No power wheelie?
11-29-2008, 07:57 AM
#1
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No power wheelie?
I was a bit surprised that this "torque monster" wouldn't bring up the front end from throttle alone. I AM 230lbs and leaning way forward to reach the clipons, so I understand it's not easy to do.
What does it take? rejetting and breathing help?
I'd prefer to keep the oem exhaust, would going down 1 tooth on the front sprocket make it happen? Up on back? Which is better?
Thanks
What does it take? rejetting and breathing help?
I'd prefer to keep the oem exhaust, would going down 1 tooth on the front sprocket make it happen? Up on back? Which is better?
Thanks
11-29-2008, 08:43 AM
#3
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Depends on what you mean by power wheelies? if you mean simply by throttle alone, then no, it won't do it as easily as you may be lead to believe. Others have written about this quite a bit, often exaggerating claims - like it wheelies in third gear easily, etc etc. With nothing more than leaning forward on the clip ons and opening it up full throttle around 4K, it will probably lift the front wheel in first gear, a little. probably. But in now way is this a wheelie happy bike. Depends on gearing, rear suspension settings and technique. But if you want to try just roll along up to a steady 5K rpm in 1st gear, let off the throttle quickly, just long enough to let the front bounce forward and compress the forks. Then right away open it up while giving a small pull back on bars and also using the bounce from the front springs you just compressed (they will bounce back). If it doesn't come up then you aren't trying hard enough. Again, having the rear of the bike raised, or too soft, or the front forks raised will all makes this harder to do for a variety of reasons. And so will taller gearing, obviously.
All the simple things you can do to the engine (aside from being sure its in good tune) won't net you enough power to make a difference in this move.
All the simple things you can do to the engine (aside from being sure its in good tune) won't net you enough power to make a difference in this move.
11-29-2008, 09:52 AM
#4
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If you roll on hard in first gear it will come up, quick. I am 325lbs so weight is not an issue. The key is rolling on hard enough to intentionally wheelie. If you dont roll on hard or quick enough you will just accelerate really hard. Slipping the clutch with a little tug on the bars works the best for my big ***.
11-29-2008, 09:58 AM
#5
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Start the roll on at 5-5500 rpm, tugging at the bars at the same time, having already slid your *** back on the seat. Don't forget to cover the rear brake.
Yes, a fifteen tooth front sprocket helps.
Yes, a fifteen tooth front sprocket helps.
11-29-2008, 10:47 AM
#6
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Depends on what you mean by power wheelies? if you mean simply by throttle alone, then no, it won't do it as easily as you may be lead to believe. Others have written about this quite a bit, often exaggerating claims - like it wheelies in third gear easily, etc etc. With nothing more than leaning forward on the clip ons and opening it up full throttle around 4K, it will probably lift the front wheel in first gear, a little. probably. But in now way is this a wheelie happy bike. Depends on gearing, rear suspension settings and technique. But if you want to try just roll along up to a steady 5K rpm in 1st gear, let off the throttle quickly, just long enough to let the front bounce forward and compress the forks. Then right away open it up while giving a small pull back on bars and also using the bounce from the front springs you just compressed (they will bounce back). If it doesn't come up then you aren't trying hard enough. Again, having the rear of the bike raised, or too soft, or the front forks raised will all makes this harder to do for a variety of reasons. And so will taller gearing, obviously.
All the simple things you can do to the engine (aside from being sure its in good tune) won't net you enough power to make a difference in this move.
All the simple things you can do to the engine (aside from being sure its in good tune) won't net you enough power to make a difference in this move.
A little shift in weight plus a small tug on the bars or a "bounce" as you describe and a stock VTR will loft the front consistantly in first and second... But it requires you to be decisive with the throttle...
A good start is to be able to sit with complete balance with your *** alone, keeping balance with your knees and taking all the weigth of the arms... (also useful for longer hauls...) Preferably on the rear part of the seat aswell...
Yeah changing gearing will make it easier to wheelie... But decreases mileage and could make it uncomfortable at highway speeds...
There is a link around here somewhere to a excel spreadsheet that calculates the gearing vs speed differences... Take a look at that...
BTW cliby... On power alone it's more than possible to loop a stock VTR in first gear roll ons as long as you arent putting all weight on the bars... So it will do more than lift slightly... Second gear is an entirely different thing...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-29-2008 at 10:53 AM.
11-29-2008, 10:59 AM
#7
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If you roll on hard in first gear it will come up, quick. I am 325lbs so weight is not an issue. The key is rolling on hard enough to intentionally wheelie. If you dont roll on hard or quick enough you will just accelerate really hard. Slipping the clutch with a little tug on the bars works the best for my big ***.
If it doesn't come up in first gear from throttle alone you're not getting on it hard enough early enough.
Last edited by killer5280; 11-29-2008 at 11:03 AM.
11-29-2008, 11:09 AM
#9
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If you're looking for easy roll-on wheelies...do what I did. 2 teeth down in the front and 4 up in the rear. I'm 185 lbs. and it doesn't matter what body position I'm in...1st gear will flip you if you go full throttle, 3/4 throttle, or even 1/2 throttle. 2nd gear pops up easy as well and 3rd gear will come up under light clutching. Top speed geared like so ain't much...factoring in speedo error (huge error at that gearing)...I've topped out at around 140. For where I live, this is perfect though. It's all corners here...no need for speed.
11-29-2008, 11:34 AM
#10
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I can power wheelie in 1st and sometimes 2nd and am ~200lbs it just takes being aggressive on the throttle with my weight not all on my wrists.. (comfortable upright position will do it)
My bike is 100% stock
My bike is 100% stock
11-29-2008, 12:03 PM
#11
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Always remember to keep your right foot just above the rear brake lever in case you start to come up too high, you can apply the rear brake to get the front wheel back on the ground quickly. Practice make it easier as time goes on. Nothing looks cooler than riding a wheelie.
11-29-2008, 12:49 PM
#12
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my m900 ducati, 904cc 2 valves per cyl, 80 hp, will roll on wheelie no problem 1st an 2nd gear. I can get it up in third without using the clutch.
The superhawk has more power but it also has a little more weight. I say 1st and 2nd wheelies will happen, and i weigh 130 lbs
The superhawk has more power but it also has a little more weight. I say 1st and 2nd wheelies will happen, and i weigh 130 lbs
11-29-2008, 02:32 PM
#13
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I'm about 200lbs maybe less.
If you'd like to see what the hawk can do "wheelie-wise",
get going to about 5k rpms (going steadily).
Then crack open the throttle as quickly as you can.
If you real-ie like to wheel-ie (hehe) start having in depth conversations with your clutch lever. It can work wheelie miracles, but be careful.
From a rolling start, I can normally pop it up from first to second before it even red-line's. I'm nearly positive I could do that into third, but I always run out of room and have to slow down.
I've had it at around 6 or 7k rpm's before (in 1st gear) and was able to get the front end airborne every time I wicked the throttle. Came up 4 or 5 times in a row, then again when shifting into second.
:: Running into my Garage to hug my Hawk ::
If you'd like to see what the hawk can do "wheelie-wise",
get going to about 5k rpms (going steadily).
Then crack open the throttle as quickly as you can.
If you real-ie like to wheel-ie (hehe) start having in depth conversations with your clutch lever. It can work wheelie miracles, but be careful.
From a rolling start, I can normally pop it up from first to second before it even red-line's. I'm nearly positive I could do that into third, but I always run out of room and have to slow down.
I've had it at around 6 or 7k rpm's before (in 1st gear) and was able to get the front end airborne every time I wicked the throttle. Came up 4 or 5 times in a row, then again when shifting into second.
:: Running into my Garage to hug my Hawk ::
11-29-2008, 04:03 PM
#14
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im not into riding wheelies. but i like watching them in controlled situations (parking lots ect). i will be sure not to do any of before mentioned tecknics lol. im glad it has the power but my hawk will remain grounded.
11-29-2008, 04:47 PM
#15
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Yeah well I know of almost no bike available on the market that will loft the front with all weight on the bars and just a roll on... They all take some amount of technique...
A little shift in weight plus a small tug on the bars or a "bounce" as you describe and a stock VTR will loft the front consistantly in first and second... But it requires you to be decisive with the throttle...
A good start is to be able to sit with complete balance with your *** alone, keeping balance with your knees and taking all the weigth of the arms... (also useful for longer hauls...) Preferably on the rear part of the seat aswell...
Yeah changing gearing will make it easier to wheelie... But decreases mileage and could make it uncomfortable at highway speeds...
There is a link around here somewhere to a excel spreadsheet that calculates the gearing vs speed differences... Take a look at that...
BTW cliby... On power alone it's more than possible to loop a stock VTR in first gear roll ons as long as you arent putting all weight on the bars... So it will do more than lift slightly... Second gear is an entirely different thing...
A little shift in weight plus a small tug on the bars or a "bounce" as you describe and a stock VTR will loft the front consistantly in first and second... But it requires you to be decisive with the throttle...
A good start is to be able to sit with complete balance with your *** alone, keeping balance with your knees and taking all the weigth of the arms... (also useful for longer hauls...) Preferably on the rear part of the seat aswell...
Yeah changing gearing will make it easier to wheelie... But decreases mileage and could make it uncomfortable at highway speeds...
There is a link around here somewhere to a excel spreadsheet that calculates the gearing vs speed differences... Take a look at that...
BTW cliby... On power alone it's more than possible to loop a stock VTR in first gear roll ons as long as you arent putting all weight on the bars... So it will do more than lift slightly... Second gear is an entirely different thing...
11-29-2008, 05:04 PM
#16
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but tweety, that was what he asked - will this bike wheelie with just throttle alone? And without some intential effort, this bike is not a big wheelie risk, at least not once rolling above 20mph. From a stop its a different story. There are a lot of current bikes where rolling along in midrange you can wheelie with nothing more than a handful of throttle - geometry and sheer power of some of the newer big bikes make is quite easy.
There are a few bikes that can do that... All stupidly overpowered... But almost all requires you to sit up and remove the weigth from the bars... The VTR can do that, just as well as any other bike with decent torque...
As my bike is now I can get it up in 1'st & 2'nd without any bouncing or otherwise, only power as long as I don't put my bodyweight on the bars... It's a lot easier with help... And in 3'rd it needs the help... But mine's not entirely stock and geared...
A stock VTR that doesn't do powerwheelies in first needs to be repaired... Second might need some help on a stocker... dunno... been a while since mine was stock...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-29-2008 at 05:07 PM.
11-29-2008, 05:35 PM
#18
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I don't get it. No matter how much weight I put on my hands, no matter how far forward I climb, no matter how gentle I start out- I can't use full throttle in first without lifting the front wheel.
11-29-2008, 05:45 PM
#19
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Kind of my point here... If your not doing powerwheelies in first you aren't using full throttle... Or something is broken...
11-29-2008, 05:47 PM
#20
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Clutch it!
Try shifting to second with a handful of throttle before vigorously letting out the clutch lever.
Mine wheelies in 5th (with a big tug and a bump in the road) using the clutch.
Believe it or not the RC is harder to lift than the 'Hawk. They were designed to stick to the road, the 'Hawk has long legs up front. Try standing up too.
Try shifting to second with a handful of throttle before vigorously letting out the clutch lever.
Mine wheelies in 5th (with a big tug and a bump in the road) using the clutch.
Believe it or not the RC is harder to lift than the 'Hawk. They were designed to stick to the road, the 'Hawk has long legs up front. Try standing up too.
11-29-2008, 05:49 PM
#21
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So for ROLL-ON wheelies, try the technique I decribed above and you shouldn't have any trouble getting it to raise easily if you want to.
11-29-2008, 06:20 PM
#22
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my m900 ducati, 904cc 2 valves per cyl, 80 hp, will roll on wheelie no problem 1st an 2nd gear. I can get it up in third without using the clutch.
The superhawk has more power but it also has a little more weight. I say 1st and 2nd wheelies will happen, and i weigh 130 lbs
The superhawk has more power but it also has a little more weight. I say 1st and 2nd wheelies will happen, and i weigh 130 lbs
11-29-2008, 08:28 PM
#23
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If you want to FEEL it, do a rolling start in 1st (15 to 20mph) then snap the throttle wide open. Believe me, you will feel it, but be ready for it.
11-30-2008, 10:01 AM
#24
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Like I said, I don't think your experience is that unusual. there are lots of exaggerations as I said, and people have long re-geared their bikes, or do a lot of subtle cluthing they are forgetting about, and of course like most things riding related, people's recollections of their personal wheelie skills are often over-rated. For instance, personally I am faster than rossi around most tracks - that guy is a hack compared to me So for ROLL-ON wheelies, try the technique I decribed above and you shouldn't have any trouble getting it to raise easily if you want to.
So for ROLL-ON wheelies, try the technique I decribed above and you shouldn't have any trouble getting it to raise easily if you want to.
) Mostly cuz I was wondering myself if I did "help" the bike...Sitting back on my ***, little or no weight on the bars, 4k-5k and I open it wide... I have to let off on the throttle in first or it keeps going up (more than possible to loop it...), second is possible but needs a full fist of throttle... 3'rd only felt light'ish, kind of bouncy in front... A small "bounce" in 2'nd and it shoots up like in 1'st... 3'rd needs clutch and bounce...
As I was experimenting (company parking lot) I tried to sit dead still and not "help" the bike... Hand of the clutch lever... sitting upright...
Mine is geared at 16/42 stock is 16/41 so a ~3% difference... Also slight mods to the airbox/jet/bafflectomy... For "internal" comparasion only I had a dyno run at 105 bone stock, and 111.5 after my mods... So that's 3% gear change and 6 bhp over stock... That's a very marginal difference in my experience... Also as below, I have the CBR1000RR front end (measured to be ~15 mm lower than stock) and a 6 mm shim in the rear, making for a more forward geometry...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-30-2008 at 10:07 AM.
11-30-2008, 04:39 PM
#26
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I don't go around doing intentional wheelies, they just happen. Power wheelies in 1st under hard acceleration, or downshifting and grabbing a handful...OK THAT WAS FUN...not realizing I was downshifting into 1st, or coming over a sharp rise...THOSE are my favorite.
I wheelied my first bike unintentionally about 25 years ago, a CX500 modded for canyon racing. I was passing a young couple on a very short straight on a twisty road. I waited for the chance to pass, downshifted and nailed the throttle, again not realizing I was already in 2nd. The front end was at probably at a 30 degree angle as I passed them. Scared the crap out of me, then I wondered what they thought.
My second bike, CB700SC, could wheelie no problem, but I only did it a few times, mostly unintentional.
My BMW R100RS...I never even tried.
Guys with a lot of dirt bike experience seem to be most comfortable with wheelies. I like my clutch and I don't like crashing.
I wheelied my first bike unintentionally about 25 years ago, a CX500 modded for canyon racing. I was passing a young couple on a very short straight on a twisty road. I waited for the chance to pass, downshifted and nailed the throttle, again not realizing I was already in 2nd. The front end was at probably at a 30 degree angle as I passed them. Scared the crap out of me, then I wondered what they thought.
My second bike, CB700SC, could wheelie no problem, but I only did it a few times, mostly unintentional.
My BMW R100RS...I never even tried.
Guys with a lot of dirt bike experience seem to be most comfortable with wheelies. I like my clutch and I don't like crashing.
11-30-2008, 05:39 PM
#27
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I tried it today going home from work (BTW it's getting frigging cold, I'm switching to car now... ) Mostly cuz I was wondering myself if I did "help" the bike...
Sitting back on my ***, little or no weight on the bars, 4k-5k and I open it wide... I have to let off on the throttle in first or it keeps going up (more than possible to loop it...), second is possible but needs a full fist of throttle... 3'rd only felt light'ish, kind of bouncy in front... A small "bounce" in 2'nd and it shoots up like in 1'st... 3'rd needs clutch and bounce...
As I was experimenting (company parking lot) I tried to sit dead still and not "help" the bike... Hand of the clutch lever... sitting upright...
Mine is geared at 16/42 stock is 16/41 so a ~3% difference... Also slight mods to the airbox/jet/bafflectomy... For "internal" comparasion only I had a dyno run at 105 bone stock, and 111.5 after my mods... So that's 3% gear change and 6 bhp over stock... That's a very marginal difference in my experience... Also as below, I have the CBR1000RR front end (measured to be ~15 mm lower than stock) and a 6 mm shim in the rear, making for a more forward geometry...
) Mostly cuz I was wondering myself if I did "help" the bike...Sitting back on my ***, little or no weight on the bars, 4k-5k and I open it wide... I have to let off on the throttle in first or it keeps going up (more than possible to loop it...), second is possible but needs a full fist of throttle... 3'rd only felt light'ish, kind of bouncy in front... A small "bounce" in 2'nd and it shoots up like in 1'st... 3'rd needs clutch and bounce...
As I was experimenting (company parking lot) I tried to sit dead still and not "help" the bike... Hand of the clutch lever... sitting upright...
Mine is geared at 16/42 stock is 16/41 so a ~3% difference... Also slight mods to the airbox/jet/bafflectomy... For "internal" comparasion only I had a dyno run at 105 bone stock, and 111.5 after my mods... So that's 3% gear change and 6 bhp over stock... That's a very marginal difference in my experience... Also as below, I have the CBR1000RR front end (measured to be ~15 mm lower than stock) and a 6 mm shim in the rear, making for a more forward geometry...
Nice test! I'm jealous you can still ride at least. We had 3 inches of snow today. I'll have to wait till spring, but I am positive in second without using clutch/technique the front won't come up. Remember your front end weighs quite a bit less than stock. Maybe mine makes so much power that the rear tire is just spinning
Last edited by cliby; 11-30-2008 at 05:59 PM.
11-30-2008, 09:26 PM
#28
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I don't care about or want wheelies. Like VTRsurfer said "I like my clutch and I don't like crashing". If you claim you can't power wheelie your VTR in first gear, there is something very wrong with your VTR.
11-30-2008, 10:35 PM
#29
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I hate to admit it, but I am also a bit of a wheelie *****. I have been actively practicing getting the front end up, but have yet to ride a narly one out for any distance. First comes up really easy, but I dont know if Im paranoid about looping it or whatever, but I do not get distance. My question is this, other than looping it is there any other danger in wheelies? I cluthced one up in first last week and when the front came down it wasnt straight kinda wobbled for a second. Freaked me out a little.
But wheelies are so damn cool I want to be able to pull one off any time with out fear. (not in traffic of course) Any tips.
But wheelies are so damn cool I want to be able to pull one off any time with out fear. (not in traffic of course) Any tips.
12-01-2008, 03:50 AM
#30
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Stock gearing with Jardine pipes, I could pull the front wheel up in first just about anytime I wanted to. Did it next to a friend just to show off, about 5K, snapped the throttle, front came up, I rolled off to put it down. Easily could've looped it.
With the 16/43 gearing, it jumps even more. Did that after it was too cool out to really feel comfortable playing with it.
With the 16/43 gearing, it jumps even more. Did that after it was too cool out to really feel comfortable playing with it.
