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that damn little screw!

Old 11-28-2012, 04:48 PM
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that damn little screw!

stupid little screw messed up my afternoon. I was adding the vacuum hoses and T to make balancing a snap when I managed to lose the little boost joint down into the void of the motor, under some tubes and other god forsaken places on the front cylinder. I spent more than 3 hours worth of tearing things apart to do the work and then taking the little bolt out of the manifold. Then getting that little boost joint down there only for it to slip and go bye bye under the front coil and other stuff. I dug, I made special little tools and it was then I realized I could have used a piece of tube on the joint to get it fixed and screwed down as far as it would go, but that does little good now, I always think of the solution after I make the problem. So, I spent 3 hours turning myself into a pretzel and trying to squeeze my hands into miniature places while inventing new cuss words and wishing super glue in the preparation H of who ever designed where to put that damn screw.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by twist View Post
stupid little screw messed up my afternoon. I was adding the vacuum hoses and T to make balancing a snap when I managed to lose the little boost joint down into the void of the motor, under some tubes and other god forsaken places on the front cylinder. I spent more than 3 hours worth of tearing things apart to do the work and then taking the little bolt out of the manifold. Then getting that little boost joint down there only for it to slip and go bye bye under the front coil and other stuff. I dug, I made special little tools and it was then I realized I could have used a piece of tube on the joint to get it fixed and screwed down as far as it would go, but that does little good now, I always think of the solution after I make the problem. So, I spent 3 hours turning myself into a pretzel and trying to squeeze my hands into miniature places while inventing new cuss words and wishing super glue in the preparation H of who ever designed where to put that damn screw.
Well hope you found it, I don't recall as I did mine maybe ten years ago, but will a magnet on a telescopic slide help.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:45 PM
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The fitting is brass so the magnet won't help but I bet you don't forget the hose trick next time.....
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:46 PM
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You couldnt just turn the bike over and shake it out? Man I had images of that nightmare when I put mine in & knew it wasnt magnetic so I also made a lasso of safety wire an used the hose method.

It is still safety wired in there just in case. That kind of mechanical experience sucks but it makes you appreciate the times that things just work.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
The fitting is brass so the magnet won't help but I bet you don't forget the hose trick next time.....
Now that brings back memories, yea I had forgotten it was brass. Don't you hate when a bolt falls in the garage and you hunt for hours only to find it somewhere you least expected it to be.

Crazy
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:06 PM
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it's a shame it came to me AFTER the little thing found it's home in the nether regions of my motor. I made all kinds of hooks and such and almost had it. I got too frustrated and put it away for the night. I'll get it tomorrow. Probably get it straight away after the wrestling match I had earlier. You can bet a month's worth of Bass ale I'll use the vacuum hose trick this time. At least it's raining and it's a good time to do hawks carburetor upgrade and the PIAR removal.

that's it! vacuum the little sucker oiutta there!
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:33 PM
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Aloha twist,
Man that sucks.

I always keep in my rollaway a length of vacuum hose and and an Assortment of
Colored Metaphors. Almosts matches the utility of a BFH and Creasant wrench,
but seems to be used more often(ACM). I am sure that you will get it worked out.

Good to take a breather and then continue after cooled/rested.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:49 AM
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Even with a long magnet tool it can get 'distracted' by other steel parts on the way down to its target!

A claw grab tool is another handy tool to have in reserve

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Old 11-29-2012, 04:29 AM
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well, to preserve your sanity, you might have to just install the oem bolt til you get another one, or embark on a major quest and take everything apart w/o any guarantees of course.

I was helping rob do his and he broke it off in a NY minute. Think that didn't cause some anxiety.

def a PIA to lose something tiny into that dark abyss maze. I dropped one of the front air box screws and it disappeared terminally, that is until several years later when I ran across it hiding somewhere down under.

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Old 11-29-2012, 07:33 AM
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the thing that kills me about ordering the damn thing is it costs $20 to ship! Why can't they slip it into an envelope like everyone else? a $4 part costing $24. And then there's the crush washer. Don't get me started this early in the morning. Maybe try blasting it out with air, canned air or air from my tire repair kit.

Last edited by twist; 11-29-2012 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
Even with a long magnet tool it can get 'distracted' by other steel parts on the way down to its target!

A claw grab tool is another handy tool to have in reserve

you are quite right, worth double the weight in gold when needed. I may go get one today.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by twist View Post
the thing that kills me about ordering the damn thing is it costs $20 to ship! Why can't they slip it into an envelope like everyone else? a $4 part costing $24. And then there's the crush washer. Don't get me started this early in the morning. Maybe try blasting it out with air, canned air or air from my tire repair kit.
lighten up dude. smoke a doobie! it's legal. **** it! ain't worth gettin all bent.

I got in there and it was 13.85 incl shipping to pa.

Call jets r us and see what they want or do you want me to do it for ya. haha
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:54 AM
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Johann, should of just removed everything above....roughly 15-20min of work, and, would of saved you a heap of trouble. I know, it's easy to say afterwards, but 3 hours of work for a little screw. I have to be honest with you, even if I feel your pain I had a real good laugh reading you, (been there, done that)

Anyway, now that I'm done laughing, perhaps I can help. If you have not purchased anything yet, TecMate have these neat extended adaptor for carb sync. This is what I have and use. It has about 12-14'' of rubber tube at the end, which is more then enough for the chicken. It come complete with joint, and rubber cap. Costs me about 10$, and retails for maybe 15$ or so.

TecMate International - OptiMate Battery Chargers - DEALER: Accessories Fuel

If you want one, let me know, I'll snail mail it to you.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:57 AM
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And then there's the crush washer.

I went to my local S&G Import Auto Parts and asked about crush washers. They wanted to know the size, I gave them an old one, they matched it up and gave me 2 @ no charge. Nice people! and no shipping charges.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:29 AM
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thank you all! I'm about to delve into the dark unexplored regons of canyons and other places where screws fall and bits of road debris gather. I like the nifty kit with hose and cap. Wish I'da taken all apart to begin with. I live in a place with very nice underground gated and secure parking. Consequently, some of the "neighbors" get uptight when they see me working on the bike so I try to keep a low profile. Boy did I botch that! FTW!
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by twist View Post
I live in a place with very nice underground gated and secure parking. Consequently, some of the "neighbors" get uptight when they see me working on the bike so I try to keep a low profile. Boy did I botch that! FTW!
maybe you ought to take the mufflers off and do a good long burn-out just to lightened them up a bit. Then they'd appreciate you for sure.

Dam boy, I feel your pain! Now find that little bastard. haha
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:20 PM
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ok, so I go down this morning and as expected, after I pulled everything off, I looked down into the void and there the little bugger was, peeking out from under the choke body. I managed it with a long piece of coat hanger with a slight bend in the end, held it there while grabbing it with a pair of hemostats. I'm a hero!!! Wait. Not done yet! I did not forget my little trick of using the hose on the boost joint to get it started and it did work like a charm. I then fitted my socket wrench to tighten it down. Now, I'm not a ham fisted guy, that said, that little bastard likes just over hand tight, oops,damn!!!(followed buy words I learned in the Marines). OK, not all is lost. I have a easy out set and get the threaded end out straight away. I remember I have a old carb balance set with nipples and dig out the shortest one and install that. It worked. While I had everything apart I removed the PAIR system and installed the cover plates I bought here. I put everything back together being careful to reconnect all hoses and plug vacuum hoses that no longer have a home and turn on the fuel. Bike won't start. I am feeling about as smart as a box of rocks. But it is amusing and I do keep myself busy with creating new and interesting tasks to untangle. flash, I may send you a pm about the parts. I salute you all for having bikes that run and for not fixing **** what's not bloody broken. I have a wright buggers muddle.

Last edited by twist; 11-29-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:52 PM
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OK, I went back over the steps. I think I forgot to flip the reed valve over before capping it off with the cover I bought from forum member. That raises a question, attempting to start the engine with the reed valve housing disconnected and valve not flipped over cannot damage the engine can it? I'm not clear as to why it wouldn't start but then I need to go back and do my home work.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRsurfer View Post
Check all the hoses that you disconnected during removal of the PAIR. The port on the bottom of the airbox should be capped, as well as the vacuum line that went to the PAIR valve.

Did you cap the brass fitting you installed?

PVLIR?

Crankcase breather hoses hooked up to airbox properly?

Did you knock off a coil connection, or something else while fishing around?

I'm assuming it cranks, right?
yeah, cranks and tries to start. I made a point to check all hoses but it's worth going over them again. Still the one step I didn't do was to turn the reed valve over before capping it off. Is it possible to turn the fuel valve too far? It must be something simple. There aren't many hoses to cap after removing the PAIR system. I think 1st action is to turn those reed valves over and see what effect that has.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRsurfer View Post
Yeah, there are only 2 hoses to be concerned with during PAIR removal, the 2 that I mentioned.

I've never turned off the manual valve when removing my tank, so I can't answer that one. And you should flip the reed valves.
everything is where it goes so I can only go to the one thing I didn't do, If that don't do it then I need to go back thru. It's usually something simple and small.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:49 PM
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The reed valves are irrelevant if you are capping the whole opening anyway. The bike will start with no airbox at all so I am betting you screwed up the fuel line hook up. You are not getting gas is my guess.

Did you crack your choke elbow? Thats real easy to do and would mess with proper fuel delivery too.

Oh yeah, quit doing 10 things to the bike at once & then trying to figure which thing did the bad thing. One............. .......thing ......at ........a .......time .
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by twist View Post
everything is where it goes so I can only go to the one thing I didn't do, If that don't do it then I need to go back thru. It's usually something simple and small.
did you pull a gas line to make sure you have fuel running into the carbs?

did you pull the chokes out of the carbs or leave them connected?

you don't have a hose attached to the bottom of the petcock?
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
The reed valves are irrelevant if you are capping the whole opening anyway. The bike will start with no airbox at all so I am betting you screwed up the fuel line hook up. You are not getting gas is my guess.

Did you crack your choke elbow? Thats real easy to do and would mess with proper fuel delivery too.

Oh yeah, quit doing 10 things to the bike at once & then trying to figure which thing did the bad thing. One............. .......thing ......at ........a .......time .
It just seemed like a good time to do the PAIR since I had it all apart. The choke could be a culprit since I was down there digging around. It acts like it does when the vacuum hose gets hooked up to the wrong place but I double checked. I'll take a look tomorrow. I'm sure it's something silly, almost always is. I think it's fuel related myself but that's a guess.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:29 AM
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Have you check to make sure the kill switch is in the "run position?
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Have you check to make sure the kill switch is in the "run position?
I have seen that one many times! I once had a college professor have me come to his home because some "kids" knocked over his CB125. He had tried kick starting it till he practically passed out. I rode up, sat on the bike lipped the kill switch kicked it once and it fired right up. I got an A in English Lit that year!

Not trying to hi-jack the thread just point out that it's always best to do a Smoking Joe ay's do one thing at a time and make sure you've gone through all of the start up procedures...never assume!
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:11 AM
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That's right HRCA, because when you assume, you make an *** out of U and ME...;O)
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Have you check to make sure the kill switch is in the "run position?
I don't want to think that I would do that but I am on my way now. Back later. If I do that again I'll be too embarrassed to admit it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:31 AM
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now, 2 hours later and the problem has been discovered, the riddle solved. I'm sure it's my imagination but the bike seems to run a little better without all the PAIR gear under the tank; starts better and without the choke. It always started without the choke in warm weather but it's chilly now. Bike is running great and ready to balance the carburetors. I also discovered that the reed valve cannot just be turned over as it only fits one way. It must be taken apart and the metal piece that holds the valve from opening too far has to be turned over, (that must be what is being referred to), so that the metal stop holds the reed closed all the time. Fun stuff, learning all the time. Getting to know every cm of the bike!
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by VTRsurfer View Post
Oh yeah, now I remember. I just installed the block-off plates over the reed valves as they were. Sorry about the wrong info. All they do anyway is prevent exhaust gas from backing up into the PAIR valve.

Slow day here in SoCal, with the streets all wet. I hear you're getting hammered up there in "The City".
I don't see any reason why they NEED to be turned over. The gasses go no where with the block off plates instead of stock covers. Block off plates look good, too! Don't get the idea anything was ever there. Nice and clean and the amount of space cleared up without all those hoses and that valve is really nice. Kinda makes me feel like I lost 10lbs even though it was only a few kg. Somehow makes the bike look cleaner.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by twist View Post
now, 2 hours later and the problem has been discovered, the riddle solved. I'm sure it's my imagination but the bike seems to run a little better without all the PAIR gear under the tank; starts better and without the choke. It always started without the choke in warm weather but it's chilly now. Bike is running great and ready to balance the carburetors. I also discovered that the reed valve cannot just be turned over as it only fits one way. It must be taken apart and the metal piece that holds the valve from opening too far has to be turned over, (that must be what is being referred to), so that the metal stop holds the reed closed all the time. Fun stuff, learning all the time. Getting to know every cm of the bike!
What did the problem end up being?
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