Yet another fork swap
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From: Fulton, MO
Started the fork swap last night. Worked up until about 2am this morning on it. Will have some pics later today if/when I finish. I don't think the 1000RR clip-ons are going to work. Just testing the left one has controls hitting the guages - no adjusting around it either. 
Everything else went pretty smoothly.
Getting the stock lower race off the 929 triple was lots of fun....NOT! I ended up Dremeling a slot in it so I could get a drift on it to get it to move. Thanks to Racetech who always gives way too much aluminum tubing with their springs. I used it to install the new All-***** tapered race/bearing by essentially making a big spacer out of the tubing and some washers. I installed the top nut and started cranking down on it. Had to add more washers as the race/bearing moved down but it worked perfectly.
I moved the radiators back much as others have done by using small brackets. I moved both of them back 0.8".
Grinding the stops was a PITA. I ended up doing a combination of grinding and then added a half of a stick-on wheel weight to each side.
I may be able to use stock 1000RR wheel spacers. I'll pull them off the RR tomorrow and see if they work.
More to come later....
Oh, the fender fits great!
Everything else went pretty smoothly.Getting the stock lower race off the 929 triple was lots of fun....NOT! I ended up Dremeling a slot in it so I could get a drift on it to get it to move. Thanks to Racetech who always gives way too much aluminum tubing with their springs. I used it to install the new All-***** tapered race/bearing by essentially making a big spacer out of the tubing and some washers. I installed the top nut and started cranking down on it. Had to add more washers as the race/bearing moved down but it worked perfectly.
I moved the radiators back much as others have done by using small brackets. I moved both of them back 0.8".
Grinding the stops was a PITA. I ended up doing a combination of grinding and then added a half of a stick-on wheel weight to each side.
I may be able to use stock 1000RR wheel spacers. I'll pull them off the RR tomorrow and see if they work.
More to come later....
Oh, the fender fits great!
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SuperBike
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The woman who lives above my garage would kill me if I worked until 2 in the morning. If you can swing it, It’d be great to get a photo of the stops ground down. Thanks.
Good news on the fender too.
Good news on the fender too.
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Started the fork swap last night. Worked up until about 2am this morning on it. Will have some pics later today if/when I finish. I don't think the 1000RR clip-ons are going to work. Just testing the left one has controls hitting the guages - no adjusting around it either. Everything else went pretty smoothly.
Getting the stock lower race off the 929 triple was lots of fun....NOT! I ended up Dremeling a slot in it so I could get a drift on it to get it to move. Thanks to Racetech who always gives way too much aluminum tubing with their springs. I used it to install the new All-***** tapered race/bearing by essentially making a big spacer out of the tubing and some washers. I installed the top nut and started cranking down on it. Had to add more washers as the race/bearing moved down but it worked perfectly.
I moved the radiators back much as others have done by using small brackets. I moved both of them back 0.8".
Grinding the stops was a PITA. I ended up doing a combination of grinding and then added a half of a stick-on wheel weight to each side.
I may be able to use stock 1000RR wheel spacers. I'll pull them off the RR tomorrow and see if they work.
More to come later....
Oh, the fender fits great!
Everything else went pretty smoothly.Getting the stock lower race off the 929 triple was lots of fun....NOT! I ended up Dremeling a slot in it so I could get a drift on it to get it to move. Thanks to Racetech who always gives way too much aluminum tubing with their springs. I used it to install the new All-***** tapered race/bearing by essentially making a big spacer out of the tubing and some washers. I installed the top nut and started cranking down on it. Had to add more washers as the race/bearing moved down but it worked perfectly.
I moved the radiators back much as others have done by using small brackets. I moved both of them back 0.8".
Grinding the stops was a PITA. I ended up doing a combination of grinding and then added a half of a stick-on wheel weight to each side.
I may be able to use stock 1000RR wheel spacers. I'll pull them off the RR tomorrow and see if they work.
More to come later....
Oh, the fender fits great!
Not a big deal perhaps, BUT, the important point that needs to be mentioned here is that I could not get the lock to work with the same thickness washers on each "side" of the cylinder lock assembly. Yeah, I needed different thicknesses for eachside. Not much, but the 0.015" made all the difference in the world. One side would lock, but not the other. Always ALWAYS did this untill I recognized the pattern and tried it. Voila!
Anyway, not sure if this will be an issues for you or not, but if it's something you (or anyone else) is having an issue with this then keep in mind that sometimes things should not alway be symmetrical (yeah, I hate typing that, nevermind living with it! LOL!).
HTH and ..... pics.
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Slim,
Thanks for the info. Yeah, that was an issue but it was overcome with a couple of thick washers between the lock and the upper triple. Works like a champ now. Took about a minute to figure out and another 10 to get the two stupid bolts out and back in. This project has been plagued by lots of little things like that. Now the big one is the lack of clearance with the clip-ons. I knew it wouldn't work but I had to try it with 1000RR bars anyway.
Here's a few pics. I'll get a pic up of the new stopper shape tomorrow or the next day.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, that was an issue but it was overcome with a couple of thick washers between the lock and the upper triple. Works like a champ now. Took about a minute to figure out and another 10 to get the two stupid bolts out and back in. This project has been plagued by lots of little things like that. Now the big one is the lack of clearance with the clip-ons. I knew it wouldn't work but I had to try it with 1000RR bars anyway.
Here's a few pics. I'll get a pic up of the new stopper shape tomorrow or the next day.
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...and the really CRAPPY part of the whole thing.... Notice the clearance between the fairing and the return throttle cable bracket. And this is with the bars straight.
Notice the clearance between the fairing and the return throttle cable bracket. And this is with the bars straight.
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Oh yeah, having a stock (well, sorta 
) 1000RR was really handy in measuring fork distances, etc. The stock 1000RR with wheel off has 423mm as the distance between the outside of the forks. The VTR with 929 triples and 1000RR forks has 421mm. This means that I can use stock 1000RR spacers and just shave 1mm off each one. This will work out swimmingly! The spacers, brand new from ServiceHonda, are less than $10. Finally, a decent price on an OEM part!
) 1000RR was really handy in measuring fork distances, etc. The stock 1000RR with wheel off has 423mm as the distance between the outside of the forks. The VTR with 929 triples and 1000RR forks has 421mm. This means that I can use stock 1000RR spacers and just shave 1mm off each one. This will work out swimmingly! The spacers, brand new from ServiceHonda, are less than $10. Finally, a decent price on an OEM part!
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Anyway ..... what about a conversion to run a single throttle cable?
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Nah, I like the safety of both cables. The other nice thing about having the 1000RR that I forgot to mention is that I was able to cannibalize parts like caliper collars, caliper bolts, and wheel spacers off of it! HA! So now I have TWO bikes that I can't ride...even if the weather was nice, which it's not.
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Nah, I like the safety of both cables. The other nice thing about having the 1000RR that I forgot to mention is that I was able to cannibalize parts like caliper collars, caliper bolts, and wheel spacers off of it! HA! So now I have TWO bikes that I can't ride...even if the weather was nice, which it's not.
Two unrideable bikes - sadly, I can relate. Waiting for a chain for one bike and CCTs for the other. Weather is **** right now, but I don't care. I still want them READY to go!
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Yeah, the 1000RR forks are 702mm long. The VTR forks are 777mm long. Difference of 75mm. Now, the gull wing lowers the forks about 20mm, and since the clipons are now under the triple that accounts for another 52mm. So I'm only losing about 5mm overall. The bike's stance looks the same.
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The safety is that the throttle can be pulled shut if something were to happen...like the grip gets pushed towards the controls and creates friction. Also, I have Throttlemeisters on the bike and they intentionally create friction to hold the throttle, yet the throttle can still be operated because the other cable pulls the throttle shut.
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I think these shall work!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=130162349055
And ya' can't beat the price!!
These are discontinued but still have parts support. I called ScaryFast about them.
http://www.spiderwebmanagements.com/scaryfast/why.html
Rubber mounted - cool! Maybe they will quell some of them V-twin vibes. If I don't like the response I have some Helis coming too. IMO these will work better tho.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=130162349055
And ya' can't beat the price!!
These are discontinued but still have parts support. I called ScaryFast about them.
http://www.spiderwebmanagements.com/scaryfast/why.html
Rubber mounted - cool! Maybe they will quell some of them V-twin vibes. If I don't like the response I have some Helis coming too. IMO these will work better tho.
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Get a set of TL-1000 helibars and you will be so happy! and if you can find one use a RC-51 upper triple That is the combo that I have on my swap right now and it works really well.
Dennis
Dennis
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I got the Rbars mounted. These things are very nice quality. Good craftmanship. Don't like the rubber mounting system though. No matter what I did, or how tight I tightened the bars the right one would rotate in the rubber mount. This threw off the clearance of the throttle cable hard lines and something would start hitting at either full lock. I ended up pulling the rubber pieces and just mounting them without, which still works. I may try cutting the rubber mounts so that they squish less when tightened but still have the end caps tighten up hard against the post as they are now. I'll have to take pics for you guys to understand this system but I'm pretty tired and will do that tomorrow.
For now she's done. The bars are definitely wider. Should be fun with more leverage - maybe almost hooligan-like! I still have a set of 954 Helis on the way that I may try. I have very little clearance on the right side with the brake lever against the fairing "ear" at full lock left, and the throttle hard lines are very close to the fairing at full lock right. They each have maybe 1/8"...maybe! I actually had to take a Dremel to the brake lever to gain another 1/8-3/16" of clearance on full lock left.
Tomorrow is supposed to be decent enough to ride with a small chance for rain. I'll get out and start getting it tuned for my weight and style of riding. Will report back tomorrow with pics and first impressions. Supposed to go on a spirited ride Sunday with some buds so that'll be a good opportunity to get dialed in as well.
For now she's done. The bars are definitely wider. Should be fun with more leverage - maybe almost hooligan-like!
I still have a set of 954 Helis on the way that I may try. I have very little clearance on the right side with the brake lever against the fairing "ear" at full lock left, and the throttle hard lines are very close to the fairing at full lock right. They each have maybe 1/8"...maybe! I actually had to take a Dremel to the brake lever to gain another 1/8-3/16" of clearance on full lock left.Tomorrow is supposed to be decent enough to ride with a small chance for rain. I'll get out and start getting it tuned for my weight and style of riding. Will report back tomorrow with pics and first impressions. Supposed to go on a spirited ride Sunday with some buds so that'll be a good opportunity to get dialed in as well.
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SuperBike
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I'm sure this works well for RC51 forks, but 954 or 1000RR forks are shorter because they're designed for the dropped (gull wing) upper triple. Perhaps the perfect solution would be to use RC forks with 954 triples and mount the bars above the top triple. I'm sure it's been done, but that's another can of worms.
Last edited by killer5280; Oct 20, 2007 at 01:32 AM.
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I think you might be right. would like to hear from others as I'm sure some have done it. Ihave about 17mm of fork showing using rcforks and triples - which puts ride height about perfect for me (equivalent of raising the stock forks 5-10mm or so, but turn in, midturn and clearance are just right for my riding. With a gull wing top triple tough, I think I'd have enough room to put stock clipons above the triple which woudl be simpler than the convertibars solution I'm using now. Anyone done this? The convertibars sounds like the R-bars that you are using now greg except for the rubber mounting and aside from being bulky they work well for me.
With 954 forks pushed up to meet the RC upper triple the front ride height would have to be quite a bit lower than stock since the 954 forks are already shorter than the stock Hawk forks. I haven't measured it, but I would guess that the difference between stock and 954 or 1000RR forks used with an RC51 triple would be nearly two inches. Seems a bit much to me. Mine turns very quickly and the front ride height is only about a half inch lower than stock.
I'm sure this works well for RC51 forks, but 954 or 1000RR forks are shorter because they're designed for the dropped (gull wing) upper triple. Perhaps the perfect solution would be to use RC forks with 954 triples and mount the bars above the top triple. I'm sure it's been done, but that's another can of worms.
I'm sure this works well for RC51 forks, but 954 or 1000RR forks are shorter because they're designed for the dropped (gull wing) upper triple. Perhaps the perfect solution would be to use RC forks with 954 triples and mount the bars above the top triple. I'm sure it's been done, but that's another can of worms.
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Greg...while looking for parts to repair my bent front....I'm finding good deals on 954RR front end set ups. Do you know if the 954RR front wheel is the same size? width? weight?
I'm wondering about doing the swap...if I can make it happen for less than 4-500 after selling my newly rebuilt, RT'd, PPtired, Coerce braced and RC calipered "stocker"...is it really worth it?
I'm wondering about doing the swap...if I can make it happen for less than 4-500 after selling my newly rebuilt, RT'd, PPtired, Coerce braced and RC calipered "stocker"...is it really worth it?
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You would want to keep the tire and RC calipers. Then start collecting the parts. I am in the process of doing the conversion myself. I am still in need of a front wheel, fender, and clip-ons. My understanding is that you will need the wheel to mount the rotors, which are much large than the VTRs, and with the caliper mounts of the CBR front end you need to be able to contact the rotors.
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If you are using 929/954 forks AND triple then the 929/954 wheel, axle, and spacers is what you need....or any other wheel that is the same as the 929/954, to which I can't speak.
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Update:
I spent an entire day riding yesterday, and most of the day Saturday. Now that I've got a few hundred miles on the forks I can report my findings:
Straight line Stability - about 50% better. I can definitely tell a difference. The bike is much more controlled with significantly less flex.
Transition Stability - about 50% better. There is significantly less winding up of the frame and forks when transitioning hard from full lean to opposite full lean. Okay, well not "full" lean, but within the limits of the street. I had a fork brace on the stock forks and I weigh about 225#, so that's what I'm comparing to.
Cornering Stability - this is the area where I was hoping I'd have more success. I still feel the flex, though now it feels like it's coming from either the middle or the rear of the bike. On corners with bumps the bike will wiggle a bit. The 1000RR and 600RR will not. They just track over bumps.
Bump Compliance - Not as compliant as VTR forks with compression Gold valves and springs, as expected
Bump Control - MUCH better than VTR forks with GV and springs.
Brake Dive - MUCH better...Very well controlled feedback on maximum braking
and speaking of Braking - Oh my f*cking G*D!!! Finally! Braking that meets my expectations on this bike. More brakes than power now, not the other way around. This, coming from Galfer Waves, Galfer HH pads, SS lines, and 929 master.
Ergonomics - Not happy with the current bar position with the R-bars. I will try to tweak them a bit more but I feel they are too wide, too far forward, and too low. I have lost significant amounts of lever adjustability and clearance between tank and fairings. There has to be a better solution, and 929 helis are not the answer. They are still too low. I think the only answer is the TL Helibars. I will still keep the R-bars to try on the 1000RR though.
I spent an entire day riding yesterday, and most of the day Saturday. Now that I've got a few hundred miles on the forks I can report my findings:
Straight line Stability - about 50% better. I can definitely tell a difference. The bike is much more controlled with significantly less flex.
Transition Stability - about 50% better. There is significantly less winding up of the frame and forks when transitioning hard from full lean to opposite full lean. Okay, well not "full" lean, but within the limits of the street. I had a fork brace on the stock forks and I weigh about 225#, so that's what I'm comparing to.
Cornering Stability - this is the area where I was hoping I'd have more success. I still feel the flex, though now it feels like it's coming from either the middle or the rear of the bike. On corners with bumps the bike will wiggle a bit. The 1000RR and 600RR will not. They just track over bumps.
Bump Compliance - Not as compliant as VTR forks with compression Gold valves and springs, as expected
Bump Control - MUCH better than VTR forks with GV and springs.
Brake Dive - MUCH better...Very well controlled feedback on maximum braking
and speaking of Braking - Oh my f*cking G*D!!! Finally! Braking that meets my expectations on this bike. More brakes than power now, not the other way around. This, coming from Galfer Waves, Galfer HH pads, SS lines, and 929 master.
Ergonomics - Not happy with the current bar position with the R-bars. I will try to tweak them a bit more but I feel they are too wide, too far forward, and too low. I have lost significant amounts of lever adjustability and clearance between tank and fairings. There has to be a better solution, and 929 helis are not the answer. They are still too low. I think the only answer is the TL Helibars. I will still keep the R-bars to try on the 1000RR though.
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2007
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Greg, you may just have to take any Helis you have and go down to your favorite welder. He can cut the helis and weld in longer rises or change the angle or both and get you right where you want to be. Shouldn't take more than 1/2 an hour...50bux or so.
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SuperSport
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 818
From: Thornwood, NY
I agree with Redman....
Heli's are steel.. so you shouldn't have to worry about welding...
I'd also recommend looking at Ducati 900ss Helis... that's what I'm using and they have ALOT of rise... they will make the bars wide, and high.
I have them 13mm below the RC triple, and they line up almost exactley where on VFR bars did on the stock front end.
J.
Heli's are steel.. so you shouldn't have to worry about welding...
I'd also recommend looking at Ducati 900ss Helis... that's what I'm using and they have ALOT of rise... they will make the bars wide, and high.
I have them 13mm below the RC triple, and they line up almost exactley where on VFR bars did on the stock front end.
J.
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SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,806
From: Atlanta, GA
Update:
I spent an entire day riding yesterday, and most of the day Saturday. Now that I've got a few hundred miles on the forks I can report my findings:
Straight line Stability - about 50% better. I can definitely tell a difference. The bike is much more controlled with significantly less flex.
Transition Stability - about 50% better. There is significantly less winding up of the frame and forks when transitioning hard from full lean to opposite full lean. Okay, well not "full" lean, but within the limits of the street. I had a fork brace on the stock forks and I weigh about 225#, so that's what I'm comparing to.
Cornering Stability - this is the area where I was hoping I'd have more success. I still feel the flex, though now it feels like it's coming from either the middle or the rear of the bike. On corners with bumps the bike will wiggle a bit. The 1000RR and 600RR will not. They just track over bumps.
Bump Compliance - Not as compliant as VTR forks with compression Gold valves and springs, as expected
Bump Control - MUCH better than VTR forks with GV and springs.
Brake Dive - MUCH better...Very well controlled feedback on maximum braking
and speaking of Braking - Oh my f*cking G*D!!! Finally! Braking that meets my expectations on this bike. More brakes than power now, not the other way around. This, coming from Galfer Waves, Galfer HH pads, SS lines, and 929 master.
Ergonomics - Not happy with the current bar position with the R-bars. I will try to tweak them a bit more but I feel they are too wide, too far forward, and too low. I have lost significant amounts of lever adjustability and clearance between tank and fairings. There has to be a better solution, and 929 helis are not the answer. They are still too low. I think the only answer is the TL Helibars. I will still keep the R-bars to try on the 1000RR though.
I spent an entire day riding yesterday, and most of the day Saturday. Now that I've got a few hundred miles on the forks I can report my findings:
Straight line Stability - about 50% better. I can definitely tell a difference. The bike is much more controlled with significantly less flex.
Transition Stability - about 50% better. There is significantly less winding up of the frame and forks when transitioning hard from full lean to opposite full lean. Okay, well not "full" lean, but within the limits of the street. I had a fork brace on the stock forks and I weigh about 225#, so that's what I'm comparing to.
Cornering Stability - this is the area where I was hoping I'd have more success. I still feel the flex, though now it feels like it's coming from either the middle or the rear of the bike. On corners with bumps the bike will wiggle a bit. The 1000RR and 600RR will not. They just track over bumps.
Bump Compliance - Not as compliant as VTR forks with compression Gold valves and springs, as expected
Bump Control - MUCH better than VTR forks with GV and springs.
Brake Dive - MUCH better...Very well controlled feedback on maximum braking
and speaking of Braking - Oh my f*cking G*D!!! Finally! Braking that meets my expectations on this bike. More brakes than power now, not the other way around. This, coming from Galfer Waves, Galfer HH pads, SS lines, and 929 master.
Ergonomics - Not happy with the current bar position with the R-bars. I will try to tweak them a bit more but I feel they are too wide, too far forward, and too low. I have lost significant amounts of lever adjustability and clearance between tank and fairings. There has to be a better solution, and 929 helis are not the answer. They are still too low. I think the only answer is the TL Helibars. I will still keep the R-bars to try on the 1000RR though.
