CCT failure empirical data
05-14-2009, 06:15 PM
#1
Ottawa, Ont.
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CCT failure empirical data
I, like most here, have made the swap to manual tensioners. That said, I wonder if this is a knee-jerk reaction to popular belief, or is the failure rate of Honda's automatic tensioner a serious likelihood. How many here can state in the first person that thier stock CCT was the root cause of a catastrophic failure. I'll even settle for reliable second person knowledge.
I'd be interested in knowing the number of CCT failures, what was the end state of the CCT, what had to be repaired/replaced as a result.
I have recently installed Truc's very nicely done tensioners, and am in no way displeased with his product. But the truth is, I really only made this swap to make my bike more saleable for when I offload it later this Summer. Cheers DS
I'd be interested in knowing the number of CCT failures, what was the end state of the CCT, what had to be repaired/replaced as a result.
I have recently installed Truc's very nicely done tensioners, and am in no way displeased with his product. But the truth is, I really only made this swap to make my bike more saleable for when I offload it later this Summer. Cheers DS
05-14-2009, 07:30 PM
#4
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2phaast: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...+failed+engine
lilbitz909: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...+failed+engine Post #5
Mark S.: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...+failed+engine
lilbitz909: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...+failed+engine Post #5
Mark S.: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...+failed+engine
05-14-2009, 08:37 PM
#5
Calamari
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It seems when scouring old threads for this data that the concensus is CCTs were upgraded by Honda in later years but still somewhat suspect. Inderocker, were any of the 3 you refer to post-2002 units? Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough but I can't find any posts indicating that owners of later models had them fail. Did you have a failure on your 2005?
-Darcy
05-14-2009, 09:46 PM
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05-14-2009, 11:11 PM
#8
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It seems when scouring old threads for this data that the concensus is CCTs were upgraded by Honda in later years but still somewhat suspect. Inderocker, were any of the 3 you refer to post-2002 units? Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough but I can't find any posts indicating that owners of later models had them fail. Did you have a failure on your 2005?
-Darcy
-Darcy
05-15-2009, 03:54 AM
#11
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Like rocks in a coffee grinder?
Someones arm getting caught in the dough machine at pizza hut?
Like 3 kittens caught in the fan belt of my grandmothers van?
No, it really sounds like a rapid clattering sound, but thats subject to some interpretation.
Also theres different failure situations.
Someones arm getting caught in the dough machine at pizza hut?
Like 3 kittens caught in the fan belt of my grandmothers van?
No, it really sounds like a rapid clattering sound, but thats subject to some interpretation.
Also theres different failure situations.
05-15-2009, 04:21 AM
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Mine were replaced with APEs at ~55,000 miles, though I am not the first owner so they may have been replaced with other OEM ones prior to that.
Swapping them out drastically quieted the non exhaust engine noises on my bike.
Swapping them out drastically quieted the non exhaust engine noises on my bike.
05-15-2009, 06:43 AM
#15
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I just replaced mine with Truck's. The bike has 24K on it, it's a 98.
I did it just in case, but now that you guys mentioned it, the sound of the engine changed.
It used to have some rattling like loose change sound. Now I don't hear any of it.
Did I do it just in time?
I did it just in case, but now that you guys mentioned it, the sound of the engine changed.
It used to have some rattling like loose change sound. Now I don't hear any of it.
Did I do it just in time?
05-15-2009, 07:39 AM
#16
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I just replaced mine with Truck's. The bike has 24K on it, it's a 98.
I did it just in case, but now that you guys mentioned it, the sound of the engine changed.
It used to have some rattling like loose change sound. Now I don't hear any of it.
Did I do it just in time?
I did it just in case, but now that you guys mentioned it, the sound of the engine changed.
It used to have some rattling like loose change sound. Now I don't hear any of it.
Did I do it just in time?
Changed mine at 17K while doing a valve check...RC
05-15-2009, 07:42 AM
#17
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this has been tried a few times before...
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...mileage&page=2
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=16516
I think if you have good karma, swap OEM CCT's at valve check intervals; or at least every 25K miles. But everyone else in the real world should get TBM manual CCT's at or before 16K miles
Last edited by LineArrayNut; 05-15-2009 at 07:46 AM.
05-15-2009, 07:04 PM
#18
Ottawa, Ont.
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So that's 7 by my count, and there's probably double that again amongst the rest of the unspoken membership ...plenty reason enough to make this swap. Even if I've grossly over-estimated things, it seems negligent of Honda to never issue a recall, and don't even get me started on their reg/recs. Thanks all
05-15-2009, 07:14 PM
#19
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the real problem is that this is one of the bikes that when you have a failure, there is not enough tension in the chain to stop it from jumping. Some timing sets are such that they will run without jumping even without a tensioner in. I guess they had some other idea.
05-15-2009, 08:18 PM
#20
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It is not a VTR specific thing. Take a look on many popular bike forums and you'll see the same thing over and over. CBR, busa, hell even my DRZ has the dreaded and mandatory CCT fix (with proof of failures). Some peoples grenade, others don't. Seems the main culprit and simularity among all the different bikes is that stock CCTs put too much pressure on the chain and eventually stretch it where it can skip a tooth or two. Not good. Change it to be assured. I have a TT MCCT that came in a couple of weeks ago for the DRZ. My stock CCT will be swapped soon when I check the valves.
Last edited by haknslash; 05-15-2009 at 08:21 PM.
05-16-2009, 07:42 PM
#21
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My Hawk is a 98 with 12,000 miles on it and still OEM CCT. But reading all the horror stories here, I think it is something I should have changed as well when I have the valves checked as well. What are the differences if any between Truck's CCT's and APE's?
05-16-2009, 08:03 PM
#22
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So that's 7 by my count, and there's probably double that again amongst the rest of the unspoken membership ...plenty reason enough to make this swap. Even if I've grossly over-estimated things, it seems negligent of Honda to never issue a recall, and don't even get me started on their reg/recs. Thanks all
05-16-2009, 11:16 PM
#23
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His have recessed bolts to allow easier adjustment / access to the nut, and they have a superior thread sealing washer rather than just a o ring to prevent oil seepage through the threads.
05-17-2009, 03:46 PM
#24
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Squid
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Here is the link to my cct thoughts, problem and fix. Seems to have worked.
98 with 25K on it now.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...light=cct+redo
How many have taken the stockers apart after a failure to see what failed?
Would bet the failures look the same.
Mark
98 with 25K on it now.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...light=cct+redo
How many have taken the stockers apart after a failure to see what failed?
Would bet the failures look the same.
Mark
05-25-2009, 10:23 AM
#26
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Hi everyone, newbie here. 2004 VTR w/12K purchased this spring. First post after perusing the site for some time. Y'all got me nervous now about the CCTs. Considering installing the manual tensioners before problems set in. Was searching yesterday and found the member who was making them but can't relocate. Also aware of the APEs. Would like to compare price, quality of the two.
05-25-2009, 11:27 AM
#28
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02+ has the newer "finned" R/R IIRC. Should be fine IMO.
grisman be sure to check out the "knowledge base" forum https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...splay.php?f=40
grisman be sure to check out the "knowledge base" forum https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...splay.php?f=40
Last edited by haknslash; 05-25-2009 at 11:30 AM.
05-25-2009, 02:54 PM
#29
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I, like most here, have made the swap to manual tensioners. That said, I wonder if this is a knee-jerk reaction to popular belief, or is the failure rate of Honda's automatic tensioner a serious likelihood. How many here can state in the first person that thier stock CCT was the root cause of a catastrophic failure. I'll even settle for reliable second person knowledge.
I'd be interested in knowing the number of CCT failures, what was the end state of the CCT, what had to be repaired/replaced as a result.
I'd be interested in knowing the number of CCT failures, what was the end state of the CCT, what had to be repaired/replaced as a result.
New parts :
2 Inlet valves
2 Valve guide oil seals
1 Head gasket
2 Cam cap screws
1 camchain
1 tensioner
1 tensioner gasket
1 water outlet elbow + O ring.
1 new exhaust stud + manifold nut
1 Exhaust gasket
1 new centre cap in stator cover
Didn't need shims, the standard ones were in tolerance.
Stripped the CCT, and it was filled with rust, so it obviously hadn't seen oil in quite a while.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Paul.
05-25-2009, 06:08 PM
#30
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I just noticed this - do you really think that most of us have swtiched? I wonder what the actual percentage is, my guess would be less than 10%... but that's just a guess.
Now maybe there is a clue! Without oil getting to it I wouldn't expect it to keep operating. That kind of plays into my theory that it's got something to do with the oil/filter/oil change interval/etc. I still can't help but think it's some human factor to it.
Last edited by JamieDaugherty; 05-25-2009 at 06:10 PM.
