99 SH pops out of 2nd gear into N
03-06-2006, 12:11 PM
#1
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Squid
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Commonwealth
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99 SH pops out of 2nd gear into N
Hey all-
Trying to decide how to tackle this problem. Would apprecite any advice
My 99 SH pops out of 2nd into N pretty bad now. It seems to have always done it a little but I adjusted teh shifter toe lever down so it'd be more comfortable for my daily riding and now it pops out alot alot. Doesn't seem related to engine speed or throttle position.
I'm thinking it might be a clutch issue since the bike will jerk forward if I try to start it in 1st even with the pulled clutch in when cold. Even when hot the clutch never seems to fully disengage but the fluid level is correct, the fluid color appears good, and there doesn't seem to be much adjustment anyhow...
Thanks in advance.
Trying to decide how to tackle this problem. Would apprecite any advice
My 99 SH pops out of 2nd into N pretty bad now. It seems to have always done it a little but I adjusted teh shifter toe lever down so it'd be more comfortable for my daily riding and now it pops out alot alot. Doesn't seem related to engine speed or throttle position.
I'm thinking it might be a clutch issue since the bike will jerk forward if I try to start it in 1st even with the pulled clutch in when cold. Even when hot the clutch never seems to fully disengage but the fluid level is correct, the fluid color appears good, and there doesn't seem to be much adjustment anyhow...
Thanks in advance.
03-06-2006, 01:21 PM
#2
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Re: 99 SH pops out of 2nd gear into N
popping into neutral could be a gear problem maybe wore out or broke but it sounds like you do have a problem with the clutch also does it slip at all under acceleration?
03-06-2006, 01:51 PM
#3
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Squid
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Does not slip at all under acceleration. I believe the clutch sticks too much if anything. Once the oil is hot the clutch plates will seperate, but the seem to still when it's cold. My BMW has a hydraulic clutch and does not do this, but it's a dry clutch so maybe that makes it different...
03-06-2006, 05:05 PM
#4
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If jschmidt were here, oh wait he is here, he'll probably tell you that you have a bent 1-2 shift fork. He's probably right. Riding like that will probably round off the 2nd gear dogs and drums, so don't ignore it.
The clutch problem could be caused by air in the clutch line. Compressing the air would prevent full actuation of the clutch.
The clutch problem could be caused by air in the clutch line. Compressing the air would prevent full actuation of the clutch.
03-07-2006, 09:41 AM
#6
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Squid
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Re: 99 SH pops out of 2nd gear into N
The first thing I would try is to adjust the shift lever up since when you adjusted it down it pops out more. If adjusting it up helps with the problem it might give you a clue to the solution of the real problem.
"but I adjusted teh shifter toe lever down so it'd be more comfortable for my daily riding and now it pops out alot alot"
"but I adjusted teh shifter toe lever down so it'd be more comfortable for my daily riding and now it pops out alot alot"
03-07-2006, 10:07 AM
#7
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Squid
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The air in the clutch line makes good sense. The guy I got the bike from said he had just replaced the clutch recently, maybe it wasn't bled well. I'll try that this weekend.
So you're saying if adjusting the shift pedal down made it worse it's likely a bent shift fork? I guess I don't follow the reasoning.
Originally the pedal was set so high it was like a brake pedal. The drum moves the same amount the rod is just longer now isn't it?
I have done a few top end overhauls on Kawi's and Suzu's but I've never split a case on anything bigger than a lawnmower.
What am I getting into?
Originally the pedal was set so high it was like a brake pedal. The drum moves the same amount the rod is just longer now isn't it?
I have done a few top end overhauls on Kawi's and Suzu's but I've never split a case on anything bigger than a lawnmower.
What am I getting into?
03-07-2006, 11:25 AM
#8
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I think what Les is saying is that you if changed the shift lever position and it started to pop out of gear, it could be caused by something to do with changing the lever position. He's not saying it caused a bent shift fork.
If the lever was too high before, it may have caused you to misshift, which could cause a bent shift fork.
Get a VTR1000F service manual before you do anything. Then you'll know what you are getting into. You'll need frame locknut wrenches, a flywheel puller, an impact wrench, a good selection of hand tools and good mechanical skills. Some of the other special tools are unnecessary with some ingenuity and guidance.
Some of us can give you some pointers if you decide ot do it. Don't do it if it's over your head.
You'll also need a full set of gaskets and seals and a tube of Hondabond.
You may be able to examine the shifting engagement by removing the oilpan. the shift mechanixm is visible with the pan removed.
If the lever was too high before, it may have caused you to misshift, which could cause a bent shift fork.
Get a VTR1000F service manual before you do anything. Then you'll know what you are getting into. You'll need frame locknut wrenches, a flywheel puller, an impact wrench, a good selection of hand tools and good mechanical skills. Some of the other special tools are unnecessary with some ingenuity and guidance.
Some of us can give you some pointers if you decide ot do it. Don't do it if it's over your head.
You'll also need a full set of gaskets and seals and a tube of Hondabond.
You may be able to examine the shifting engagement by removing the oilpan. the shift mechanixm is visible with the pan removed.
03-07-2006, 11:50 AM
#9
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 312
popping out of gear is a problem because the very process damages the transmission (once it starts it usually just gets worse); the root cause is typically rounded engagement dogs; the best fix is undercutting said dogs and their engagement slots. Undercutting, which I have done to one of my bikes, is a lot of work as the transmission must come out and be sent to a specialist. But if the dogs are too far gone replacement is the only option. This is a must do mod for drag racing and a very common one for road racing. I would say at this point you trans will only get worse (I have had the same issue with bikes in the past) and that you probably have one or perhaps all of the following mechanical problems:
• Bent shift forks
• Rounded shift dogs
• Damaged shift drum
I am sorry to say this but it won't fix itself and no adjustment will help. I also would examine and if needed replace your clutch. JIM
03-08-2006, 05:49 AM
#10
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Squid
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Really appreciate all the good information. I'll get the tear down manual and see what's involved.
I guess I'll have to decide if it's worth pursuing or if I should just part out the bike.
It's getting so I don't want to buy used bikes, seems like transmission problems are hard to find before the sale.
Thanks again
I guess I'll have to decide if it's worth pursuing or if I should just part out the bike.
It's getting so I don't want to buy used bikes, seems like transmission problems are hard to find before the sale.
Thanks again
03-08-2006, 06:31 AM
#11
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Re: 99 SH pops out of 2nd gear into N
I would defiantly repair the bike. You have to drop the engine and split the cases but you do not have to disassemble the top end. You should plan on replacing the shift fork that actuates the first to second shift. I would send the transmissions shafts to Fast by Gast they are top knoch and the cost is minimal for undercutting two gears. If the parts are beyond repair they will be best equipped to determine this; you simply will have to get two new gears or they can do it for you. I would also upgrad the shift mechanism with a Factory spring, detent arm and star wheel. I would also replace the clutch as a matter of course. The whole job will not cost that much and a trans set up with these mods will shift like Gods own superbike, in other words better that new.
[web:eddd1c489b]http://www.fastbygast.com/Catagories/Products/Transmissions.asp[/web:eddd1c489b]
[Factory shift kit
[web:eddd1c489b]http://www.fastbygast.com/Catagories/Products/Transmissions.asp[/web:eddd1c489b]
[Factory shift kit
03-08-2006, 08:24 AM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Good advice! I never felt the need to spend money on my transmission. But since yours will probably need some amount of repair, that sounds like a good way to go.
Get set up with a workbench and fabricate a cradle to hold the engine upside down.
You may find it easier to remove the flywheel and clutch with the engine in the frame because it won't move around when you're working on it. Make cleanliness a top priority! I have a bunch of plastic tubs and keep the parts in them with the lid on.
You might want to get some shims for the main and countershafts to adjust endplay on the gears.
Get set up with a workbench and fabricate a cradle to hold the engine upside down.
You may find it easier to remove the flywheel and clutch with the engine in the frame because it won't move around when you're working on it. Make cleanliness a top priority! I have a bunch of plastic tubs and keep the parts in them with the lid on.
You might want to get some shims for the main and countershafts to adjust endplay on the gears.
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