Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Carbs, again? Say it isn't so.....

Old 04-29-2013, 04:48 PM
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Carbs, again? Say it isn't so.....

So there I was today at work thinking about how many folks are working on their carbs and getting things tuned up and running well. I had mentioned in another thread that since moving to Missouri and getting the Dr. Honda V-stacks that things were a bit on the rich side. So what the heck, why not enlist the help of my two buddies, Sam Adams and George Killian, and dive in...

So off comes the tank. First two bolts are the front mount bolts. Make a mental note to ensure the inserts don't fall when I remove the tank. As I'm unhooking hoses, I smile and chuckle to myself in respect of the victims of PVLIR this year. Hoses, check. RLOD wire, check. Rear mount, check. Time to lift the tank. The left metal insert for the front mount drops out into the depths of Superhawk hell. [email protected]&%!!!

Okay, this is recoverable. Time to move on. Airbox, removed. K&N looks good. No mouse nests or dead birds. Damn, those velocity stacks look like works of art! Long screwdriver to loosen the clamps. Got it! Front, done. Rear, already loose? WTF? How'd that happen? Okay, let's move on. Throttle cables, done. Time to unseat the carbs. Carefully twist over to the side. Pop! Out they come. Okay, time for the choke cables. Remember all those poor victims of broken plastic choke thingies. Mental note: Be careful! WTF! The front one is all flimsy and crap! It broke! How could I, the Admin of this site, the owner of Superhawk996.net, the 15 year owner of this motorcycle fall victim to such a ROOKIE MISTAKE?!?! Great, I wonder how long it will take to get replacement parts. Hell, I don't even know where the local dealer is here. Okay, well, how does the rear look? Fine, carefully removed. Now the front...Hey, it's NOT broken! The little rubber sleeve just came off the plastic part! Phew! Hmmm, how'd that happen...?

Moving on. Coolant lines clamped. Coolant lines off. TPS wire, check. Remove float bowls, carefully as not to spill gas everywhere and I want to check the crap in the bowls too. Front, nearly spotless. Rear, nearly spotless. Okay, lets go inside to cool off and George can help move the needles down one notch. Everything goes smoothly. I notice that the throttle linkage is a tiny bit sloppy. There is a brass bushing in the linkage rod that connects the two carbs. The rear operates the front and is opening just a tiny bit sooner than the front. Disassemble, clean, and lubricate with white lithium grease to prevent further wear. That helps take up a few ten thousandths of play. I'm good with it.

Moving on... Hey, there's the front mount insert! Woohoo, no digging required!

So that's where I am, folks. Saga to be continued. I hope this is just another carb R&R that goes smoother than most.

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Old 04-29-2013, 05:23 PM
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And you make it sound like that just took about 15 minutes!!

There is one thing I can't understand though, how can George be @ your house when I know he is in my kitchen right now??
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:29 PM
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Woohoo! I LOVE MY SUPERHAWK!!! It's amazing how the bike and I have connected over the last 15 years. She doesn't ask for much, just a little love and oil every once in a while and she treats me right. We've logged 51,671 miles together and every one was an adventure and a smile!

Everything went back together smoothly. I even lubed the throttle cables. Wheelies are effortless, not like they weren't before, but even more so now. I'm starting to realize the true potential of these velocity stacks.

It is a little soft up top though. She's a tad stronger at about 7/8 throttle than she is at full throttle. Think I may go up on the mains one size and see what happens. I think these stacks flow much better up top than the stockers. Fresh fuel might help too. But that's for another day...

Thanks to George (maybe you have his twin brother, Wolverine?), Sam, and the Marlboro Man for their help. And a special call out to Craftsman tools for always being there and never letting me down.

And before anyone goes giving me crap about drinking and riding, I never have more beers than wheels. Two beers in two hours, and I'm not exactly a small guy. It's all good.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
And you make it sound like that just took about 15 minutes!!

There is one thing I can't understand though, how can George be @ your house when I know he is in my kitchen right now??
Well being that was 10 minutes worth of work that gave him a few for the conversations with Sam and George!
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkrider View Post
Okay, time for the choke cables. Remember all those poor victims of broken plastic choke thingies. Mental note: Be careful! WTF! The front one is all flimsy and crap! It broke! How could I, the Admin of this site, the owner of Superhawk996.net, the 15 year owner of this motorcycle fall victim to such a ROOKIE MISTAKE?!?! Great, I wonder how long it will take to get replacement parts. Hell, I don't even know where the local dealer is here.
Contact gl_s_r here in the UK who has crafted some brass replacements

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Old 04-30-2013, 05:20 AM
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Continue the read. It didn't break. It just felt like it broke.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:35 AM
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Jeezus Greg.... see what happens when you move too far away for me to give you on site tech advice, lol
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:48 AM
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Hey, I still got you on speed dial, brotha!
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:14 AM
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Still worth getting and stashing away squirrel like just-in-case, as Honda don't have them individually in stock.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:34 AM
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I'm 90% sure that I have a new/used set of cables with all my things still in VA. I will be getting all that in about a week, so no need to go out buying more stuff I don't need. I already do enough of that in the automotive clearance section at Walmart and on Craigslist.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:59 AM
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Amazing! I an doing excactly the same thing to my Hawk. Installing a K&N kit and CCT's. Difference is I started at 0900 this morning. I'm looking at the worlds longest slide spring at 1200.

Question: What holds in the silde pin? Is there an O ring at the base of the pin guide, and the guide just wiggles (tech term) off?
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wndsrfr48 View Post
Amazing! I an doing excactly the same thing to my Hawk. Installing a K&N kit and CCT's. Difference is I started at 0900 this morning. I'm looking at the worlds longest slide spring at 1200.

Question: What holds in the silde pin? Is there an O ring at the base of the pin guide, and the guide just wiggles (tech term) off?
Slide pin?



What is a slide pin? What number from this pic are you talking about?
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:05 AM
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Oh and, good luck with the K&N.. only a few have gotten it to tune properly, and for the most part, I think they just don't realize how much better it can be.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:06 AM
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#3. I got it. As usual it was cover in another post. On to the mains and CCT's
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:09 AM
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Took me a while to figure out how to get #10 assy to seperate from the slide, #22
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:10 AM
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Great diagram, BTW
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:45 AM
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And to think....YOU were advising ME yesterday...Haha Rookie!!!

Okay, Okay,

I timed myself after work yesterday...Fully remove the tank remove the carbs, adjust the springs and adjust the Idle mixture screws, replace everything.

53 minutes.

It only took 15 minutes to remove the carbs, but re-installing them is a different story. Re-calibrating the throttle cable etc.

Tonight I'll re-set Idle, re-synch carbs and if all is good, go to work tomorrow with the bike. I'm guessing I may need to lean out my idle mixture screws a little more, but 1/4 turn at a time ensures a good final tune.

**I was about to re-synch and warm up the bike last night with a little ride, but my brain kicked in and said..."Eric you've already had one to many gin n' tonics, time to go play computer games!" Huzzah, my brain still functions!

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:05 PM
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Beginning to think your right about K&N Marquez... Attached is a photo of my latest screw up. K&N says to drill an auxiliary slide lift hole in the slide with the needle retainer installed. as you can see from the photo, it didn't drill, It broke. In looking at the assembly and K&N's directions, I don't think this broken tang on the retainer will affect anything. Would appreciate any feedback (outside of I don't know WTF i'm doing)
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wndsrfr48 View Post
Beginning tothink your right about K&N Marquez... Attached is a photo of my latestscrew up. K&N says to drill an auxiliary slide lift hole in the slide withthe needle retainer installed. as you can see from the photo, it didn't drill,It broke. In looking at the assembly and K&N's directions, I don't thinkthis broken tang on the retainer will affect anything. Would appreciate anyfeedback (outside of I don't know WTF i'm doing)



Mfg. Part Number: 16037-MBB-640

$11.91 http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/240853

Replace it, and know it is not partof a tuning issue later.

Mine drilled just fine years ago,,,,but when working on the carbs this last time, that same little ear brokeoff.

It might be fine, it might be fine for a week, month... it might allow that retainer to come loose.. flutter, cause my muffler bearings to fail.. I don’t know for sure that it will cause any harm,,I do know for $11, I just ordered one this morning, and won’t have to worry about it.

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Old 04-30-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post


Mfg. Part Number: 16037-MBB-640

$11.91 http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/240853

Replace it, and know it is not partof a tuning issue later.

Mine drilled just fine years ago,,,,but when working on the carbs this last time, that same little ear brokeoff.

It might be fine, it might be fine for a week, month... it might allow that retainer to come loose.. flutter, cause my muffler bearings to fail.. I don’t know for sure that it will cause any harm,,I do know for $11, I just ordered one this morning, and won’t have to worry about it.

I'll stick with 8541Hawk's suggestion of not drilling open the additional slide hole. I already closed mine from the DJ setup. P.S. PO didn't drill a hole through the broken part pictured; only the slide housing itself. (Which I already epoxied closed.) 1 hole front 2 hole back currently.

Food for thought.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure that it's the o-ring that holds that part in place. Notice how it "snaps" into place?
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
Oh and, good luck with the K&N.. only a few have gotten it to tune properly, and for the most part, I think they just don't realize how much better it can be.
You had to go there, didn't you....
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkrider View Post
I'm prettysure that it's the o-ring that holds that part in place. Notice how it"snaps" into place?


I am too, but I’m also aware, theOEM does not add the rest of the part to the design, just for looks.... itcould be an assembly line aid. It might be so the part does not roll off thetable at the factory… It could be more,, what it is for sure is an unknown.

SO for $11... it is a variable to thetuning plan you do not have to worry about or consider.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WhOrD View Post
I'll stick with8541Hawk's suggestion of not drilling open the additional slide hole. I alreadyclosed mine from the DJ setup. P.S. PO didn't drill a hole through the brokenpart pictured; only the slide housing itself. (Which I already epoxied closed.)1 hole front 2 hole back currently.
Originally Posted by WhOrD View Post

Food for thought.


I agree, forget the extra hole.. andthe K&N airfilter, K&N needles, springs, propriety numbered jets as well,

Then replace that broken part with anew one... and follow the 8541Hawk tuning plan..... it works.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:19 PM
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Obvoiusly I need to do more research, go over 8541 hawks plan, and map out a strategy. And Marquez, part of that strategy is to buy a new part. Much, much thanks for the part number and unputs. That being said, I must qualify my statement about K&N. In the past several years, I have installed K&N jet kits on a number of bikes, mine and others, and always had satisfactory results. Easy start, no stumbles, good power. Again, to all yuos guys, Marquez, Hawkrider WhOrD, many thanks. I'll be around, and I'll update. I trade bikes every 6 months, but the SuperHawk has me in its spell. I think I'll keep this one.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:41 AM
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Just to follow up, after getting a fresh tank of ethanol-free 91 she is running just about perfectly this morning, with an ambient temperature of about 60°F. I'll wait until it's warmer to evaluate full throttle power and subsequent main jet changes.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wndsrfr48 View Post
That being said, I must qualify my statement about K&N. In the past several years, I have installed K&N jet kits on a number of bikes, mine and others, and always had satisfactory results. Easy start, no stumbles, good power. .
As have I and others here,, but on THIS BIKE, it has not been found to work well. To each his own, do what works for you.

By all means give it a go, post up the final turning versions Dyno A/F graphs. Love to see what you can do with the K&N filter and jet kit.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:23 PM
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This has got to be one of the funniest threads I have read in a long time. Where do I start. Mmmm do I start LOL

K&N filter Dynojet kit K&N filters don't require an extra hole. I would even go as far as saying the VTR does not require the extra lift hole. I have tried a K&N filter but always had a whole somewhere I could never get rid off. Well.... I would get it dialled out but a new one apear somewhere else. LOL BMC street filter was better and I am now back to a standard filter.

Greg why not just undo the choke cable at the frame and slide it through and lift them off with the carbs. It's a lot less fiddly. Then if you really want to remove the choke cable at the carbs it's easier with them off. I also don't bother clamping the coolant hose as they only loose a teaspoon (small spoon) of coolant if any.

Funny old things carbs and airboxs. By adding more air logic says one needs to add more gas to compensate, but this does not always work because by adding air it can draw more fuel through at a higher velocity.

I have just made some Dr Honda's out of fibreglass. I borrowed proper ones to use as a mould. I shall be doing a side by side dyno comparison before I make any changes. I want to know beforehand exactly what changes and where before messing with by jetting. I shall put my BMC street back in (been meaning to do this) then get it all dialled in and get another dyno run to see how it all turns out.



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Old 05-01-2013, 02:10 PM
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That's actually not a bad idea on the choke **** removal. I might try that next time.

As far as carb setup goes, honestly every bike is different. Mine just happens to run good with the K&N. I will let Erik bask in superiority () thinking that the K&N sucks, and maybe one day I'll get my *** to a dyno and see how the power is now that she's on the other side of 50k and prove that my setup actually works.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkrider View Post
That's actually not a bad idea on the choke **** removal. I might try that next time.

As far as carb setup goes, honestly every bike is different. Mine just happens to run good with the K&N. I will let Erik bask in superiority () thinking that the K&N sucks, and maybe one day I'll get my *** to a dyno and see how the power is now that she's on the other side of 50k and prove that my setup actually works.
Anything is possible.... and as stated each bike will react differently to a MOD or specific tuning setup.
So I can accept some have had luck with the Dj kit and K&N filters.

I know I did not on the two SH I've installed them on, run on dynos for Af feedback vice seat o pants guessing. I know, that good power AND runnability was not achieved in more than a dozen changes.. I got decent power at top, good TQ at bottom, no stumble or flame out and great runnability... Just none of the two or more at the same time

I've had great luck with Dj kits in dozens of other bikes,,,... just not this one.

To each his own.. if folks are seeing 110~120HP, good TQ, no runnability issues at all with a K&N filter and DJ kit installed per instructions.. OUTSTANDING.. Happy it worked for you.. For me, it did not.
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