She will ne' stop en a dime cap'n! (or, why I upgraded the brakes)
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 371
From: No longer in 'The Suck'!!!
She will ne' stop en a dime cap'n! (or, why I upgraded the brakes)
Oh, but she will. She will.
VTR brakes are okay. Just okay. The stock MC definitely leaves something to be desired, but with a set of EBC HH pads the calipers and rotors provide pretty decent speed bleed-off. Still needed 3-4 fingers and a significant effort at the lever to get her hauled down from speed at the track. Sufficient, but requiring a LOT more effort than my F4i w/ a brembo MC. Grab a handful, and then progressively squeeze harder and harder as the weight transfers.
The upgrade to 320mm rotors and 954 MC and calipers is night and day. Firm at the lever, with plenty of feel for how the front is reacting. Add in another set of EBC HH pads: Holy S#!t. While bedding in the brakes, the front tire was getting the balled-up rubber usually seen at the edges of the rear tire as you get really throttle-happy coming out of corners. While it's still not quite as 'hardwood floorboards' at the lever as a new ZX-14, braking into corners is a one-finger affair now, with 2 finger stops thus far reserved for pad bedding and emergency stops.
Lets hear opinions from the rest of you who have done front end brake upgrades. What are you running, and how is it?
VTR brakes are okay. Just okay. The stock MC definitely leaves something to be desired, but with a set of EBC HH pads the calipers and rotors provide pretty decent speed bleed-off. Still needed 3-4 fingers and a significant effort at the lever to get her hauled down from speed at the track. Sufficient, but requiring a LOT more effort than my F4i w/ a brembo MC. Grab a handful, and then progressively squeeze harder and harder as the weight transfers.
The upgrade to 320mm rotors and 954 MC and calipers is night and day. Firm at the lever, with plenty of feel for how the front is reacting. Add in another set of EBC HH pads: Holy S#!t. While bedding in the brakes, the front tire was getting the balled-up rubber usually seen at the edges of the rear tire as you get really throttle-happy coming out of corners. While it's still not quite as 'hardwood floorboards' at the lever as a new ZX-14, braking into corners is a one-finger affair now, with 2 finger stops thus far reserved for pad bedding and emergency stops.
Lets hear opinions from the rest of you who have done front end brake upgrades. What are you running, and how is it?
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 505
From: Twin Cities
I've got the master cylinder and calipers off of a '03 600rr. Stock superhawk lines and I'm not sure what the pads are because they were nearly new when they came with calipers. I always thought the stock setup was good, not great. But after switching those components it becomes pretty evident just how sub-par they were. They are much more responsive and the lever feels great. Not as nice as most of the new bikes in the showroom but I think it would come pretty close with stainless line and HH pads. I now have an integrated resivoir too. It gives a sleeker look to the cockpit.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,051
From: Portland, Oregon
skip the EBC HH and get a set of vesrah RJL's. EBC, imo, bite hard at first but trail off... and once you get them hot, good god, they suck. the RJL's are the most linear pad that do not fade w/ heat i've ever ran.
tim
tim
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,051
From: Portland, Oregon
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 344
Master Cylinder question
Sorry for the newb question, but here it goes.
Will this MC fit my 2005 VTR?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I installed Spiegler SS lines, 2001 Suzuki GSXR1000 front brake calipers, but I'm not getting the stopping power everyone else is getting. I'm guessing it's because of the stock MC, when I should have upgraded the MC. What do you think and where can I find a MC that will help me out?
Will this MC fit my 2005 VTR?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I installed Spiegler SS lines, 2001 Suzuki GSXR1000 front brake calipers, but I'm not getting the stopping power everyone else is getting. I'm guessing it's because of the stock MC, when I should have upgraded the MC. What do you think and where can I find a MC that will help me out?
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,051
From: Portland, Oregon
Sorry for the newb question, but here it goes.
Will this MC fit my 2005 VTR?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I installed Spiegler SS lines, 2001 Suzuki GSXR1000 front brake calipers, but I'm not getting the stopping power everyone else is getting. I'm guessing it's because of the stock MC, when I should have upgraded the MC. What do you think and where can I find a MC that will help me out?
Will this MC fit my 2005 VTR?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I installed Spiegler SS lines, 2001 Suzuki GSXR1000 front brake calipers, but I'm not getting the stopping power everyone else is getting. I'm guessing it's because of the stock MC, when I should have upgraded the MC. What do you think and where can I find a MC that will help me out?
cbr900rr also used a 5/8 mc ( & the same lever ), the f4i, iirc is also a
5/8". search the site somebody had a list of the most common.
tim
Who are you?
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 731
From: Las Vegas, NV
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-07...=p4506.c0.m245
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR-...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NINJA...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWAS...Q5fAccessories
Better yet, here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-07...Q5fAccessories
Buy it, use the master, sell the calipers. You'll make another 50 off the calipers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR-...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NINJA...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWAS...Q5fAccessories
Better yet, here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-07...Q5fAccessories
Buy it, use the master, sell the calipers. You'll make another 50 off the calipers.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,138
From: Austin, Tx
I did the gixxer calipers, lines, EBC pads all in my 07 build. Never did anything about the stock mc but I did find that bleeding it properly had a lot to do with my brake performance. I've got a 954 on the shelf but I can stoppie at a hundred with no fade. One or two fingers is all it takes.
It's almost easy to overdo it and that's never good.
Footnotes: My front has been reworked so I don't get the death-dive of the stock forks. The rear has had the same treatment so it squats rather than wants to lift.
Don't get me wrong, my 07 build was all about the scarey stock brakes. The suspension mods were convenient while I had the bike tore down and had the cash. The combination is the best for the road - whole new bike - no bull!
It's almost easy to overdo it and that's never good.
Footnotes: My front has been reworked so I don't get the death-dive of the stock forks. The rear has had the same treatment so it squats rather than wants to lift.
Don't get me wrong, my 07 build was all about the scarey stock brakes. The suspension mods were convenient while I had the bike tore down and had the cash. The combination is the best for the road - whole new bike - no bull!
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Throwing another question into the pot - has anyone compared a radial MC to non-radial? If so, noticeable difference?
Okay, another one: I noticed that some of the levers don't come with reservoirs. Will the SH's easily fit?
Okay, another one: I noticed that some of the levers don't come with reservoirs. Will the SH's easily fit?
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,138
From: Austin, Tx
I think the radials are preferred but I have no personal experience. The levers have to be specific to the MC they are not universal.
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SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 731
From: Las Vegas, NV
I noticed a difference when I switch from a conventional to a radial, despite the fact they both had identical piston diameters
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,631
From: Montreal
I switched from an SP-2 MC to a radial from a ZX-6R (06 model; believe its geometry is close to a Brembo 19/16) and the difference was staggering. Highly recommended.
P.S. Not sure about all the physics involved but the feel and power were/are greatly improved
P.S. Not sure about all the physics involved but the feel and power were/are greatly improved
Who are you?
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 731
From: Las Vegas, NV
Another thing is the ZX6 has a larger diameter piston, which moves a larger amount of fluid with the same amount of lever travel. However it requires more strength to move it. So a smaller piston will be easier to squeeze, but will require more lever travel to move an equal amount of fluid.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,631
From: Montreal
later model ZX-6s (06 and up I believe) use a larger diameter piston while the earlier versions used a smaller diameter. One last thing, it is not just about piston size but also leverage on the lever itself. As I noted earlier, despite the larger piston (which reduces line pressure for any given effort), the leverage at the lever is such that braking effort is reduced and power is up noticeably.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Clarification: I meant the brake assemblies without reservoirs ..... can you switch the reservoir from the VTR brake assembly to the assembly W/O a reservoir? (I recall reading a post that implied it was not possible, though I don't understand why.)
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Clarification: I meant the brake assemblies without reservoirs ..... can you switch the reservoir from the VTR brake assembly to the assembly W/O a reservoir? (I recall reading a post that implied it was not possible, though I don't understand why.)
The "easy/lazy" solution get all matching parts and just bolt them together...
My solution, get a sheet of aluminium and cut a new mounting arm with holes in the right places, bend to my own liking and bolt together... Much easier/cheaper and I can decide where to put it to not hit fairings... But then again... I have all the tools needed and available...
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The difference between a radial and axial MC is very simple...
An axial (ie old faithful) has a linkage and moves the piston sideways when you move the handle towards the bar... Gives more leverage (more power with less work) and more compact size... Useful if you want to clamp the ever loving **** out of the calipers/discs and lock the front...
Axial MC's move the piston in the same direction as the lever... Less leverage, ie to clamp down on the brakes it will need a bit more force, but instead you have way more feel and "adjustability" when braking... Bulkier and might be tight against the fairing...
If you have upgraded the calipers and like all have reported have 2-3 finger braking the result is that you won't mind the loss in leverage, you can still lock the front very easily, but you are less likely to do so...
An axial (ie old faithful) has a linkage and moves the piston sideways when you move the handle towards the bar... Gives more leverage (more power with less work) and more compact size... Useful if you want to clamp the ever loving **** out of the calipers/discs and lock the front...
Axial MC's move the piston in the same direction as the lever... Less leverage, ie to clamp down on the brakes it will need a bit more force, but instead you have way more feel and "adjustability" when braking... Bulkier and might be tight against the fairing...
If you have upgraded the calipers and like all have reported have 2-3 finger braking the result is that you won't mind the loss in leverage, you can still lock the front very easily, but you are less likely to do so...
Senior Member
SuperBike
SuperBike
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,031
From: Los Angeles ish
My solution, get a sheet of aluminium and cut a new mounting arm with holes in the right places, bend to my own liking and bolt together... Much easier/cheaper and I can decide where to put it to not hit fairings... But then again... I have all the tools needed and available...
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