Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
12-29-2005, 12:53 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
A friend of mine (computer illeterate) recently purchased a new SuperHawk. As with all things mechanical that he owns or has ever owned he wants to start modifying it! So I have been tasked with getting some info.
Has anyone changed sprockets? He wants to gear the bike down just a little. If you have done this what size sprocket substitutions have you made? What brand sprocket did you use? Any recommendations / cautions. The goal here is to get a litle more "roll on the Throttle" grunt in top gear without the need to downshift. He wants a little less top end than the stock gearing offers but a little more snap at moderate highway speeds in top gear.
He also wants to know about something called a "Yellow Box" something related to tuning / adjusting the bikes electronics for operation after engine modifications and I suspect after gear changes. I have no idea what this thing is but I suspect it is some sort of aftermarket add on accessory???? Anyone have experience with such a thing? Any help appreciated on this I don't have much info on this "Box" gadget so any data is new data.
Lastly he tells me the bike has some sort of "water jackets" around the carbs. Something to do with emissions. Any experiences changing this system to richen up the engine a little? He seems to feel the bike is super lean...I can sure believe that in todays emissions environment....and he seems to think changing the way the carbs are warmed by the water can effect performace and driveability. This might be a simple as just shutting off the water to the carb jackets?? Again any ideas / observations appreciated.
Sorry if this is all a little vague...these new bikes are way past the technology of my CBX and my 1989 ZX-10. Any help is greatly appreciated.
He is very competent technically but I think the newness of some of this technology has him baffeled...I know I would not want to deal with it. If he gets some starting points / prelim data and warnings about what not to do from some folks with experience he can run with the ball. Apparently he cannot find any info on how to modify these subsystems.
He is particularly interested in this Yellow Box gizzmo.
Thanks in advance for your help
CBXer
Has anyone changed sprockets? He wants to gear the bike down just a little. If you have done this what size sprocket substitutions have you made? What brand sprocket did you use? Any recommendations / cautions. The goal here is to get a litle more "roll on the Throttle" grunt in top gear without the need to downshift. He wants a little less top end than the stock gearing offers but a little more snap at moderate highway speeds in top gear.
He also wants to know about something called a "Yellow Box" something related to tuning / adjusting the bikes electronics for operation after engine modifications and I suspect after gear changes. I have no idea what this thing is but I suspect it is some sort of aftermarket add on accessory???? Anyone have experience with such a thing? Any help appreciated on this I don't have much info on this "Box" gadget so any data is new data.
Lastly he tells me the bike has some sort of "water jackets" around the carbs. Something to do with emissions. Any experiences changing this system to richen up the engine a little? He seems to feel the bike is super lean...I can sure believe that in todays emissions environment....and he seems to think changing the way the carbs are warmed by the water can effect performace and driveability. This might be a simple as just shutting off the water to the carb jackets?? Again any ideas / observations appreciated.
Sorry if this is all a little vague...these new bikes are way past the technology of my CBX and my 1989 ZX-10. Any help is greatly appreciated.
He is very competent technically but I think the newness of some of this technology has him baffeled...I know I would not want to deal with it. If he gets some starting points / prelim data and warnings about what not to do from some folks with experience he can run with the ball. Apparently he cannot find any info on how to modify these subsystems.
He is particularly interested in this Yellow Box gizzmo.
Thanks in advance for your help
CBXer
12-29-2005, 01:39 PM
#2
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 758
OK. In order:
Lots of people change sprockets a little. It's probably not worth the trouble, though others might feel differently.
The "Yellow Box" is a speedo recalibrator used after gearing changes to restore proper operation. It's not a performance enhancer. It merely offers adjustable calibration of the speedo signal.
Jet kits are a good option for a little extra power. The SH responds well to them, yeilding about 5 hp.
Coolant runs through the carbs to preheat them for cold weather. Probably another mod of little benefit.
Though you didn't mention it, follow your heart. If your friend is really this novice about mods, he probably shouldn't attempt these.
Lots of people change sprockets a little. It's probably not worth the trouble, though others might feel differently.
The "Yellow Box" is a speedo recalibrator used after gearing changes to restore proper operation. It's not a performance enhancer. It merely offers adjustable calibration of the speedo signal.
Jet kits are a good option for a little extra power. The SH responds well to them, yeilding about 5 hp.
Coolant runs through the carbs to preheat them for cold weather. Probably another mod of little benefit.
Though you didn't mention it, follow your heart. If your friend is really this novice about mods, he probably shouldn't attempt these.
12-29-2005, 01:46 PM
#3
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SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 731
OK, first of all, gearing speaking, the stock SH has 16T in the front and 41T in the back. I only went two up in the back and I am very satisfied. Some recommend the 1 down in the front and two up in the back, but that way low in my opinion.
Second, the SH is a carburated bike, that means there are no electronics that control any fuel mix in the engine, the only electronics that control the engine is for the ignition of the spark plugs. So there is no "yellow box" on the SH, he can put a jet kit in the carbs, which will give better throttle response and a little more hp on top. It is pretty hard to gain a lot of HP (more than 10) on the SH without major engine mods.
Third, as to the water jackets in the carbs, I don't recommend shutting off the coolant. honda engineers didn't not spend countless hours to design a carb that big for someone to come and mess with it that way. Jet kit will be the best to do on the carbs.
For emissions sake, he can close off the PAIR system on the bike by closing the opening of this system on the head covers with block off plates. Do a search on this at this forum under PAIR valve and tell your friend to start his SH education by reading more and more on this forum.
Good luck to him.
Second, the SH is a carburated bike, that means there are no electronics that control any fuel mix in the engine, the only electronics that control the engine is for the ignition of the spark plugs. So there is no "yellow box" on the SH, he can put a jet kit in the carbs, which will give better throttle response and a little more hp on top. It is pretty hard to gain a lot of HP (more than 10) on the SH without major engine mods.
Third, as to the water jackets in the carbs, I don't recommend shutting off the coolant. honda engineers didn't not spend countless hours to design a carb that big for someone to come and mess with it that way. Jet kit will be the best to do on the carbs.
For emissions sake, he can close off the PAIR system on the bike by closing the opening of this system on the head covers with block off plates. Do a search on this at this forum under PAIR valve and tell your friend to start his SH education by reading more and more on this forum.
Good luck to him.
12-29-2005, 02:24 PM
#4
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
I have the -1 +2 sprockets and 520 chain off Ebay, (sum of all parts), I think it's a little much for the street but I love it on the track. So for the street I bought a 41 for the back. The rear sprocket is a Vortex aluminum for the track and sprocket specialest for the street, (Vortex came with the kit the other cheap on Ebay). The price was good although I had to send the first rear back, (wrong one) with no hassle and you have to cut the chain and press the master link.
As far as the yellow box the only other thing I can think of is the speedo healer,(not sure if that's the right name). It fixes the speedo reading no matter what gearing you use.
And +1 on the carbs leave 'em alone.
As far as the yellow box the only other thing I can think of is the speedo healer,(not sure if that's the right name). It fixes the speedo reading no matter what gearing you use.
And +1 on the carbs leave 'em alone.
12-29-2005, 02:31 PM
#5
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MotoGP
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Location: Gainesville FLA.
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There's a huge difference if you do enough of a change. I put mine on at the track after owning the bike for 4 1/2 years and for the first time since the day I bought the bike it almost threw me on my *** again!! It was kinda embarrassing doing a 12 'o clock wheelie on hot pit.
12-29-2005, 03:08 PM
#6
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SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 547
I would recommend the sprocket change, as it requires a lot less tinkering that the jetting. It's one of the first mods I make to any Superhawk I own, and I like it because I am a wheelie-holic and like to pull it up in 4th gear. A 43-tooth rear sprocket is almost always available on Ebay, as would be the 15-tooth front sprocket, if you feel extra daring. Changing the sprockets this way will undoubtedly give you a little extra punch from your throttle, but it will kill your top end speed (by about 7-10mph on the warped VTR speedo). As far as "roll on hit in top gear" I personally have rarely used 6th gear for anything more than changing the pitch of my engine and exhaust (TBR gets a little loud in the helmet!).
As for the "water jacketing", thats part of the coolant loop, and being as how its powered by the coolant pump on your engine, I don't think you would net any noticeable result from re-routing or blocking off those hoses, except maybe putting extra pressure on the rest of your cooling system.
Don't know enough about yellow boxes to tell you one way or the other, but I think it's been covered already.
P.S. - What was it like driving a 6-cylinder bike? I bet changing the exhaust headers was a pain in the @$$.
As for the "water jacketing", thats part of the coolant loop, and being as how its powered by the coolant pump on your engine, I don't think you would net any noticeable result from re-routing or blocking off those hoses, except maybe putting extra pressure on the rest of your cooling system.
Don't know enough about yellow boxes to tell you one way or the other, but I think it's been covered already.
P.S. - What was it like driving a 6-cylinder bike? I bet changing the exhaust headers was a pain in the @$$.
12-29-2005, 04:18 PM
#7
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Superstock
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: mtn. home, AR
Posts: 253
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
I went up 2 teeth on the rear sprocket and would recommend this mod. Gives the bike noticable increase in acceleration. Bought the sprocket through a local shop for $34.00, it is a JT. The stock chain is long enough to accept the bigger sprocket.
I believe the "yellow box" is a speedometer recalibrator and he will need it if he wants an accurate speedo. With the sprocket change mine is 10 mph off at 60 mph.
I believe the "yellow box" is a speedometer recalibrator and he will need it if he wants an accurate speedo. With the sprocket change mine is 10 mph off at 60 mph.
12-29-2005, 04:19 PM
#8
Junior Member
Squid
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
The six cyl is fun to ride....lots of low end power. Not realy a handling bike in the sense of todays Sport Bikes. It is rather heavy and without some suspension mods like a heavier swing arm and bigger fork tubes it is fairly lazy in the handling department. On the other hand the enine is smooth as silk, it just pulls away smoothly and has plenty of pulling power in most of the RPM range. It can toast a lot of todays Sport Bikes up to about ahhh I guess 90 or 100 mph but then the high rpm screamers just go blasting by me. My Zx10 (1989) gets killed in a side by side low speed roll on by the CBX but once the speed gets up and the trans in the ZX is up in 4 / 5 / 6th the ZX is long gone.
Actually the exhaust is pretty easy to work on. Remember no fairing on the CBX. Like everything else on the 6 cyl it is a little tedious 6 pipes 6 carbs...all those valves. I guess the carbs are the worst though.
Actually the exhaust is pretty easy to work on. Remember no fairing on the CBX. Like everything else on the 6 cyl it is a little tedious 6 pipes 6 carbs...all those valves. I guess the carbs are the worst though.
12-29-2005, 04:38 PM
#9
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SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nananimo, B.C.
Posts: 764
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
Minimum starter mods for the VTR are these:
1) disable PAIR system (see forums)
2) new weight matched fork springs
3) slip on exhaust
4) ss brake lines
5) high flow air filter and jet kit
6) +2 teeth on the rear sprocket
7) double bubble wind sheild
Some also put manual cam chain tensioners or newer updated ones in around 25-35k as the originals are known to fail with sometimes catestophic results.
1) disable PAIR system (see forums)
2) new weight matched fork springs
3) slip on exhaust
4) ss brake lines
5) high flow air filter and jet kit
6) +2 teeth on the rear sprocket
7) double bubble wind sheild
Some also put manual cam chain tensioners or newer updated ones in around 25-35k as the originals are known to fail with sometimes catestophic results.
12-29-2005, 04:42 PM
#10
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SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 882
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
Take a look at speedohealer.com instead of the Yellow box.
Speedohealer plugs in while Yellow box takes some wire splicing.
Both correct speedometer & odometer errors.
Stock speedo & odo are off 8% to 9%
Changing gearing from a 16/41 (stock) to a 15/43 will make it worse.
Speedo healer also has a cool calculator for stock & with gear changes
http://speedohealer.com/eng/adjust.htm
I'll post my speedohealer results when it arrives & gets installed (about a week or so)
Speedohealer plugs in while Yellow box takes some wire splicing.
Both correct speedometer & odometer errors.
Stock speedo & odo are off 8% to 9%
Changing gearing from a 16/41 (stock) to a 15/43 will make it worse.
Speedo healer also has a cool calculator for stock & with gear changes
http://speedohealer.com/eng/adjust.htm
I'll post my speedohealer results when it arrives & gets installed (about a week or so)
12-30-2005, 10:26 AM
#11
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
Ok Guys......Great Info
Just spoke to my friend...I was wrong about the Yellow Box and what it did. He was on target about the box being used to correct the speedo. He is very interested in the alternative box that plugs in as opposed to requiring cutting wires. I will follow up on that web site. Thanks for that tip.
On the topic of Jets. What experience have you folks had with doing this....how much jet is too much jet? Any suggestions appreciated. Any issues with working on the carbs? My friend says the shop manual cautions against fooling with the carbs unless it is 100% necessary. Might just be the Emissions Boogie Man being used to scare people.."Don't fool with the carbs .the EPA will be after ya". Those of you who hae taken the carbs apart...any tricks or cautions suggested?
Another question...he wants me to ask about sme other add on box that tells you what gear you are in. Some sort of light with a numeric display of what gear the trans is in? ever heard of this???
I am going to look up the PAIR removal suggestions as indicated above and foreward those on to him.
Any help on the jets is greatly appreciated and the suggestions on the "yellow Box' are certainly welcome. Cutting into the harnes of an almost new bike just never seems very appealing.
Thanks
CBXer
Just spoke to my friend...I was wrong about the Yellow Box and what it did. He was on target about the box being used to correct the speedo. He is very interested in the alternative box that plugs in as opposed to requiring cutting wires. I will follow up on that web site. Thanks for that tip.
On the topic of Jets. What experience have you folks had with doing this....how much jet is too much jet? Any suggestions appreciated. Any issues with working on the carbs? My friend says the shop manual cautions against fooling with the carbs unless it is 100% necessary. Might just be the Emissions Boogie Man being used to scare people.."Don't fool with the carbs .the EPA will be after ya". Those of you who hae taken the carbs apart...any tricks or cautions suggested?
Another question...he wants me to ask about sme other add on box that tells you what gear you are in. Some sort of light with a numeric display of what gear the trans is in? ever heard of this???
I am going to look up the PAIR removal suggestions as indicated above and foreward those on to him.
Any help on the jets is greatly appreciated and the suggestions on the "yellow Box' are certainly welcome. Cutting into the harnes of an almost new bike just never seems very appealing.
Thanks
CBXer
12-30-2005, 11:02 AM
#12
Hmm?
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 2,069
12-30-2005, 11:14 AM
#13
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 547
I used a Factory Jet kit when I installed aftermarket pipes, because the needle and main jets just weren't calibrated right. If memory serves me, they recommend using a #180 main jet in the front and #175 in the rear with standard exhausts, #185/#180 for aftermarket exhausts, and #190/#185 for aftermarket exhausts AND a K&N Filter. The jet kit I used also had me drill a small hole in each of the vacuum slides to make them open faster.
Jetting is a virtual must if you are changing up your exhaust, but it is not required for just a sprocket change or just a K&N filter upgrade. You can usually tell if your bike needs re-jetting because it will stumble under certain conditions or the powerband just won't be as smooth as stock.
As far as cautionary tips, be VERY careful, if you do re-jet, with respect to the neoprene vacuum gaskets, as just like a balloon, any hole will yield huge losses in pressure. I say use caution because when you are disassembling carbs, you will inevitably have needles and other sharp objects in the area, and it doesn't take much force to do irreparable damage. Other than that, its very straightforward, and your jet kit will usually have instructions. Buy the complete kit, don't buy just the jets, if you haven't done it before.
Good luck
Jetting is a virtual must if you are changing up your exhaust, but it is not required for just a sprocket change or just a K&N filter upgrade. You can usually tell if your bike needs re-jetting because it will stumble under certain conditions or the powerband just won't be as smooth as stock.
As far as cautionary tips, be VERY careful, if you do re-jet, with respect to the neoprene vacuum gaskets, as just like a balloon, any hole will yield huge losses in pressure. I say use caution because when you are disassembling carbs, you will inevitably have needles and other sharp objects in the area, and it doesn't take much force to do irreparable damage. Other than that, its very straightforward, and your jet kit will usually have instructions. Buy the complete kit, don't buy just the jets, if you haven't done it before.
Good luck
12-30-2005, 05:52 PM
#14
Remember stock is BAD!
SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 760
Re: Some Rookie Questions About Superhawks
Unless you know carbs back and forth I wouldn't suggest your friend putting in a jet kit.
Take it to a professional wrench. There is just too much that can go wrong.
The $ spent will be worth the time and effort expended.
Take it to a professional wrench. There is just too much that can go wrong.
The $ spent will be worth the time and effort expended.
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