Better crash protection for VTR
 

I'm gonna say it up front that this might seem like a retarded post, but bare with me:

Many months ago I've wrecked my VTR (had an accident).

I'm thinking of gettin' a bike early next year, and the only one I've got my mind on is the VTR.

Before the crash I dropped the bike two times. (once some twat cut me off,without any signals or whatsoever, and another one due to my own stupidity).

Now I've come to learn that no matter how careful you are with your bike or how well you might think you can ride or how well you can look after yourself, SHIT is gonna happen, at some point.

After my second fall (at about 30km/h when the bike skidded on the asphalt on one side) ,I studied the damage and I leaned the (standing) bike gently on both sides, to see which parts are prone to damage,should the bike fall on either sides.

I've attached a pic with some parts/areas where I think damage will occur if a small crash/fall happens.

I've seen that stock exhausts (which I had) work very well as crash-pads (i've painted in green where the exhausts take the beating).

Protecting the parts of fairing which might take the 'hammering' is quite difficult/next to impossible, but I wanted to know if there is any protection for the clutch box ,some sort of tri-metallic brace which can be mounted over it, to prevent crack/damage if it skids on the asphalt.

This might sound dumb, because I assume that mounting standard crash-pads might prevent the clutch box getting damaged,but i'm not sure yet.

I believe that with stock exhaust and a pair of crashpads the bike should be ok at a gentle drop/minor fall.

Changing the exhausts to aftermarket ones will put some serious damage on the tail (fairing)

I don't wanna sound like some obsessive-compulsive suffering bloke,but why not do everything to prevent any damage, with very small costs, because these sort of damages can occur very easily.

This only applies in small crashes,of course, which can happen to anyone.

If you have any ideas, by all means......

there are a bunch of suppliers of the crash bobbin type protectors - they will help avoid major damage in a low speed tipover/slide. If the bike high sides or flips, who knows and you'll still get some damage.
These types of cages are also available. Someone had some fab'd up for the SH a long time ago and you might find some of those used. otherwise, the stunting suppliers will have them. They can impact cornering clearance if you are a very aggressive rider - so you'll want to check on that.

http://www.komodogear.com/store/vtr-...gine-cage.html

The stunting stuff is really for.....stunting. T-rex sliders have save my bike in 2 crashes (still same bodywork; no repair needed). You can get a set of F4i ones cheap to put as exhaust can sliders.

T-Rex slider are your best bet. Has saved my father's bike fairing twice. 1) drop in the drive way. 2)Real long slide, on Doggit Mtn. After the front end of the bike washed out. The T-Rex, bar-end, and exhaust can were killed. All were cheaper than the fairings, to repair, or replace..

smokinjoe- you used F4i sliders there? I am interested in a cheap non "no-cut" option

Yep all the points you pointed out on there are exactly what hit on my last lay down. The whole section around the radiator will hit the pavement though because the turn signal will break. I know 905 Racing made a sort of half cage for the VTR, but I cannot find them anywhere.

Some sort of bars or stunter cage.

thanks for the opinions. a stunt-cage is out of the question.
I wanna ride a normal bike,not a stunt bike & look like retard that can't ride 2 wheels:)

I'm not addicted to aesthetics,but I can't ignore 'em all the way. I mean I'd rather ride with a small dent/crack in the fairing ,or polished exhausts than with a cage...

I was just looking for very very light body work that can minimize the damage of a potential fall/slide.

When I'll get the bike I'll definitely get some crash-pads (that will keep the fairing a bit more protected).

Still thinking of some sort of clutch cover...
And some sort of rings over the end of the (stock) muffler, to take all the sliding..

Unfortunately no pictures, but T-Rex plus carbon fiber cover on the clutch/engine case and rigid footpegs meant that only those parts plus the blinkers where hurt when the bike and I skidded to a halt from 50 ish mph...

After that I replaced the CF covers, the delrin parts on the T-Rex aand the end of the footpegs, and the bar end weights and the bike looks new apart from a few very minor scratches on the fairing that I used touch up paint on...

well, you did say you've crashed once and dropped it twice already :) :)

but I agree, the cage setup isn't for me either. I just recall someone on this forum long ago getting some made and some other interest in them. I think one track school using SH used them also long ago. Good luck

Tweety so you agree with my goals to find and make a bike more crash-friendly :)

any ideas /links where one can get clutch/engine case cover?
Can you also elaborate on the 'rigid foot-pegs' issue?

T-rex are crash-pads? Are they any different from other brands? Or is it something special about them?

Thanks

T rex is just the brand. You can get them on ebay I believe. I have F4i on my daily bike & the "no cut" which are alot longer on the summer bike. The rest of my sliders were delrin you can buy in bar form from McMaster-carr.com by the foot and easily machine. It is almost cheaper to just buy F4i ones & just bolt them on at the passenger pegs. It is easily cut to adjust lenth. Bar ends can be made the same way.

Trust me... I'm fighting the urge to say "go search" and walk away... I'm really fighting it... So just to satisfy me curiosity... Have you done any research on your own?

T-rex are a brand of crrash protectors, as has been said, and the CF case covers where of eBay, go search an they pop up now and then... S for the footpegs, click the image in my sig...

This is hilarious. Please, keep going.

My T-Rex sliders have saved me loads of $ in repairs since I got them.

Tweety; the therapy is working, you resisted that urge to say go search!! Lets try to use this thread for somethng useful. Wouldn't it be better to bolt up some other slider type stuff on the cases? Aluminum like the race stuff? Will the carbon fiber hold up under stress? I haven't gone that far yet but it seems like a skidplate would make sense.

4-pt mount & cross-braced case guards
 

the best coverage & light weight protection short of a Trojan I found...

Bah, humbug... ;) It still annoys me when people obviuosly do no research on their own... So if the OP wan't that much constructive help from me, he still has the time to correct that...

As for the CF on the engine cases, I'm assuming that is what you are talking about? It held up just fine, in fact it didn't really need replacing after I went down, it was still good but looked nasty, I just replaced it for looks... It basically saved me from the classic grinding the case until it leaks problem... And it's just held on by silicone sealant...

The downside with stuff that you bolt on is the same as the advantage... It bolts on... Ie it's sitting firm, and when it gets hit, it transfers that hit to the bolts, potentially harming the case there even though it takes the grinding effect away...

The thinner CF doesn't much take away the hit, it still transfers that to the case, but not to any bolts specifically, but distributes it even over a larger area, since it's firmly up against the case... Reduces the chance of cracking the case from impact, and CF is a lot more resistant to grinding than alu engine cases...

This is a technical section, not a moral one.
It's not relevant how many times i've dropped it or will drop it.
The subject in discussion is relevant.

I always come by these misconception that if you drop your bike you're some kind of retard idiot and as if accidents can ONLY happen out of your own fault.
Grow up

Tweety, that makes sense. I am just wanting case covers that are a little less sacraficial. Ones that could survive like a slider. On my race bike I put skid plates that I got off the bottom of a scateboard. Those saved my fairings at 100mph crashes. Maybe those over the CF ones.
Sidenote; Insider, every crash IS your own fault. The sooner you embrace this the safer you will be.

No... This is a forum... That means whatever subject the majority prefers to discuss is relevant...

Dropping you bike while in the garage or at walking speed isn't an accident, it's a mishap... Those happen to anyone and in most cases whatever crash protection you have will really have no effect... The reason is simple, they aren't designed to take that type of damage, they are intended for sliding...

A traffic accident however means that you, me, who-ever is on the bike has made an error... That's fact, nothing else... Doesn't make you either retarded or an idiot, but it does mean that you are somewhat responsible...

Telling people that are helping you to grow up, however qualifies as unwise and somewhat rude... My interpretation on the events, not calling you names... Cya...

Dropping you bike while in the garage or at walking speed isn't an accident, it's a mishap... Those happen to anyone and in most cases whatever crash protection you have will really have no effect... The reason is simple, they aren't designed to take that type of damage, they are intended for sliding...

A traffic accident however means that you, me, who-ever is on the bike has made an error... That's fact, nothing else... Doesn't make you either retarded or an idiot, but it does mean that you are somewhat responsible...

Telling people that are helping you to grow up, however qualifies as unwise and somewhat rude... My interpretation on the events, not calling you names... Cya...[/quote]

This is no place for philosophy, in my opinion.

I do believe that with some protection (crash-pads ,etc) even droppin' the bike in the garage or other type of mishap can have lighter repercusions on the fairings/bike itself..

I strongly disagree that a traffic accident for a rider for instance, is always his fault (meaning he made an error).

If a human being (a rider) can't look in front of him, watch the speedo, look side-ways & look in the mirrors, ALL IN THE SAME TIME means that he is MAKING A MISTAKE,then OK, I agree with you.
Being human is faulty.

Example: You're sitting at a traffic light. It's red. You're looking forward, you're looking sideways, and you're also checking the rear view mirror for some twat that could rear end you. You see a call aproaching behind you,coming to the stop, at very slow speed. What if the idiot, instead of finally braking & putting the car to a complete halt, accidentally speeds up, very little,but enough to give you a small bump & knock you off the bike?
Let's say this occurs when he's 3 metres away from you, behind. What sort of reflexes would you need to avoid that,not to mention that it would never cross your mind that he could possibly accelerate when he's 2-3 metres behind & almost coming to a stop.

You simply cannot convince me that for each accident, the victim is guilty as well. It's the same thing as saying that he's guilty the minute he steps on his bike..

I don't know exactly how that thin CF would look/fit, but it would serve the purpose.
As stated by yourself, it's much wiser to use soft stuff, which will dissipate the impact force much better than some rigid-bolt-on stuff.

Well... Lucky for me then, your opinion isn't a basis for rules any more than mine... Just a starting point for a discussion... And I happen to think this is an excellent place for philosophy... ;)

I agree, chrash protection can lessen the damage of a tip-over/drop... But they can just as well increase it... There wasa thread not too long ago when someone dropped his bike of the service stand and the crash protector was bent, made a dent in the frame and made the insurance co total the bike... Without the protector the damage would probably have been replacing fairings and not a total... But like I said, both options are valid...

As for the guilt part... Yeah, there are a few accidents that it doesn't apply to... Those involve the type you mentioned... Someone having a brainfart and hitting the accelerator instead of the brake just behind your rearwheel, or a drunk driver switching into oncoming traffic for no apparent reason...

But those are pretty rare in comparasion to all the other accidents... In all the other accidents there are a warning sign... The car behind you at the lights is coming a bit too fast, so move... The light being green doesn't automatically mean that the morons on the cross street isn't going to t-bone you, and so on...

And in all of those, the rider did make one or two miniscule errors that contributed to the accident, without exception... You can choose to believe otherwise, but in my opinion, if you accept it and start thinking from that viewpoint, you increase your chance of avoiding accidents...

In the example above, if that vehicle lurched about, or behaved in any other way erraticly before launching itself at you at the red light and you didn't get out of the way, then you made an error... In many, many cases there was a warning that we missed... Not always, but a lot of the times...

The reason I'm even discussing this, and not calling it "offtopic" is that I'd say it has some relevance... You can't really protect your bike from tip-overs or highspeed impacts... That would mean wrapping them in foam or something equally silly... What you can do is save the parts that are expensive to replace, and those that you can't replace but have to re-grow, ie your parts... So know this, and plan what type of damage you are protecting the bike and you against...

The rigid, non folding footpegs are a distinct example of this... They don't fold up, instead the leave some room for your foot to get out relatively unharmed... But they can cause an accident since they don't fold...

On my bike, I have delrin sliders on the fork, the swingarm and T-rex protectors, as well as the tips of the footpegs... Those are somewhat discrete but saves me a lot of money in potentially ground down parts...

nothing moral about my comment, I gave you a suggestion for several options including the most protective device I know of. You mocked it calling it 'retarded' I believe (for all you know I could be using a cage device like that). I think there is some growing up potential here, but suggest you just try to meet people half way. Its a very helpful friendly forum, but do some searching first, and if someone suggest something as an option don't mock it. And finally, not to be too P.C. but who uses the term retarded like that outside of teenagers? If you've had any personal experience with learning disabled it really hits a nerve when you throw it around like you do.

No! don't get the cheap knock off ones. I did and the slider snapped right off. The bolt stripped all the threads in the mount and ruined all kinds of my bodywork. I got the actuall T-Rex sliders now and I put a nut on the back of the mount to make sure the long bolt does pull out.

Here's the 905 cage I saw:

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...=frame+sliders

A few replies back you've made a statement, and I quote: "A traffic accident however means that you, me, who-ever is on the bike has made an error... That's fact, nothing else..."

I was only arguing that.
I never said that most of the accidents occur out of simple misfortune,but rather somebody's fault. But you can't ignore the fact that there are accidents which can't be avoided/predicted. And they are not as few as you'd wish/expect.

My example with the idiot behind, rear-ending you, is very precise, and it points to the situation where that persno didn't give out any warning/signs that he might rear-end you at the last second.

And even with a scenario where you catch a glimpse of an idiot coming in too fast in your rear mirror, 80% of situations you won't have enough time to put it in gear and move away. Or even if you do have it in gear, where do you go? in front, in cross-coming traffic? to the left (in collision with other vehicles who are coming your way?), to the right where? in a car near you? It's not rocket science. not to mention you have to think this in a split second, before that's exactly what you have, 1 or 2 seconds tops, before the idiot crashes into you.
It's not like you can see him alwasy 100 metres away,behind and you have time to roll out of his way doing a wheelie and saluting....

Now on topic:
A bike will never be safe, unless you keep it in the garage (and even there accidents DO happen,stupid ones especially)

I'm not with mounting extended bars & sh|t because I love the way the firestorm looks and I don't wanna transform it into some sort of R1150 GS looking thing, just for the sake of the fairings & etc.

I wanna make it as "lightCRASH-resistant" as possible with as little aesthetics intrusion as possible and with as little cash possible (because it wouldn't be WISE to spend a larger amount of money on making the bike like a tank, than it would cost to repair it, would it?)

I'm only aiming to protect the bike from sliding on the asphalt and minor falls (at small speeds).

If anything greater/serious would occur, the shape of the bike would be the last thing on anybody's mind, rather then the health of the rider.

Now for the retarded bit of the question: Where could one get one of those CF covers? or out of what other type of material/metal cand one be manufactured and how should it be glued/sticked to the clutch case. Having the dissipation of heat in mind,as well,as we don't wanna obstruct the cooling of the case, as well.

I'm not trying to be abrasive here, but I have a feeling that every scenario you present will have some sort of way to avoid it...

When I read defensive riding books and listen to experienced (alive) riders, they have addressed this scenario before, so here goes:

1) Always have your bike in gear- sometimes I don't but that's at 5am when there are zero cars in sight and I want to adjust my helmet or something.

2) When pulling up to a stoplight behind a car, align yourself in a way so that if you have to make a quick go, you can. I tend to line up on the left side of the car and give myself a couple of feet so it won't be uncomfortable to pull beside it or past it. Gives you a better view of what's in front of you too I've found. If I come to a stoplight and I'm in front, I usually give a few feet so that I can make a 90 degree turn either way without entering perpendicular traffic. It doesn't take that much space really...

3) As for having a split second to think, my opinion is that you have more. Just run through the steps: If a car is coming up, pay attention to it. If it's coming up really fast (50mph) you will probably notice that something isn't right sooner than 10 feet behind you. Cars don't just gun it until the last second to stop. Most people slow down. Same for if you're slowing down to turn with cars behind you- if they don't notice you, you can often tell. I'm always paranoid of a rear end b/c I hear horror stories all the time- A few on this forum. Sometimes drivers make mistakes, but if you plan for it an "oh shit" moment followed by a crash can often become just another day of riding. I've had more than one situation that later reflection made me realize that if I hadn't been alert I could have been in trouble.

That being said, we're all human and no one can get it right 100% of the time, I just like making my odds better and am always willing to listen to new techniques and tips.

If I see a car coming up behind me I tend to flash my brakelight at them so that they don't confuse it with the brakelight of the car in front of me.

I also like to do this when slowing down- click that brake lever switch a couple of times so they know something is going down with that two wheeled vehicle in front of them.

The amount of accidents without warning is a lot fewer than the others... Trust me on that one... But you make your own mind up...

As for the situation you described... I have been in that situation, so I know how it could end... The car coming up behind me had a drunk driver behind the wheel, and he was more or less passed out, coming in to fast, and it looked a bit unstable... Fairly light traffic, and I had the bike in gear, so I just went between the cars in front of me, the car ended up plowing into the car i had been standing behind... Thankfully I was far back enough to just punch it and get away... So I know how that works...

The answer is the same as above... eBay... That's where I bought mine, twice... It is applied with silicone sealant, and as far as I can tell it hasn't affected the bike in terms of heat... On the other side, I made a cut out for the bolts myself, so I can service the bike... Might decrease the protection, but good enough for my needs...

I don't know whether to laugh at some replies or feel misunderstood...

You people should realize that in THEORY is one thing,and real life with all the unforeseen details/surprises is another thing.

Having the bike in gear at EVERY STOP/TRAFFIC light is a bit overkill for me. I know it's probably a safe thing to do,but I'm also thinking of the clutch and I'm not a very mechanical/technical guy,but I think keeping the bike in gear at stops is abusing the clutch a bit.


Of course ,the chances of a car coming from behind at 100 mph are very slight, but that doesn't mean it's not possible,and I don't think somebody wants to argue with something like this as being totally impossible.

There are MANY scenarios where a car can surprise you from behind,without any notice/warning.
It doesn't take that much speed for it to surprise you and catch you off-guard. And by off-guard I mean : you looking into a different side of the traffic.

What if you get distracted by somebody passing by in front of you, a stupid chick, some drunk asshole,a idiot with a car coming too close to you from a cross-street, and in those 1-2 seconds you FORGET about the rear mirror, and then BAM,from behind. You don't have eyes in the back of your head, and you can't watch all directions at once,especially if a threat presents itself from the front/side etc.

I know where you are coming from, with the situations that you explained.
All I'm saying is that there are MANY situations which can't simply be avoided due to the way we are made, the way we think, the way we perceive things. We are human. We're not robots with motion detection sensors, or proximity sensors.

Perhaps a bike should be equipped with high tech sensor for both proximity and analyze the speed of incoming /outgoing traffic/objects and when it considers that an object is a thread, should zap the rider with a small voltage (because a simple flash LED warning wouldn't suffice).

Hope you understand my point of view as well.

World is full of clumsy/drunk/irresponsible/and all sorts of DRIVERS/RIDERS.
There are more and more cars/vehicles & threats on the road.

And a bike is more prone to crash than any other vehicle.

What might cost a small dent in the door of a car, might cost a fall or unbalance of a rider,causing him to loose the control of the bike & crash into something else..

In what way does you abuse the clutch by having the bike in gear at a stoplight?! Now you have to explain this for me, since I'm completely a mechanical/practical guy... so to me wierd ass guesswork without knowing makes no sense, at all...

Plus, theory vs practics... Yeah, I know something about that... Theory is you guessing... Practice is me, and several others on the forum, having tried the car up the ass scenario in real life... For me it was a "oh shit" moment followed by standing around waiting for the police... For others it was a bit more painful...

haha, man, just laugh or else life gets long real fast...

I don't think I misunderstood... I mean, a meteor could hit and you'd be toast and no amount of checking your mirrors will prevent that. Who knows, maybe someone would argue that if you kept up with your astrology you would have been out of the area at that time of day :)

I was actually just trying to help out- giving my two cents on making the situation you described a bit less dangerous. I can't guarantee that I won't die of a heart attack later on, but there are certainly things I can do to reduce the chances of it happening...

As far as the clutch thing, and I may be corrected on this, I only think that it's wearing on the plates if you're in the "friction zone". In other words, if it's all the way engaged or all the way disengaged you aren't doing any damage. It's the part that's in between that causes wear... wear that is designed to happen at that...

As I've said, i'm not that mechanical/technical regarding the clutch thing. It was only an assumption. So if you wanna hang me for that, go ahead.

I don't know what theory vs "practics" you are talking about.

The fact that you got rear ended by some twat doesn't make you a hero or something.

Everybody has accidents, yours doesn't make you any more special then the one sitting next to you.

I just picked the example with the car rear-ending a bike,just random.
I didn't know you got rear-ended. I hope I didn't touch any sensitive sides or bring back some bad memories. My bad. Take it like a man.

There are several other scenarios for accidents which can't be prevented in my opinion (but in yours, they can).

Perhaps you should have prevented that car from rear-ending you, if you're that good in theory here on the forum.

Let's just stick with the 'technical' advice regarding crash protection to VTR.

I don't wanna get into any other sort of discussions...

You should probably go back and read first, before jumping to conclusions...

One... I didn't, nor have I any intention to "hang you" for whatever you assume about the clutch... I prefer to point out that you in this case are misinformed... 7moore7's decription is pretty spot on...

Two... I didn't get rear ended... That was the point of my argument... I was however very close to being rear ended, and checking my mirrors at that stopsign and having the bike in gear and leaving myself an escape route saved me from that... Something I actually learned from discussions on this forum from others that wasn't as lucky... So I pass it on... If you listen or not is your choice...

And three... Nope, I'm not a hero... And no, you didn't hit a nerve or something... But your language and tone have been borderline rude on a few posts now, and getting worse the more agitated you get... So I think I'll take my leave before this escalates into name calling, I have given my info on how I have protected my bike and I have no interest in arguing with you...

I can hear it coming now.

I'm waiting for it.

It will come.

It appears that Insider is wearing out someone's patience. I can hear the word "SEARCH" coming.

Insider, you need to open up Google, and start searching. I sincerely doubt that you will get much more technical advice out of this group, especially Tweety now that you have directly insulted him.

Good luck finding those CF covers and whatever you were seeking.

Actually, I covered that in my first post... I gather that I might be somewhat predictable huh? :rotf: And nope, not insulted... Not even close... ;)

But I really have no more information to give, unless someone asks an intelligent question that fires of a few synapses...

Tweety , nobody's gonna call you names, rest assured.

If you find my language a bit rude, perhaps i got more on your sensitive side.
My bad, and I apologize for that.

Thanks for the info provided (to you & others who supplied me with tips & info).

An intelligent question lies in the 'mind' of the beholder, sort of speak..

It's a good thing I've managed to clear my confusion regarding the clutch.
For some unknown reason, I always thought that keeping the clutch engaged at stops would wear it off... I'm not very mechanical, but nor retarded (hopefully :) ).

That being said, \/ peace to everyone involved, and even if the topic seems 'consumed', if there are others who can contribute with any ideas...