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So I got this carbon fiber... Undertail maybe.

Old 09-27-2016, 10:29 AM
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So I got this carbon fiber... Undertail maybe.

I noticed the whole battery tray exct is steel. I said eh self what the frekin spock did you buy. So I called china and had a meter of twill delivered. But I got thinkin. If I bolt titanium pipe as part of the seat frame I could bond to it witg carbon fiber and do the whole tail! Not with a metre but with a few. Wouldnt that ve a bit lighter? plus the whole tail would involve 4 bolts abd a pin for the seat. I trust my **** to titanium and carbon. any objections? I wanna here em as I only got two wheels and one life. I trust that itll be strong but lighter is the question.
EDIT: ITs not steel its aluminum. but still heavy.

Last edited by RedStormJ; 10-19-2016 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:30 AM
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And im not drunk. Just fat thumbs. Ill draw a picture for yall and post it soon. see ya.

Soo... I feel stupid. I went to yank this so called steel out and noticed its plastic. So I dont know the benefits of remaking out of carbon. I will however do a titanium seat frame. Just gotta measure thickness and find a welder. After some looking I find that it might be best to make the whole tail out of carbonfiber with a titanium frame That should knock down the weight some but for now I think the steel pieces of frame are the biggest weight adders besides the exehausts and rims. So... I will be holding off until further notice. By the way aliexpress has some awesome deals on good quality twill. Got 1m for 15 usd.

Last edited by RedStormJ; 09-28-2016 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Ima idiot.
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Old 10-11-2016, 12:29 AM
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Major update. It took me going full mental on the bike to see that I dint check well. as you all probably know undertail is alu plate. I made a cardstock template and I am impregnating it with resin so I can make a RC213V tail. well sort of. I found a direction that I want to go with on this bike. Super touring.
I dropped the undertail to match the frame for stregnth and space. I closed the side gap. between the frame and fairing. I rounded the back with a half circle for a more modern look including an led tail light similar to the RC213. I also ordered signals similar to that bike. with battery it should shave me over 10 lbs and relocate weight to the bike core. this may include a 1 gallon reserve cell!
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:15 PM
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Cardboard.

Just incase anyone is wondering. Do not cut templates from cardboard and glass over them, The cardboard will sag. I have one hell of a mess to clean up and may have to discard the whole prototype and start over. I did get to the fiberglass stage but let me tell you all stick with the tride and true method of paper to foam to part method. It is much less work in the end, My buck is all twisted. It will work for an idea maker but most likley has to go in the trash. 40 bucks down the tubes.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:10 PM
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Cover your cardboard with alum foil...
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:14 AM
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...or duct tape. Anything really that won't soak up the resin. Aluminum foil works great though. Especially the coated "non-stick" kind.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:54 AM
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Yeah well past that already.... I thought I could be "Smart" and pre impregnate the card stock to make it stiffer and not soak resin. This project turned into sanding my marbles off in the garage for a few days. Tomorrow I am going to run out for bondo. Good/bad news is its the last good day. Meaning as soon as it gets nasty out the rear can come back off the bike and I will be free to bolt this mess on and start forming the top of the tail.
The tray is all twisted and bumpy. It's only a plug but Its going to cost me a few days of hard labor and some bloddy noses. I already got that coalminers cough back from a day without the mask.
Thanks for the advice guys I have herd it before I just had to try something new and totaly screw my self at least once. Good news is its not my first part so I know what to do to fix it. Photos after a few pounds of bondo.

" Listen up kids. If you dont want to slowly die a painful death with lots of I dont remember then wear a mask."
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:05 PM
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Update.... My buck is in the trash and I gotta pull the tail again to fit foam block in the tail to start over
I fit the buck on the bike and because of my impregnate the cardboard Idea it was Fooked. Crooked as cash for gold stand.
Im going classic foam block and I need to order good resin online this stuff aint too strong. Ive used way better from home depot.....
Going with a good laminating resin.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:30 AM
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Glued together a bunch of pieces of foam to make a block today. I also carefully built the left side curve for the frame. I wish I had a welder and sheet because this would be done by now.

Never done a buck in foam so be ready to chime in at any time. I am going to wrap my buck in packing tape.

Id post pictures but its literally just a foam brick at this point. I gotta add another layer because its not tall enough yet.

I am going to buy more glue tonight but I am done cutting foam and having beads everywhere for this evening.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RedStormJ View Post
Glued together a bunch of pieces of foam to make a block today. I also carefully built the left side curve for the frame. I wish I had a welder and sheet because this would be done by now.

Never done a buck in foam so be ready to chime in at any time. I am going to wrap my buck in packing tape.

Id post pictures but its literally just a foam brick at this point. I gotta add another layer because its not tall enough yet.

I am going to buy more glue tonight but I am done cutting foam and having beads everywhere for this evening.
What type of foam are you using.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:19 AM
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Regular old Styrofoam from instant coolers. I used it for some model rocket stuff before so I know it shapes easy .
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RedStormJ View Post
Regular old Styrofoam from instant coolers. I used it for some model rocket stuff before so I know it shapes easy .
IIRC polyester resin will melt styrofoam.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:28 AM
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I know. Thats why I am coating it with tape and probably lots of bondo. Poly putty seems to be okay with foam. If I had real money I would be sculpting it out of quick spray foam or out of clay. I did some intakes both ways.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:30 AM
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:52 PM
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Got the ***** to cut the brick today. I drank a beer just one last night but thats enough to be over the limit in japan so still no glue. So far so good. By the weekend I want to get a can of expanding foam to fill the voids. Btw expanding foam sands like plastic so it really sucks but its good to use for odd voids and such.
I got a notch marked out for the frame but dont have the guts to cut it until the rest of the tail has been glued on and I have the tail off the bike. Weathers nice so im riding.
Attached Thumbnails So I got this carbon fiber... Undertail maybe.-20161020_134508.jpg  
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Old 10-22-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RedStormJ View Post
Got the ***** to cut the brick today. I drank a beer just one last night but thats enough to be over the limit in japan so still no glue. So far so good. By the weekend I want to get a can of expanding foam to fill the voids. Btw expanding foam sands like plastic so it really sucks but its good to use for odd voids and such.
I got a notch marked out for the frame but dont have the guts to cut it until the rest of the tail has been glued on and I have the tail off the bike. Weathers nice so im riding.
Just leave it like that and you'll be able to carry that one beer in a seat that doubles as a cooler.
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Old 10-22-2016, 05:08 PM
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Haha, I think Xeris is onto a new fad. Seat Cooler, for when you want to park it and be sociable.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:42 AM
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cant even drink one and drive here... ....
Id totally leave some foam in if that was the case. Dunno if it will fir but ordered a 04 1000 rr swingarm with chain tire brake and caliper. I will run the rim for sure but dunno if the rest will fit.
Wont be cutting the foam for two days wifes friend is in town. I gotta be sociable.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:28 AM
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The shock linkage mounts are different between the VTR and 1000rr swingarms - as the VTR has the shock offset to accommodate the rear header.



Plus the VTR's swinger attaches on the back of the engine...
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:50 PM
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So with some machine work Its a maybe then? I ordered it for the tire and rim. But think there is an advantage? I would think so as the suspension is more compact and up to date on the rr.
If I can make it fit and it looks and works nice I will.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:57 PM
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Even if you cut most the center section out of the pivot tube of the RR's swingarm, I still dont think it will fit.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:39 AM
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Ill save it for that sp2 engine I want to get then if I cant make it work. I just think without actually testing it it would be better to have the updated suspension system alone with a possibly stiffer brace. I paid for it what it would cost for the rim exct minus the swing arm so I am happy.

I bought spray foam, glue and a sheet of nice clean foam for my buck today. I am hoping I can make a nice monocoque including a seat mount.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:01 PM
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so... I dont like it. somethings off. looks like a kangaroo tail...
EDIT: Photos

I wanted an rc 213vs look and I think I got a drunk kangaroo tail....

Just sitting here staring at my laptop I realised I may be able to fend off the frunk kangaroo look by removing material after the seat back. The foam block is the frame with so I will measure out center again and block sand it rounder. Been hard as I was too cheap to get foam glue and ended up with hot melt. Problem is that hot melt dont sand worth a ****.

Last edited by RedStormJ; 10-26-2016 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Add photos
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:32 AM
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Why don't you buy a fiberglass tail and wrap it with your carbon fiber? Just a thought, since those fiberglass tails, similar to the one you want, are sold for pretty cheap.

EDIT: Wow, well I thought they were cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/alpha-Racing...tX~2KS&vxp=mtr

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 10-27-2016 at 07:46 AM. Reason: similar
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:12 AM
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I am a bit too far in. Ill look none the less but I want a good strong light tail. I already have the carbonfiber.
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Old 10-27-2016, 09:31 AM
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The amount of weight you'll be saving between a solely carbon fiber part and a fiberglass/carbon fiber part that size is merely ounces. If you're concerned about ounces, ride with half a tank of fuel or take a leak before you ride.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:05 PM
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Crux,
Stiffness. My butt is going to be hanging over the tire with no frame in it. I looked at all the specs and it seems safer. Plus its practice for my fuel tank. I have had fiberglass wick liquids up a few times and it seems carbon fiber is less prone. Polyynlester (< cant spell.) is also better at keeping liquids out and resistant to new fuel.
If you remember my old posts. I am trying to take a hefty load off. and trying to get it lower. I saw in your thread that your bike is close to my goal weight. How did you do it?

Also I already made the buck and have the material. I wanna make it my own. I am more looking for visual opinions or advice on how to get the shape to match better. RC213vs has a nice seat and tail that I am trying to semi enulate. I overlooked the mount point at first so now I am trying to find better lines with the bike as my tank will look stock.

I also read the post about the tail before the edit cheap not at the moment eh? I am about 100 in and have enough to make a bunch of small parts like hangers exct.

Last edited by RedStormJ; 10-27-2016 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:30 PM
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So now whats next? Use this as a mold for carbon fiber? Interested in seeing how this works. No pillion/passenger accommodations I assume?
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:02 PM
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I really think you should read this book:
Competition Car Composites: A Practical Handbook by Simon McBeath

It has helped me immensely doing small and medium size parts (fiberglass & carbon fiber). Seriously, buy the book, read it. If you undertake everything involved making this part and then read the book, you will kick yourself for not reading it earlier.

How are you going to design the part to take your weight without the sub frame? Just curious.

My bike weighed exactly 312 lbs. dry, except for one quart of oil. It also did not have the fairing attached or the headlight attached, or any coolant or fuel. So, fully suited, I assume it will weigh a little under 400 lbs. I have the materials and skills to make an aluminum fairing stay and an aluminum sub frame. Just need the time to make them. So, that will lower the weight a little more.

If you really want to shave weight with this bike and feel the results, I suggest you look at member mikstr's bike. He calls it the "Carbon Express" for a reason.
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Old 10-28-2016, 09:52 AM
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I had a chat with mr. mistkr his bike is cool. Well the tail project got its test fit today... I will post pictures later
. yes I plan on full monocoque spare an aluminum insert. for the carbonfiber to hang on to.

The foam is mounted up for a bad bad bad reason.... Something real bad happened to the bike so its about 300 lbs now as my bike is down as far as yours...

But yes no passenger acomidations. I dont trust my skill that much. No hangers nothing will hang on the tail and it will have a led tail light.
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