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Sprocket Questions asked again...help needed

Old 04-04-2010, 04:20 AM
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Sprocket Questions asked again...help needed

Hi all, I'm going to do the 520 sprockets conversion but I'm a bit lost.
I want more low end ummph and am thinking about just increasing the rear sprockets teeth to 43, i think the standard one is 41.

If anyone can answer my questions I'd be gratefully,

1. How much top end will i approx lose if I add 2 more teeth on the rear.
2.would loosing one on the front and add two on the rear kill my top end?
3.Where can i buy these sprockets?? I'm not keen on ebay ones, is there a blade sprockets or something that people use. I have no idea how to source anything other than standard ones.
4. Is aluminum to weak for v twins? would steel be better?

I just want to increase to low end a bit so its easier to pull up with out compromising my top end to much, I want it all i know lol

Any help on this would be gratefully received, Recently gone back to a VTR after a 954 Blade, not as much fun, v twins rule. got loads of mods to do over the next few weeks.

Lisa.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:13 AM
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2. ive got -1 on te fron and +2 on the rear, tops out at 125.

3. any dealer, or internet store..

4. steel will last considerably longer, and theyre cheaper.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:19 AM
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Thats a big drop from 155, so i wonder what just two extra teeth will do to 155?
I take it that i can buy just any sports sproket with 43 teeth?
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:45 AM
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Any loss will be more theoretical than real. I am not sure the SH with standard gearing can pull redline in 6th gear. IF it can, and that is a bif, it would take avery long straight. So while on paper you will lose a percentage on top, in real terms with +2 it probably doesn't happen. In fact the gearing change may allow you to be faster. Where are you riding this thing that you can hit top speed enough to worry about it??

Aluminum is much lighter but wears quickly. They make some hybrid steel teeth alum carriers now that are much lighter and last longer

Google search mc gearing calculator and you'll find an online calculator that will tell you exact changes if you need that.
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:18 AM
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+2 on the rear (43 teeth) is 150mph @ 9000rpm +/- a bit depending on your rear tire. There is a rail yard near my house with an access road that has a mile straight away with full visibility and no side roads or houses. I have seen 8700rpm with the bike still pullin - albeit slowly. I have no doubt that it would pull at least 9200rpm maybe more with another mile.
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cliby View Post
Any loss will be more theoretical than real. I am not sure the SH with standard gearing can pull redline in 6th gear. IF it can, and that is a bif, it would take avery long straight. So while on paper you will lose a percentage on top, in real terms with +2 it probably doesn't happen. In fact the gearing change may allow you to be faster. Where are you riding this thing that you can hit top speed enough to worry about it??

Aluminum is much lighter but wears quickly. They make some hybrid steel teeth alum carriers now that are much lighter and last longer

Google search mc gearing calculator and you'll find an online calculator that will tell you exact changes if you need that.
+1. The VTR will theoretically go approximately 154 mph at redline in 6th gear with 15/43 gearing, and it will actually pull redline in 6th with this gearing unlike with stock gearing. The theoretical top speed with stock gearing is 170+ mph, which the Hawk doesn't have the power to pull. Shortening the gearing doesn't really affect top speed much, but it does allow the Hawk to get there quicker. Shortening the gearing is a win/win (or at least a win/no loss) as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:01 AM
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-1/+2, i hit the rev limiter at 155 ( corrected by speedohealer ).


unobtainable top end is pointless. the stock gearing is a bit too tall for the sport side but probably just right for touring. buy the +2 and test it out, if you feel like you want a bit more then spend another $15-$20 and drop down one in the front.

the trade off for me wasn't any loss on the top end but making 1rst gear pretty useless ( but for lofting the front tire ).

tim
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:22 AM
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Hijack!

So, what kind of fuel mileage are you 15/43 guys getting?


Rex
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bjorn toulouse View Post
So, what kind of fuel mileage are you 15/43 guys getting?


Rex
spirited rides... RLOD @ ~ 90-95 miles.

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Old 04-04-2010, 01:58 PM
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Well,
For the sake of a few quid (pounds) its probably worth getting a -1 front sprocket, just to see how it is. thanks trinc,So I'm convinced now that i should try both.

I do hit the limit quite often as I ride with my best mate, shes got a 98 R1, and we only differ on the top end, though i pull out of corners much better. (I love my vtr..... )
I ride pretty full on most of the time and only ever get around 80-85 mpg, I only use my VTR for pleasure so I do want a bit more power.

Anyway the only thing i need to do then is source these extra teeth cogs. When I do look online, they only list the standard stock sprockets.
I'm unsure how to order a 43 tooth sprocket? im sure all sprockets are not the same....I'm lost here or am I just dumb lol...? -don't answer that lol
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Judolisa View Post
I do hit the limit quite often



or am I just dumb lol...? -don't answer that lol
quite often? hmmmmmmm
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:18 PM
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By the use of language I'm guessing British, not US...

Here you go... http://motorcycleproducts.co.uk/cata...page=3&sort=2a

The list includes the most common sizes... And yes they are steel sprockets...

Last edited by Tweety; 04-04-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:23 PM
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Oops... Just realized you where going for 520 size... Then you will need both sprockes and a new chain obviously so then the one's I linked are useless...
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Judolisa View Post
Well,
For the sake of a few quid (pounds) its probably worth getting a -1 front sprocket, just to see how it is. thanks trinc,So I'm convinced now that i should try both.

I do hit the limit quite often as I ride with my best mate, shes got a 98 R1, and we only differ on the top end, though i pull out of corners much better. (I love my vtr..... )
I ride pretty full on most of the time and only ever get around 80-85 mpg, I only use my VTR for pleasure so I do want a bit more power.

Anyway the only thing i need to do then is source these extra teeth cogs. When I do look online, they only list the standard stock sprockets.
I'm unsure how to order a 43 tooth sprocket? im sure all sprockets are not the same....I'm lost here or am I just dumb lol...? -don't answer that lol
Here's a UK retailer with 43 tooth (530) sprockets;

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/Honda/VT..._Plus_2_Teeth/


The real purpose of a "520 conversion" (thinner chain and sprockets) is to reduce weight and lessen the inertia of the drive line.

If your only interest is lowering your final drive ratio for harder acceleration, you don't need 520. Also, you can't mix 520/530 components, must have all of one or the other.

A +2 rear sprocket will increase your engine speed vs. road speed by 4.8% (2.4% per tooth). Doesn't sound like much but you can feel the difference immediately.

You can start with just a +2 rear sprocket. It works with the original chain, you just have to remove the rear wheel and change sprockets. You don't even have to break or remove the chain. If you decide you want more later you can go for the 15 tooth front sprocket which lowers final drive by another 6.25%.

If you go for the 520 conversion you'll need two new sprockets and a new chain.

Last edited by RK1; 04-04-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 04-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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For cross reference JT is a good source...

Here http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0

The stock front is "JTF 333.16" and the rear "JTR 302.41" stick that in there and you get a list of bikes it fits... Any sprocket listed as fitting these bikes also fits the VTR and the CBR's are usually listed with 10+ options including 520 sprockets...
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by trinc View Post
-1/+2, i hit the rev limiter at 155 ( corrected by speedohealer ).
really?? i must have something else affecting my top speed then.
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:12 AM
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By calculation redline in 6'th at 15/43 is 149 mph but 10k is 157 mph so 155 on the speedo around that area isn't impossible...

Other things that could affect it... Perhaps your bike is somewhat lean on top end?
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jay956 View Post
really?? i must have something else affecting my top speed then.
I was gonna say.... We were riding saturday and I know we hit around 150, according to my buddy on his 08 CBR600RR. Mine read way over that, thanks to not having a speedo-healer. The Tach however was right up there.

Lisa, go -1 +2 and don't look back. The pure seat-of-the-pants fun and feeling is worth it.

Erik
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:56 AM
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125 mph i think somethings up with your bike, ive gone -1+2 and i hit 121 mph the other day without breaking a sweat. she pulled like a freight train that hard and if i wasnt a quarter mile from the road ending i would have stayed in it. speedohealer corrected aswell
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Erik S. View Post
I was gonna say.... We were riding saturday and I know we hit around 150, according to my buddy on his 08 CBR600RR. Mine read way over that, thanks to not having a speedo-healer. The Tach however was right up there.

Lisa, go -1 +2 and don't look back. The pure seat-of-the-pants fun and feeling is worth it.

Erik

i couldnt agree more, i cant get enough fun out of my bike, infact after the first few pulls it even scared me a little, like i was riding it for the first time again. definatly worth the money and worth the small bit of fuel economy loss
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:00 AM
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Thanks Erik, well worth doing it then, Stock gearing so needs that extra ooomph,

Thanks Tweety for those links, will source some in a week or so, as my rear wheel is off to get powder coated neon orange this week.
I don't know whats so surpising about doing 150, I though the US of all places have long boring straights to fly down, in the uk we have a few roman roads where you easy go top end.
I dont use my vtr for work or shopping ? lol

Anyway, thanks to all I'm a little clearer now, so to recap, I can stay with 530 as the wieght dosen't matter as its not a track bike, But I should be able to source 15/43 tooth 530 sprockets....
http://www.jtsprockets.com/61.0.html?&L=0&sel_artnr=JTR302,43 for the rear?
lisa.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:21 AM
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Jupp, thats correct... And then JTF 333.15 for the front...
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
By calculation redline in 6'th at 15/43 is 149 mph but 10k is 157 mph so 155 on the speedo around that area isn't impossible...

Other things that could affect it... Perhaps your bike is somewhat lean on top end?
redline is 9.5k but the rev limiter is well above that.


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Old 04-05-2010, 07:49 AM
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if you go with a high end 520 chain itll be every bit as strong as a 530 and in the grand scheme of things every little bit helps when youre trying to maximize the fun factor
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:13 AM
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Two other good things that I don't recall anyone mentioning about the 15/43 combo;
1. Stock length chain, 102 links
2. slightly shortens the wheelbase.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:33 AM
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hmm i was thinking about going up one in the front. all my friends pull from me when im toped out. they all got r1s. but i always get them in the corners lol. also it should help me from always wanting to role on in first little power wheele.. i just cant help it lol. anyone make there ratio taller?? we should just put all are sprockes we run and make a chart with top speed. sorry for the thread jacking
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:39 AM
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Well, hate to do this, but if you search for sprockets, somewhere in this mass of collected intelligence concerning our beloved Superhawk, you will find a spreadsheet with a comparison of gearing and top speed

You'll also find multiple mentions of the fact that with STOCK gearing, you can not hit redline on the bike in 6th but can hit max speed in 5th, so making the gearing higher will NOT give you a greater top speed. The Superhawk is what it is.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 4bangeranger View Post
hmm i was thinking about going up one in the front. all my friends pull from me when im toped out. they all got r1s. but i always get them in the corners lol. also it should help me from always wanting to role on in first little power wheele.. i just cant help it lol. anyone make there ratio taller?? we should just put all are sprockes we run and make a chart with top speed. sorry for the thread jacking
Going up one in the front will not improve your top speed, but it will adversely affect your acceleration. If you want to keep up with R1's on top you need another bike.
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Last edited by killer5280; 04-05-2010 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Erik S. View Post
Well, hate to do this, but if you search for sprockets, somewhere in this mass of collected intelligence concerning our beloved Superhawk, you will find a spreadsheet with a comparison of gearing and top speed

You'll also find multiple mentions of the fact that with STOCK gearing, you can not hit redline on the bike in 6th but can hit max speed in 5th, so making the gearing higher will NOT give you a greater top speed. The Superhawk is what it is.
Right! You run out of suds before you run out of soap.....so to speak.

Last edited by SisuHawk; 04-18-2010 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:26 PM
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Go with the 15/43 (as you've probably decided already!) I can still take it up to about 165mph on my uncorrected gauges at top of 5th. I'm also naked, and boy is it windy.
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