PHxS

I've been away from the conversation for long enough. I do plan on converting to fuel injection, but later than I had planned. I just started a business on the side making vinyl graphics.

They say you have to spend money to make money, might as well give it a try.

Once I get settled, i'll offer my services here. In the meantime, i'm low on cash as far as the toys are concerned. Which means i've pushed my plans for the conversion out a bit.

I've already picked up some throttle bodies from a Suzuki TL1000R and will be designing the brackets to reposition them to the intake port (the TLR throttle bodies sit more vertical than the Hawk carbs). I figured the setup would be ideal since people have made some nice power from those engines.

I have been reading everything I can on the different combinations of crank and cam position sensors as well as their corresponding wheels all relating to the type of spark. I haven't gotten to figuring how i'm going to run the injectors (two for each cylinder). I forgot to measure the injector resistance today, argh!

I'm lining up everything and making a budget soon. Then i'll see everything in a much clearer fashion than what is going around in my head. Depending on how well the vinyl designing goes, I might just try to wrangle myself some varadero parts.

Nights,
Ryan B.

Big Don

I wish you the best of luck in your new endeavor, will look forward to ordering some VTR1000RR vinyl for the bike. If you are going to use TL1000 parts why not go with the sane parts from an RC51, or an SV1000. Hope to see something up and running. If you can get it to work right have you thought about packaging the parts i for one would be a complete FI conversation for my bike.

PHxS

I went with the TL1000R throttle bodies because I was able to get them complete for $35 shipped to my door. The prevalence of parts for them is a bit better. The SV1000 is just a sidestep of the TL1000, meaning the parts are about the same.

Thanks for the good wishes and i'll try to come up with some nice designs for us Hawk owners. Might think about making some SuperChicken vinyl for the fairings.

Ryan B.

fuzzuki

You'll also have to run a fuel pump..............NO?

PHxS

That will not be a problem. I've got the idea set on that part, but just need to work out some little details.

Ryan B.

inderocker

easily solved with a vfr fuel tank and fuel pump.

gboezio

I have done the fuel injection maths since I wanted to turbo the SH, but I may have to sell it because the licensing fees that went 400 % for sport bikes (yes I fought hours on the phone bragging the sport touring thing to no avail), so I dropped the project.

Using Microsquirt would be pretty straight forward, it support odd firing with a single crank trigger in wasted spark mode(witch is the stock setup), there is two outputs the second can be configured with an offset angle from the first, 90 or 270° in this case. If a second sensor can be placed in a head cover to catch a cam lobe, it could be used as a cam sync and single spark. It is possible to fit a return line in stock tank but it needs welding and a good tank cleaning, water and argon or exhaust filling, then bronze can be used to weld a return nipple, but as mentioned the VFR tank is a heck of a good deal with available parts.

Dead stock carbs definitely can be used as TB's since they have TPS, some fuel rail can be made to support both injectors (or four it takes big injectors for a VTR) right over the velocity stacks, slides can be removed, unused galleries plugged, even the stock airbox could be used this way. Otherwise real TB's can be modified but the linkage may be a bit of a PITA, but will yield the same end result, as an added bonus there will be no slide hole on the TB throat.

The vacuum source for the MAP can be taken where we sync the TB's but IMO the absolute best would be to duplicate the Motronic setup by using a MAF sensor connected to the airbox, but the seal would need to be perfect, no leaks at all !!! MS support MAF based systems on the latest codes, on a NA setup this would yeild the best control over AF. MAP based (speed density algorithms) are better used with a plenum and single TB since the MAP signal is cleaner, the post throttle signal on a independent TB is pulsating and far from a clean signal, it works, but there is better, japanese bikes use this system with good results tough.

An exhaust feedback can be used all the time fine tune the mix, regular O2 may be of some use for cruising and close to stoic riding, but for WOT or high load conditions, where a richer mix need to be used, a wideband is needed, at least for tuning, or even all the time (nice with a AFR gauge)
This is a fun project, I'll be happy to help if needed.
This is just food for thought and something to type while I sip my coffee this morning.

Dave in NY

The Varadero is tuned differently from the Superhawk/Firestorm, too, so if you were able to adapt the FI to a 'hawk you'd have to get a power commander or similar and re-tune the FI system. Unless you want to limit yourself to 80 hp or so? -And I'm not up on the ease of doing that, or even if you could duplicate the Superhawk power band using the Varadero FI.

Still, it sounds like it might be a fun project!

PHxS

Dave: I would love to use varadero parts, but that is cost prohibitive for me unless someone has some laying around and wouldn't mind selling cheap. The idea had crossed my mind.

gboezio: You sound as if I have done the same reading and research as you have. I thought about going with the odd fire/wasted spark oem style, but then started to wonder how much work would be needed to add a cam pick up. I believe it is very possible, but I haven't had the time as of late to get into it as work has been picking up at my shop.

I'm going to have another look before I finally get around to getting the rear head back together and on the bike. Those dame valve cotters are hard to find when they whiz past your face somewhere close to half the speed of light which at that point must become absolutely silent when it comes in contact with cement at those velocities. New part tomorrow and maybe a running bike for the weekend.

Thanks for the offer of help and i'll be sure to pick your brain when mine turns to slush. I need to win the lottery so I can ditch the idea of this new vinyl business and a regular job. Argh!

Ryan B.

gboezio

I'm not sure the cam synch will provide much increase in performance/driveability/ fuel economy, since the ignition system seem good at those RPM without skipping a beat. The injection is batch fire so no sequential there. I would concentrate on the Air metering system since it's the most problematic part of the conversion, a MAF sensor from a ford 4 banger could make a very good metering system IMO

lukenukem47

Did everyone give up on fuel injection?

lazn

gboezio got it going on his turboed rig (look at the sig of the post above yours)
I think he's using a megasquirt

There isn't an easy bolt on option.

inderocker

gboezio has the only injected VTR that I know of.

gboezio

It's down for the moment, it needs to have the fuel pump immersed in fuel, so I'm looking for a VFR tank and fuel pump, the fuel pump will boil the gas hen the engine is hot, then loose fuel pressure until cooled down. I will redo some suspension, wiring and of course reprogramming and will be good to go.
The fuel pressure is really bouncy due to the bouncing vacuum, so will add a plenum and restrictor to the FPR.

Other than that the throttle body is too big, a single 45 mm TB will be plenty, so I'm looking for a replacement, the one I have can bind under the tank and dont have return cable, it fires up goodeven after a year off, first crank !!

As I said in another post, I have changed job so I got my life back

mikstr

Welcome back brother

3amta3