Better crash protection for VTR
12-13-2010, 11:51 AM
#31
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I also like to do this when slowing down- click that brake lever switch a couple of times so they know something is going down with that two wheeled vehicle in front of them.
12-13-2010, 12:07 PM
#32
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A few replies back you've made a statement, and I quote: "A traffic accident however means that you, me, who-ever is on the bike has made an error... That's fact, nothing else..."
I was only arguing that.
I never said that most of the accidents occur out of simple misfortune,but rather somebody's fault. But you can't ignore the fact that there are accidents which can't be avoided/predicted. And they are not as few as you'd wish/expect.
My example with the idiot behind, rear-ending you, is very precise, and it points to the situation where that persno didn't give out any warning/signs that he might rear-end you at the last second.
And even with a scenario where you catch a glimpse of an idiot coming in too fast in your rear mirror, 80% of situations you won't have enough time to put it in gear and move away. Or even if you do have it in gear, where do you go? in front, in cross-coming traffic? to the left (in collision with other vehicles who are coming your way?), to the right where? in a car near you? It's not rocket science. not to mention you have to think this in a split second, before that's exactly what you have, 1 or 2 seconds tops, before the idiot crashes into you.
It's not like you can see him alwasy 100 metres away,behind and you have time to roll out of his way doing a wheelie and saluting....
I was only arguing that.
I never said that most of the accidents occur out of simple misfortune,but rather somebody's fault. But you can't ignore the fact that there are accidents which can't be avoided/predicted. And they are not as few as you'd wish/expect.
My example with the idiot behind, rear-ending you, is very precise, and it points to the situation where that persno didn't give out any warning/signs that he might rear-end you at the last second.
And even with a scenario where you catch a glimpse of an idiot coming in too fast in your rear mirror, 80% of situations you won't have enough time to put it in gear and move away. Or even if you do have it in gear, where do you go? in front, in cross-coming traffic? to the left (in collision with other vehicles who are coming your way?), to the right where? in a car near you? It's not rocket science. not to mention you have to think this in a split second, before that's exactly what you have, 1 or 2 seconds tops, before the idiot crashes into you.
It's not like you can see him alwasy 100 metres away,behind and you have time to roll out of his way doing a wheelie and saluting....
As for the situation you described... I have been in that situation, so I know how it could end... The car coming up behind me had a drunk driver behind the wheel, and he was more or less passed out, coming in to fast, and it looked a bit unstable... Fairly light traffic, and I had the bike in gear, so I just went between the cars in front of me, the car ended up plowing into the car i had been standing behind... Thankfully I was far back enough to just punch it and get away... So I know how that works...
Now on topic:
A bike will never be safe, unless you keep it in the garage (and even there accidents DO happen,stupid ones especially)
I'm not with mounting extended bars & sh|t because I love the way the firestorm looks and I don't wanna transform it into some sort of R1150 GS looking thing, just for the sake of the fairings & etc.
I wanna make it as "lightCRASH-resistant" as possible with as little aesthetics intrusion as possible and with as little cash possible (because it wouldn't be WISE to spend a larger amount of money on making the bike like a tank, than it would cost to repair it, would it?)
I'm only aiming to protect the bike from sliding on the asphalt and minor falls (at small speeds).
If anything greater/serious would occur, the shape of the bike would be the last thing on anybody's mind, rather then the health of the rider.
Now for the retarded bit of the question: Where could one get one of those CF covers? or out of what other type of material/metal cand one be manufactured and how should it be glued/sticked to the clutch case. Having the dissipation of heat in mind,as well,as we don't wanna obstruct the cooling of the case, as well.
A bike will never be safe, unless you keep it in the garage (and even there accidents DO happen,stupid ones especially)
I'm not with mounting extended bars & sh|t because I love the way the firestorm looks and I don't wanna transform it into some sort of R1150 GS looking thing, just for the sake of the fairings & etc.
I wanna make it as "lightCRASH-resistant" as possible with as little aesthetics intrusion as possible and with as little cash possible (because it wouldn't be WISE to spend a larger amount of money on making the bike like a tank, than it would cost to repair it, would it?)
I'm only aiming to protect the bike from sliding on the asphalt and minor falls (at small speeds).
If anything greater/serious would occur, the shape of the bike would be the last thing on anybody's mind, rather then the health of the rider.
Now for the retarded bit of the question: Where could one get one of those CF covers? or out of what other type of material/metal cand one be manufactured and how should it be glued/sticked to the clutch case. Having the dissipation of heat in mind,as well,as we don't wanna obstruct the cooling of the case, as well.
Last edited by Tweety; 12-14-2010 at 03:39 AM.
12-13-2010, 12:44 PM
#33
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I'm not trying to be abrasive here, but I have a feeling that every scenario you present will have some sort of way to avoid it...
When I read defensive riding books and listen to experienced (alive) riders, they have addressed this scenario before, so here goes:
1) Always have your bike in gear- sometimes I don't but that's at 5am when there are zero cars in sight and I want to adjust my helmet or something.
2) When pulling up to a stoplight behind a car, align yourself in a way so that if you have to make a quick go, you can. I tend to line up on the left side of the car and give myself a couple of feet so it won't be uncomfortable to pull beside it or past it. Gives you a better view of what's in front of you too I've found. If I come to a stoplight and I'm in front, I usually give a few feet so that I can make a 90 degree turn either way without entering perpendicular traffic. It doesn't take that much space really...
3) As for having a split second to think, my opinion is that you have more. Just run through the steps: If a car is coming up, pay attention to it. If it's coming up really fast (50mph) you will probably notice that something isn't right sooner than 10 feet behind you. Cars don't just gun it until the last second to stop. Most people slow down. Same for if you're slowing down to turn with cars behind you- if they don't notice you, you can often tell. I'm always paranoid of a rear end b/c I hear horror stories all the time- A few on this forum. Sometimes drivers make mistakes, but if you plan for it an "oh ****" moment followed by a crash can often become just another day of riding. I've had more than one situation that later reflection made me realize that if I hadn't been alert I could have been in trouble.
That being said, we're all human and no one can get it right 100% of the time, I just like making my odds better and am always willing to listen to new techniques and tips.
When I read defensive riding books and listen to experienced (alive) riders, they have addressed this scenario before, so here goes:
1) Always have your bike in gear- sometimes I don't but that's at 5am when there are zero cars in sight and I want to adjust my helmet or something.
2) When pulling up to a stoplight behind a car, align yourself in a way so that if you have to make a quick go, you can. I tend to line up on the left side of the car and give myself a couple of feet so it won't be uncomfortable to pull beside it or past it. Gives you a better view of what's in front of you too I've found. If I come to a stoplight and I'm in front, I usually give a few feet so that I can make a 90 degree turn either way without entering perpendicular traffic. It doesn't take that much space really...
3) As for having a split second to think, my opinion is that you have more. Just run through the steps: If a car is coming up, pay attention to it. If it's coming up really fast (50mph) you will probably notice that something isn't right sooner than 10 feet behind you. Cars don't just gun it until the last second to stop. Most people slow down. Same for if you're slowing down to turn with cars behind you- if they don't notice you, you can often tell. I'm always paranoid of a rear end b/c I hear horror stories all the time- A few on this forum. Sometimes drivers make mistakes, but if you plan for it an "oh ****" moment followed by a crash can often become just another day of riding. I've had more than one situation that later reflection made me realize that if I hadn't been alert I could have been in trouble.
That being said, we're all human and no one can get it right 100% of the time, I just like making my odds better and am always willing to listen to new techniques and tips.
You people should realize that in THEORY is one thing,and real life with all the unforeseen details/surprises is another thing.
Having the bike in gear at EVERY STOP/TRAFFIC light is a bit overkill for me. I know it's probably a safe thing to do,but I'm also thinking of the clutch and I'm not a very mechanical/technical guy,but I think keeping the bike in gear at stops is abusing the clutch a bit.
Of course ,the chances of a car coming from behind at 100 mph are very slight, but that doesn't mean it's not possible,and I don't think somebody wants to argue with something like this as being totally impossible.
There are MANY scenarios where a car can surprise you from behind,without any notice/warning.
It doesn't take that much speed for it to surprise you and catch you off-guard. And by off-guard I mean : you looking into a different side of the traffic.
What if you get distracted by somebody passing by in front of you, a stupid chick, some drunk *******,a idiot with a car coming too close to you from a cross-street, and in those 1-2 seconds you FORGET about the rear mirror, and then BAM,from behind. You don't have eyes in the back of your head, and you can't watch all directions at once,especially if a threat presents itself from the front/side etc.
I know where you are coming from, with the situations that you explained.
All I'm saying is that there are MANY situations which can't simply be avoided due to the way we are made, the way we think, the way we perceive things. We are human. We're not robots with motion detection sensors, or proximity sensors.
Perhaps a bike should be equipped with high tech sensor for both proximity and analyze the speed of incoming /outgoing traffic/objects and when it considers that an object is a thread, should zap the rider with a small voltage (because a simple flash LED warning wouldn't suffice).
Hope you understand my point of view as well.
World is full of clumsy/drunk/irresponsible/and all sorts of DRIVERS/RIDERS.
There are more and more cars/vehicles & threats on the road.
And a bike is more prone to crash than any other vehicle.
What might cost a small dent in the door of a car, might cost a fall or unbalance of a rider,causing him to loose the control of the bike & crash into something else..
12-13-2010, 01:27 PM
#34
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In what way does you abuse the clutch by having the bike in gear at a stoplight?! Now you have to explain this for me, since I'm completely a mechanical/practical guy... so to me wierd *** guesswork without knowing makes no sense, at all...
Plus, theory vs practics... Yeah, I know something about that... Theory is you guessing... Practice is me, and several others on the forum, having tried the car up the *** scenario in real life... For me it was a "oh ****" moment followed by standing around waiting for the police... For others it was a bit more painful...
Plus, theory vs practics... Yeah, I know something about that... Theory is you guessing... Practice is me, and several others on the forum, having tried the car up the *** scenario in real life... For me it was a "oh ****" moment followed by standing around waiting for the police... For others it was a bit more painful...
12-13-2010, 01:33 PM
#35
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haha, man, just laugh or else life gets long real fast...
I don't think I misunderstood... I mean, a meteor could hit and you'd be toast and no amount of checking your mirrors will prevent that. Who knows, maybe someone would argue that if you kept up with your astrology you would have been out of the area at that time of day
I was actually just trying to help out- giving my two cents on making the situation you described a bit less dangerous. I can't guarantee that I won't die of a heart attack later on, but there are certainly things I can do to reduce the chances of it happening...
As far as the clutch thing, and I may be corrected on this, I only think that it's wearing on the plates if you're in the "friction zone". In other words, if it's all the way engaged or all the way disengaged you aren't doing any damage. It's the part that's in between that causes wear... wear that is designed to happen at that...
I don't think I misunderstood... I mean, a meteor could hit and you'd be toast and no amount of checking your mirrors will prevent that. Who knows, maybe someone would argue that if you kept up with your astrology you would have been out of the area at that time of day
I was actually just trying to help out- giving my two cents on making the situation you described a bit less dangerous. I can't guarantee that I won't die of a heart attack later on, but there are certainly things I can do to reduce the chances of it happening...
As far as the clutch thing, and I may be corrected on this, I only think that it's wearing on the plates if you're in the "friction zone". In other words, if it's all the way engaged or all the way disengaged you aren't doing any damage. It's the part that's in between that causes wear... wear that is designed to happen at that...
12-14-2010, 03:06 AM
#36
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In what way does you abuse the clutch by having the bike in gear at a stoplight?! Now you have to explain this for me, since I'm completely a mechanical/practical guy... so to me wierd *** guesswork without knowing makes no sense, at all...
Plus, theory vs practics... Yeah, I know something about that... Theory is you guessing... Practice is me, and several others on the forum, having tried the car up the *** scenario in real life... For me it was a "oh ****" moment followed by standing around waiting for the police... For others it was a bit more painful...
Plus, theory vs practics... Yeah, I know something about that... Theory is you guessing... Practice is me, and several others on the forum, having tried the car up the *** scenario in real life... For me it was a "oh ****" moment followed by standing around waiting for the police... For others it was a bit more painful...
I don't know what theory vs "practics" you are talking about.
The fact that you got rear ended by some **** doesn't make you a hero or something.
Everybody has accidents, yours doesn't make you any more special then the one sitting next to you.
I just picked the example with the car rear-ending a bike,just random.
I didn't know you got rear-ended. I hope I didn't touch any sensitive sides or bring back some bad memories. My bad. Take it like a man.
There are several other scenarios for accidents which can't be prevented in my opinion (but in yours, they can).
Perhaps you should have prevented that car from rear-ending you, if you're that good in theory here on the forum.
Let's just stick with the 'technical' advice regarding crash protection to VTR.
I don't wanna get into any other sort of discussions...
12-14-2010, 03:33 AM
#37
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As I've said, i'm not that mechanical/technical regarding the clutch thing. It was only an assumption. So if you wanna hang me for that, go ahead.
I don't know what theory vs "practics" you are talking about.
The fact that you got rear ended by some **** doesn't make you a hero or something.
Everybody has accidents, yours doesn't make you any more special then the one sitting next to you.
I just picked the example with the car rear-ending a bike,just random.
I didn't know you got rear-ended. I hope I didn't touch any sensitive sides or bring back some bad memories. My bad. Take it like a man.
There are several other scenarios for accidents which can't be prevented in my opinion (but in yours, they can).
Perhaps you should have prevented that car from rear-ending you, if you're that good in theory here on the forum.
Let's just stick with the 'technical' advice regarding crash protection to VTR.
I don't wanna get into any other sort of discussions...
I don't know what theory vs "practics" you are talking about.
The fact that you got rear ended by some **** doesn't make you a hero or something.
Everybody has accidents, yours doesn't make you any more special then the one sitting next to you.
I just picked the example with the car rear-ending a bike,just random.
I didn't know you got rear-ended. I hope I didn't touch any sensitive sides or bring back some bad memories. My bad. Take it like a man.
There are several other scenarios for accidents which can't be prevented in my opinion (but in yours, they can).
Perhaps you should have prevented that car from rear-ending you, if you're that good in theory here on the forum.
Let's just stick with the 'technical' advice regarding crash protection to VTR.
I don't wanna get into any other sort of discussions...
One... I didn't, nor have I any intention to "hang you" for whatever you assume about the clutch... I prefer to point out that you in this case are misinformed... 7moore7's decription is pretty spot on...
Two... I didn't get rear ended... That was the point of my argument... I was however very close to being rear ended, and checking my mirrors at that stopsign and having the bike in gear and leaving myself an escape route saved me from that... Something I actually learned from discussions on this forum from others that wasn't as lucky... So I pass it on... If you listen or not is your choice...
And three... Nope, I'm not a hero... And no, you didn't hit a nerve or something... But your language and tone have been borderline rude on a few posts now, and getting worse the more agitated you get... So I think I'll take my leave before this escalates into name calling, I have given my info on how I have protected my bike and I have no interest in arguing with you...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-14-2010 at 03:37 AM.
12-14-2010, 03:41 AM
#38
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I can hear it coming now.
I'm waiting for it.
It will come.
It appears that Insider is wearing out someone's patience. I can hear the word "SEARCH" coming.
Insider, you need to open up Google, and start searching. I sincerely doubt that you will get much more technical advice out of this group, especially Tweety now that you have directly insulted him.
Good luck finding those CF covers and whatever you were seeking.
I'm waiting for it.
It will come.
It appears that Insider is wearing out someone's patience. I can hear the word "SEARCH" coming.
Insider, you need to open up Google, and start searching. I sincerely doubt that you will get much more technical advice out of this group, especially Tweety now that you have directly insulted him.
Good luck finding those CF covers and whatever you were seeking.
12-14-2010, 03:51 AM
#39
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I can hear it coming now.
I'm waiting for it.
It will come.
It appears that Insider is wearing out someone's patience. I can hear the word "SEARCH" coming.
Insider, you need to open up Google, and start searching. I sincerely doubt that you will get much more technical advice out of this group, especially Tweety now that you have directly insulted him.
Good luck finding those CF covers and whatever you were seeking.
I'm waiting for it.
It will come.
It appears that Insider is wearing out someone's patience. I can hear the word "SEARCH" coming.
Insider, you need to open up Google, and start searching. I sincerely doubt that you will get much more technical advice out of this group, especially Tweety now that you have directly insulted him.
Good luck finding those CF covers and whatever you were seeking.
And nope, not insulted... Not even close... 
But I really have no more information to give, unless someone asks an intelligent question that fires of a few synapses...
12-14-2010, 06:25 AM
#40
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Tweety , nobody's gonna call you names, rest assured.
If you find my language a bit rude, perhaps i got more on your sensitive side.
My bad, and I apologize for that.
Thanks for the info provided (to you & others who supplied me with tips & info).
An intelligent question lies in the 'mind' of the beholder, sort of speak..
It's a good thing I've managed to clear my confusion regarding the clutch.
For some unknown reason, I always thought that keeping the clutch engaged at stops would wear it off... I'm not very mechanical, but nor retarded (hopefully ).
That being said, \/ peace to everyone involved, and even if the topic seems 'consumed', if there are others who can contribute with any ideas...
If you find my language a bit rude, perhaps i got more on your sensitive side.
My bad, and I apologize for that.
Thanks for the info provided (to you & others who supplied me with tips & info).
An intelligent question lies in the 'mind' of the beholder, sort of speak..
It's a good thing I've managed to clear my confusion regarding the clutch.
For some unknown reason, I always thought that keeping the clutch engaged at stops would wear it off... I'm not very mechanical, but nor retarded (hopefully
).That being said, \/ peace to everyone involved, and even if the topic seems 'consumed', if there are others who can contribute with any ideas...
12-14-2010, 11:45 AM
#42
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I do realize that i am a **** because I didn't even get the VTR yet (hopefully will get one until Feb).
The one I had was a 2000 model, I'm thinking of getting an 1998-2001 one, because they're cheaper, and if it runs fine, for me,it doesn't justify the extra money which i can spend on other 'extras' (better brake lines,tyres, xenon,etc)
The one I had was a 2000 model, I'm thinking of getting an 1998-2001 one, because they're cheaper, and if it runs fine, for me,it doesn't justify the extra money which i can spend on other 'extras' (better brake lines,tyres, xenon,etc)
12-16-2010, 06:44 AM
#43
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Wow, this has been one of the less informative but more entertaining posts I have stumbled upon. I guess with EVERYTHING possible already covered we need something new and entertaining to read!
Just my two cents, nobody seems to make much mention of Oggy *****. After a 40-50 mph slide picked the bike up to find only a tiny scratch on the front fairing, bent shifter, and clutch lever. The slider mount was slightly bent, which in my mind is a good thing. Sent an email to the folks at Oggy telling them how great their product worked and asking how to get a replacement puck. For no charge whatsoever, not even shipping, they sent along a complete unit in the package! The replacement had a more robust mount, which i am not sure is such a good idea. The way the first one bent slightly seemed perfect as far as taking stress of the mounting bolt. These things also make a cool spot to hang the bike in certain circumstances!
Just my two cents, nobody seems to make much mention of Oggy *****. After a 40-50 mph slide picked the bike up to find only a tiny scratch on the front fairing, bent shifter, and clutch lever. The slider mount was slightly bent, which in my mind is a good thing. Sent an email to the folks at Oggy telling them how great their product worked and asking how to get a replacement puck. For no charge whatsoever, not even shipping, they sent along a complete unit in the package! The replacement had a more robust mount, which i am not sure is such a good idea. The way the first one bent slightly seemed perfect as far as taking stress of the mounting bolt. These things also make a cool spot to hang the bike in certain circumstances!
12-16-2010, 06:53 AM
#44
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RIPI... You really haven't been around here long have you? In what part of the world are you at all times handed information for free without any effort on your own? You tent to get tons of info here if you spend a few minutes of doing some basic research on your own and then asking questions... Do it the other way around and you just get entertained...
12-16-2010, 12:31 PM
#48
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Brake Light Flasher
Certainly could make it even more entertaining, just stepping carefully at first. Will be sure to avoid such rediculousness in the future! 
On the rear ending thing, been there to the point the kid's squealing tires scared the crap out of me. Was putting it in gear to move as he came to a stop a few feet behind me....
Add one of these to your brake light circuit somewhere in the undertail. It is a 12 led light bar that flashes five times before going solid red. Eliminates the need to think about flashing your brake lights. The less thinking involved the better! Stuck the thing to the top of my plate with the included double sided tape and it works great. Would also be effective further forward while remaining bright enough even covered in road grime. Also used some other cool stuff from customdynamics for more visible directionals. Will post some pix on a new thread when I get a second.
http://www.customdynamics.com/knight..._light_bar.htm Fl
http://www.customdynamics.com/Images/NightRider2.jpg
On the rear ending thing, been there to the point the kid's squealing tires scared the crap out of me. Was putting it in gear to move as he came to a stop a few feet behind me....
Add one of these to your brake light circuit somewhere in the undertail. It is a 12 led light bar that flashes five times before going solid red. Eliminates the need to think about flashing your brake lights. The less thinking involved the better! Stuck the thing to the top of my plate with the included double sided tape and it works great. Would also be effective further forward while remaining bright enough even covered in road grime. Also used some other cool stuff from customdynamics for more visible directionals. Will post some pix on a new thread when I get a second.
http://www.customdynamics.com/knight..._light_bar.htm Fl
http://www.customdynamics.com/Images/NightRider2.jpg
12-16-2010, 01:23 PM
#49
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It's also nice to have the habit for when I'm on other bikes that don't have flashers. Not trying to dissuade the safety, tho- everything you can do would help!
And insider, peace man- there are so many things on motorcycles to figure out that it all comes in pieces. Got some clutch understanding down a little more, who knows what's next? I still have to explain to every single one of my friends why the front brakes are bigger and you use them more...
And Tweety thinks that batteries are giant water tanks
12-16-2010, 09:25 PM
#50
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Insider, I am guessing you are the type of guy who hits pool ball real hard hoping to get lucky (thinking its a game of chance). Some however spend the time, dicipline & focus to run out, playing careful position on each shot so as to rarely have a hard shot. After many years of commuting around 900 miles a week year round in & out of NYC I tend to be the second type. Amazingly they will sell bikes to anyone (and let anyone play pool) but it doesn't mean you are quite playing the same game.
12-18-2010, 10:26 AM
#51
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smokinjoe73: I was hesitating to 'reply',but..I can't help myself.
I don't play pool,but if I did, I'd probably hit 'em as you so well described. Why? Just because you said so.
Wish I had your character profiling skills...
I don't see the correlation between the topic (minor crash protection for VTR) and the way one hits pool *****, but then again,if I did......
And by the way, they sell computers to anyone,doesn't mean everybody should use one....
peace \/
I don't play pool,but if I did, I'd probably hit 'em as you so well described. Why? Just because you said so.
Wish I had your character profiling skills...
I don't see the correlation between the topic (minor crash protection for VTR) and the way one hits pool *****, but then again,if I did......
And by the way, they sell computers to anyone,doesn't mean everybody should use one....
peace \/
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