Brand new R/R failure
07-02-2009, 04:27 PM
#1
The Hypno-Toad
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Brand new R/R failure
Okay superhawkers I need some advice on this one. My mechanic installed the new Rick's R/R since I was dying in front of his shop. He tested it at 14.4 volts at idle, recharged my battery and took it out for a test drive. I picked it up drove five miles home last night. I started it for work this morning and the battery sounded weak, but I figured it just needed a better charge. I rode 22 miles to work with no problem. When I came out for lunch it was flat dead, no lights or anything. I thought after all the abuse of the battery it may have failed. A guy a work picked up a new battery for me and I installed it. It fired right up, but at idle it's reading 11.8 volts. I called the mechanic back and he's going to get me another R/R so I can at least get it back to him hopefully. Is this a failed stator that's blowing out my R/R, or maybe a fluke defect Rick's unit? Does this sound familiar to anyone?
07-02-2009, 04:43 PM
#2
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You may wanna try a new battery.... I have a Rick Motorsport R/R... 5K on it, and no issues, but you never know. Personally, I'd try a new battery first, as if you really wore it out when the old R/R failed, it might be the problem.
J.
J.
07-02-2009, 04:45 PM
#3
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07-03-2009, 01:16 AM
#7
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Yes, check stator 1st.
If it checks out with no shorts, it wont harm a R/R.
I say this time and time again, connect the negative cable 1st, then be carefull to not spark the positive like a noob when connecting.
Even mine can be harmed if you service the battery like a monkey.
A real fast way to pop the regulator is leave the key on when connecting the positive.
Hopefully they dont drag their feet getting you a replacement.
If it checks out with no shorts, it wont harm a R/R.
I say this time and time again, connect the negative cable 1st, then be carefull to not spark the positive like a noob when connecting.
Even mine can be harmed if you service the battery like a monkey.
A real fast way to pop the regulator is leave the key on when connecting the positive.
Hopefully they dont drag their feet getting you a replacement.
07-06-2009, 01:08 PM
#8
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Update...If I tested it right each leg is reading 1.8 MOhm. I put one lead on the blades at the connector, the 3 yellow wires and ran the other to the negative terminal. The manual says 0.2 - 0.5 Ohms. So like I said, if I did it right I have a problem.
07-06-2009, 01:13 PM
#9
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You didnt test right.
follow the test procedure here www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
You measure to ground from each leg only for continuity, not for an ohms reading.
The ohms reading is BETWEEN the three yellow wires, not from them to ground.
follow the test procedure here www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
You measure to ground from each leg only for continuity, not for an ohms reading.
The ohms reading is BETWEEN the three yellow wires, not from them to ground.
07-06-2009, 01:41 PM
#10
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You didnt test right.
follow the test procedure here www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
You measure to ground from each leg only for continuity, not for an ohms reading.
The ohms reading is BETWEEN the three yellow wires, not from them to ground.
follow the test procedure here www.motovoltage.com/tech.htm
You measure to ground from each leg only for continuity, not for an ohms reading.
The ohms reading is BETWEEN the three yellow wires, not from them to ground.
07-06-2009, 01:45 PM
#11
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If it doesnt beep for continuity, or it shows the OL message, theres no short to ground.
Sounds like two sets of windings are shorting together.
This is fried chicken city when it comes to stuff happeneing at the rectifier.
Whats the exact readings between the three sets?
acceptable range is only .5 ohms to maybe 4 ohms ... pushing it.
Oh, and I trust youre doing it right ... but just in case , lol ( my customer yesterday at the shop LOL ... -measure the three prongs leading TO the stator, not the rectifier.
Last edited by Circuit_Burner; 07-06-2009 at 01:48 PM.
07-06-2009, 04:49 PM
#12
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I had something similar happen last year. I torched a brand new electrosports regulator. After further testing I figured out it was the stator. I wish I could remember the readings I got, but not gonna happen after a year. I would double check all your readings. You should also be able to test for AC voltage on each phase of the stator. I think this is how we finally figured out it was the stator on my bike.
07-06-2009, 06:24 PM
#13
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I had something similar happen last year. I torched a brand new electrosports regulator. After further testing I figured out it was the stator. I wish I could remember the readings I got, but not gonna happen after a year. I would double check all your readings. You should also be able to test for AC voltage on each phase of the stator. I think this is how we finally figured out it was the stator on my bike.
07-06-2009, 08:18 PM
#14
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They can be, I rewind them for 150, in some cases the stock replacements are just as cheap.
If you have a goldwing or something like a ducati, or cagiva or triumph they cost over 600.
Some BMW stators are over $1000.
So in that case its very cost effective to rebuild them.
Many japanese stators (ex-Suzuki) are made with minimal spec wire, so they dont handle very much abuse. GSXR stators arent even doped between winding layers either, so they dont live as long as honda stators that are doped thoroughly between the layers.
If you find new Honda stators for less than 150 its a good choice, if they are available.
If I rewind them at least you know the best wire and materials are used.
Its a good thing that stators are easy to check, since R/R are next to impossible to static-test without running it on a spinning rotor.
If you have a goldwing or something like a ducati, or cagiva or triumph they cost over 600.
Some BMW stators are over $1000.
So in that case its very cost effective to rebuild them.
Many japanese stators (ex-Suzuki) are made with minimal spec wire, so they dont handle very much abuse. GSXR stators arent even doped between winding layers either, so they dont live as long as honda stators that are doped thoroughly between the layers.
If you find new Honda stators for less than 150 its a good choice, if they are available.
If I rewind them at least you know the best wire and materials are used.
Its a good thing that stators are easy to check, since R/R are next to impossible to static-test without running it on a spinning rotor.
07-07-2009, 12:21 AM
#19
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Seriously, with shipping 2 ways, and tax, and all that , mine would cost close enough to the ron ayers part ( genuine honda part) that I would suggest going with ron ayers.com for a new one.
Ron ayers is a great supplier, and I endorse them. They are slow to ship sometimes though.
(see, im not a profiteer!)
But if they couldnt supply the part in time, (I turn stators around in around 3 days, ship out) consider rebuilding, and you get a 'slightly' better part than stock...( since honda's supplier makes very very good stators already) , with a guarantee.
I dont know of anyone with a stator warranty.
The real need for my service would be for mods.
If you need more ... or less power (for racing we leave out windings, for obvious reasons), we cant be beat.
I can add windings for extra wattage, and the desert racers and endurance racers go for this. Oh, goldwing and other touring bikes can always use more capacity when the bikes lit-up like a spaceship from close encounters.
I will buy your burned up stator for $20.00 as long as its not completely screwed and un-rebuildable.
Ron ayers is a great supplier, and I endorse them. They are slow to ship sometimes though.
(see, im not a profiteer!)
But if they couldnt supply the part in time, (I turn stators around in around 3 days, ship out) consider rebuilding, and you get a 'slightly' better part than stock...( since honda's supplier makes very very good stators already) , with a guarantee.
I dont know of anyone with a stator warranty.
The real need for my service would be for mods.
If you need more ... or less power (for racing we leave out windings, for obvious reasons), we cant be beat.
I can add windings for extra wattage, and the desert racers and endurance racers go for this. Oh, goldwing and other touring bikes can always use more capacity when the bikes lit-up like a spaceship from close encounters.
I will buy your burned up stator for $20.00 as long as its not completely screwed and un-rebuildable.
Last edited by Circuit_Burner; 07-07-2009 at 12:24 AM.
07-07-2009, 12:50 AM
#20
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Wait, after reviewing your post, you say the readings are all over the place?
did you mean that when you test a section over again, it reads a different measurement?
If this is the case , you are not getting a good connection with your probes against the plug metal. Plug metal surface is probably not clean and will do this.
You have to get a solid connection for an accurate reading.
Dont spend any money on squat until you get repeatable results on each section.
Write down the measurements and what section you measured, then make damn sure you are getting repeatedly solid measurements that arent floating.
There are NO readings that float that can be considered accurate.
In other words, the resistance between the windings WILL NOT change or vary when testing.
did you mean that when you test a section over again, it reads a different measurement?
If this is the case , you are not getting a good connection with your probes against the plug metal. Plug metal surface is probably not clean and will do this.
You have to get a solid connection for an accurate reading.
Dont spend any money on squat until you get repeatable results on each section.
Write down the measurements and what section you measured, then make damn sure you are getting repeatedly solid measurements that arent floating.
There are NO readings that float that can be considered accurate.
In other words, the resistance between the windings WILL NOT change or vary when testing.
Last edited by Circuit_Burner; 07-07-2009 at 12:54 AM.
07-07-2009, 06:20 AM
#21
The Hypno-Toad
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Wait, after reviewing your post, you say the readings are all over the place?
did you mean that when you test a section over again, it reads a different measurement?
If this is the case , you are not getting a good connection with your probes against the plug metal. Plug metal surface is probably not clean and will do this.
You have to get a solid connection for an accurate reading.
Dont spend any money on squat until you get repeatable results on each section.
Write down the measurements and what section you measured, then make damn sure you are getting repeatedly solid measurements that arent floating.
There are NO readings that float that can be considered accurate.
In other words, the resistance between the windings WILL NOT change or vary when testing.
did you mean that when you test a section over again, it reads a different measurement?
If this is the case , you are not getting a good connection with your probes against the plug metal. Plug metal surface is probably not clean and will do this.
You have to get a solid connection for an accurate reading.
Dont spend any money on squat until you get repeatable results on each section.
Write down the measurements and what section you measured, then make damn sure you are getting repeatedly solid measurements that arent floating.
There are NO readings that float that can be considered accurate.
In other words, the resistance between the windings WILL NOT change or vary when testing.
07-07-2009, 06:47 AM
#22
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Those are fine as far as I know.
No personal experience though.
make sure its not remanufactured.
If its new jump on it.
Also check to see if they will warranty it at all.
In theory if it doesnt fritz out in the 1st week of operation, it will go the distance.
No personal experience though.
make sure its not remanufactured.
If its new jump on it.
Also check to see if they will warranty it at all.
In theory if it doesnt fritz out in the 1st week of operation, it will go the distance.
07-07-2009, 11:12 AM
#24
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Electrosport/Electrex
Hi there... I'm new to the boards here, but I remember finding some very helpful info for my old bike, an (86 Suzuki GS750e) on the Electrex (apparently it's now called Electrosport?) website..
users at www.thegsresources.com speak very highly of the Electrex brand replacement stators & reg/rec units, so I tried one in my old bike, and it worked fine the rest of the time I owned the GS... I just sold it in April because I got a red 98 VTR 1000 :-)
The chart below will help break the diagnosis down into more easy user friendly steps...
www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
users at www.thegsresources.com speak very highly of the Electrex brand replacement stators & reg/rec units, so I tried one in my old bike, and it worked fine the rest of the time I owned the GS... I just sold it in April because I got a red 98 VTR 1000 :-)
The chart below will help break the diagnosis down into more easy user friendly steps...
www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
07-07-2009, 12:14 PM
#25
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He was measuring ohms from the plug leading to the R/R, not the stator.
Easy and honest mistake, but funny.
And about GS systems, the GS and most other suzukis have little weak magnets in their rotors compared to the huge magnets in our superhawk rotors.
The superhawk rotor produces a huge AC pulse thru the stator compared to most other bikes.
Thats why our R/R have such a hard life and die like they do.
Easy and honest mistake, but funny.
And about GS systems, the GS and most other suzukis have little weak magnets in their rotors compared to the huge magnets in our superhawk rotors.
The superhawk rotor produces a huge AC pulse thru the stator compared to most other bikes.
Thats why our R/R have such a hard life and die like they do.
07-07-2009, 03:43 PM
#28
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$382 grand total for this one. Hopefully I can actually be riding by the end of the week.
Oh yeah, dumb question. Do I have to drain the oil to change the stator? From the manual it doesn't seem like it.
07-07-2009, 04:03 PM
#30
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