Thanks. Hopefully I can leverage it into cash. However, I'm discovering
that employers care less about what degree you hold and more about your
experience.

The fact that I can code my *** off is apparently not good enough for some
of them.

Okay, enough whining.

david in mn

> Shaggie

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TELL me about it! I'm finding that 5+ years of Delphi don't mean **** -
they're all looking for experience with Visual BASIC (ACK! PHT!).
Getting what I deserve for making the right technical choice in '96.

Woof

David Littau wrote:
> Thanks. Hopefully I can leverage it into cash. However, I'm discovering
> that employers care less about what degree you hold and more about your
> experience.
>
> The fact that I can code my *** off is apparently not good enough for some
> of them.
>
> Okay, enough whining.
>
> david in mn
>
>
>>Shaggie
--
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to hang their heads out of car windows.

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>>>>> "DrDave" == David Littau <littau@cs.umn.edu> writes:

DrDave> I don't know how to fight through the personnel barrier
DrDave> yet. They have their checklists that you have to meet.

I just got my JD a couple of years ago, after 17 years electrical
engineering (& CS), including 8 in Japan, where I learned to speak
Japanese. The whole time I was in school, it was "oh, they're gonna
be fighting on your doorstep to make you an offer. You're _so_ _made_
for IP." Etc. After graduation...nothing. I worked for a FOAF at a
small plaintiffs' firm and got to do a lot of stuff that your average
new lawyer doesn't see for years, but wasn't making ends meet.
Finally got a patent gig and it's going well, but I have a stack of
rejections literally 2 inches thick. "While your qualifications are
impressive, we are unable to offer you a position at this time."

In law, it's all about where you went to school; your experience don't
mean ****. More generally, corporate America is geared up to run on
the mewling idiots the schools turn out. It doesn't matter whether
you can think (program, litigate, write, screw nuts onto bolts) or
not; the business model assumes you can't, and has factored in the
time it'll take to teach you. So ability scarcely factors into hiring
decisions. You get hired if there happens to be some personal
connection (same school, same hobby, same last name, whatever) and
somebody likes you a little more than the competition. Because, let's
face it, there's no shortage of applicants for every job.

Good luck, just keep writing those letters.

d.


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Preachin' to da choir, Doc!

Woof

David Littau wrote:
>>TELL me about it! I'm finding that 5+ years of Delphi don't mean **** -
>>they're all looking for experience with Visual BASIC (ACK! PHT!).
>>Getting what I deserve for making the right technical choice in '96.
>
>
> Okay, let me geek out for a moment.
>
> Oh. MY. GOD.
>
> Visual Basic? You can do that if you can program at all. Give me a week
> and I will be better than people who've used it for years. I have a
> friend whose wife was given a job in V.B. even though she couldn't program
> her way out of a paper bag, because she had used it in the past.
>
> She didn't even have a CS degree. And she pulled down over 70K a year,
> and that was over 4 years ago.
>
> I never learned the language. I figured out non-visual basic by process
> of elimination when helping out my older sister when getting her computer
> certification. I would write the programs in fortran and then translate
> them to basic.
>
> I don't know how to fight through the personnel barrier yet. They have
> their checklists that you have to meet. I think I'm probably screwed
> royally, since when I am asked about VB, VC++, etc., I have to say I know
> how to program and can learn any language they could want me to in two
> weeks minimum, four weeks maximum.
>
> I know Fortran, C, and C++, on unix environment. That doesn't get you as
> far as it used to.
>
> david in mn
--
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to hang their heads out of car windows.

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It's possible that on 3/13/05 7:49 AM, David Littau at littau@cs.umn.edu
hurled this into the void...

> Visual Basic? You can do that if you can program at all. Give me a week
> and I will be better than people who've used it for years. I have a
> friend whose wife was given a job in V.B. even though she couldn't program
> her way out of a paper bag, because she had used it in the past.
>
> She didn't even have a CS degree. And she pulled down over 70K a year,
> and that was over 4 years ago.

Was that at Vigniette?

> I know Fortran, C, and C++, on unix environment. That doesn't get you as
> far as it used to.

It would get you way far at Apple...but you knew I was going to say that,
didn't you :-)


Congrats,

Daryl





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