. So I torque it down to what I thought felt like @17ft/lbs each, cause my torque wrench is 3/8 and the stupid pidly 8mm bolt sockets are 1/4".

Now I have no clutch. Its limp very limp and wont engage to shift gears. I read in the manual that I was supposed to pull in the clutch lever in an zip tie it. But that was for an engine disassemble..which I wasn't doing. So no zip tie. Nothing seemed to pop out, or seem suspicious.
So WTF happened? And what should be my first (read simple, DUH! moment) course of action?

Thanks ahead for any input! Next up is new front wheel bearing/seals...that should be cake if some A-hole mechanic doesn't pound them out and mar the surface again...I remember the rear was a nightmare LOL.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:28 PM
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Zip tying would have prevented this, but all you have to do is bleed it!
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:32 PM
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I don't remember exactly why, but when you don't pull the clutch it lets air in. I think the rod creeps out or something...
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:48 PM
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Damn that was quick! An that's what I was afraid of having to do. But I thought, no leaked fluid, no air, right? Oh well good lookin man, at least I'll have fresh fluid too!
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:36 PM
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You wont be so happy after attempting the bleed. Its a pia. You gotta bleed it from the top banjo too. Remember the fluid trashes paint intantaneously.

Hey I just bought an 023 rear 190 for $130 like 5 min ago.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:08 AM
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Thanks Joe, that is what I was fearing having to do...I've read about it on here an it looks to be a pia like you say. But as they say live an learn and then just follow the [email protected] manual! LOL

Bout the tire, that was the cheapest online price I could find too...the store sold it to me for $120!! after of course, I spent big in their store an got all that other stuff at the same time....an tax I suppose too...but still, good price man!

An wait...a 190? Thought those wouldn't be so good on our bikes? That only Dunlop Q2 had the right 'profile' or something I was reading when I saw a brand new Conti Motion rear and front for $150 on craigslist. Damn!

But me thinky I'll be happy with the BT023 instead.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:41 AM
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I wanted to try a 190. I had one on a couple yrs ago and really liked it. Its $22 more expensive but I mount my own tires so that and shipping was free.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:32 AM
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I ran a pilot road 2 190, it fit but would rub the chain gaurd a little when the swingarm would flex that way
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandit400man View Post
Thanks Joe, that is what I was fearing having to do...I've read about it on here an it looks to be a pia like you say.
For some reason I've never had any problems... it's easier than the brakes for me... takes like 10 min...

Open the reservoir. Pump the clutch like 20 times at a medium-slow speed. You may see bubbles come out as they're released from the banjo/mc. Hook a hose up to the bleed. Crack the bleed slightly as you squeeze the lever slowly (with a clear hose on it). Watch the fluid come out. Pour fluid in the reservoir. Do this several times until you see no bubbles. Do the whole process over again. Close everything up!
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:38 AM
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Should a be 5 minute job

Main thing is to make sure the clutch reservoir level doesn't drop out of sight while bleeding. Make sure to fill it little and often.

Jam jar, tubing and a ring spanner - job done.

A handy tip to make it even easier, and take the boredom out of bleeding, is to get a large 60ml catheter with hose and suck the fluid down out of the bleed nipple, though this is easier with an assistant to do the steady pouring.



Never heard of having to faff around with the top banjo...
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
Never heard of having to faff around with the top banjo...
I only need to if for some reason the fluid gets too low in the reservoir and it takes in a little air or I'm replacing the line. If you're having clutch problems it's not a bad idea to check it to make sure there's no bubbles. I've had it happen before so I always do it... it's super easy to just pump the clutch a few times.

I never even got around to trying the syringe b/c the other method is easy enough that I don't even feel like bothering with it!
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:40 AM
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Aja, when you swingarm FLEXES in that direction? (?) Is that what you figure was happening? Not the plastic chain guard deflecting? Are you jumping cars with the bike?

I dont think swingarm flex is a plausable reason.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:05 AM
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^Lol!
Thanks for all the tips guys...

After doing some more reading I think I'll take apart an clean the slave while I'm there too...got time at least while I wait for my front pads an bearings.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Aja, when you swingarm FLEXES in that direction? (?) Is that what you figure was happening? Not the plastic chain guard deflecting? Are you jumping cars with the bike?

I dont think swingarm flex is a plausable reason.
Don't know, don't really care. All I know is that it was close but cleared when straight up, but hard left turns made it hit. I figured the swingarm was flexing because its not very rigid to begin with. But the cause doesn't matter, I just know it would hit. I notched my chain gaurd so I don't have to worry about it if I go back to a 190
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
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On the racetrack it was only storms that were tuned to 140bbhp+ that had a problem, necessitating frame extension ears to stop the rear crankcase swingarm pivots to crack.

Even then they still used standard but braced swinger on stage 3 tuned builds without the ears.

http://www.moonpie.co.uk/VTR-S3.JPG

So more than likely the 190 tire being the cause.

Last edited by Wicky; 10-23-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:22 PM
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There ya go just notch it...that's how my brother fitted a GSXR1000 rear shock into his SV650. Notched the battery box.

But anyway, bleed was successful and easier than thought. (simple, one man one 10mm wrench, long tube and a wine bottle). Decided against replacing slave components (for now) after a quick call to the dealer to find out that 'rebuild kits' didn't exist...psssh, just like petcock rebuild kits didn't exist. Gotta buy the whole thing for like 200 bucks. That's why there called stealerships!
So I'll save that one for another day when crappy weather sets in for good an I can wait for the parts to ship.

So cheers guys, thanks for the help!
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
I haven't seen that bike before, I like how the ram air set up is run under the side of the tank.

That swingarm brace is short compared to a lot of others I've seen (900rr), you would think they would build it longer to give more leverage and strength.


Originally Posted by Bandit400man View Post
But anyway, bleed was successful and easier than thought. (simple, one man one 10mm wrench, long tube and a wine bottle). Decided against replacing slave components (for now) after a quick call to the dealer to find out that 'rebuild kits' didn't exist...psssh, just like petcock rebuild kits didn't exist. Gotta buy the whole thing for like 200 bucks. That's why there called stealerships!
You can find clutch rebuild kits online, or purchase the parts separately somewhere like RonAyers.com
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:01 PM
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Another VTR: stage 2 BSB with the frame ears & spondon swinger

http://www.moonpie.co.uk/vtra6.JPG

Moriwaki VTR
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:39 PM
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Wow wicky, keep those pics comin', I love seeing those sweet superhawk racebikes. I am so mad I didnt buy one when I had the chance, a buddy had one but I opted for more stock.

Got my new screen saver, thanks
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Aja, when you swingarm FLEXES in that direction? (?) Is that what you figure was happening? Not the plastic chain guard deflecting? Are you jumping cars with the bike?

I dont think swingarm flex is a plausable reason.
Actually, if I can find it, I have proof on video and stills of my swingarm flexing to the point that it was visible from a trailing bike with a GoPro... You can visibly see the rearwheel pointing at the wrong angle... Looks seriously wierd, and a bit scary...

The stock swingarm flexes quite a bit... The 140+ bhp bikes had the ears added to the frame to keep it from breaking the engine casing, not stop flex... All the racebikes had bracing on the arm itself, regardless of hp... And I'd say anything above stock hp wise needs a brace on the swingarm, and even stock benefits from it greatly...
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:34 AM
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Man, I was so close to doing the braced swingarm mod. Now I wish I had. (still could I guess). Didnt think there was so much tuned flex.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:27 AM
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I've never had to fiddle with the top banjo either. I've changed my clutch fluid about 4 times in two years on my Hawk and never had problems. Just fill, attach tube or vac, open bleeder slowly and squeeze clutch lever slowly till all the bubbles go away. Don't ever let the cylinder suck air.
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