new gearing experience
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 395
From: Columbus, OH
new gearing experience
I don't want to get another gearing war started haha. Just sharing my experience. Went with a 16-43 setup and new chain. 530. Could'nt seem to pull a second gear wheelie and the chain and sprockets were toast so i decided on that setup. After searching the forum(yes, i used the search) the swap was cake. There were a few things that popped up that i had not read but common sense prevailed. I didnt want 15-43 or 16-44 just because in essence 2nd gear would be like riding around in 1st gear. Now, i can pull the front wheel in second but not as easy as i would like. Takes effort. I guess i thought i could hammer the throttle and pull the wheel. Maybe i was wrong. When i put the devil cans on i did a carb shim and all that mess but i never got it completely right but it was pasable. I think that will be the ultimate solution to get maximum torque out of the bottom end. Air/fuel mixture and shimming is a pain but hey, if you dont like all that get a gixxer like everyone else right? Other than that the thing is a rocketship. It definitely accelerates quicker through third gear. Havent had it out to test beyond that lol. All in all im happy with the swap. Just sharing a little experience. Now to beat up on my two brothers and friend Jeff who have inline fours in the twisties
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Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,631
From: Montreal
FWIW, there's a BIG difference (like @ 4%) between 15-43 and 16-44, the latter being virtually identical to 15-41 (or about 2% lower than the 16-43 you went with).
Glad you're happy with your choice.
cheers
Glad you're happy with your choice.
cheers
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
2d Gear Wheelie
Notice in the sig below that with the stock pipes I get no 1st gear wheelie, 2d notwithstanding. But with the Jardines and with or without noise inserts it will loft in 1st at 3k rpm easily. But in 2d at 3k, no and I haven't tried at high rpm.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
16/41 is stock ratio, using a 530 chain...
A tip, this bike eats cheap sprockets and chains, so get steel sprockets and a quality chain... Alu sprockets won't last more than a season, not even that long is certain...
You can use a 520 drive pack, but then the quality is even more crucial, as the parts needs to cope with the torque...
A tip, this bike eats cheap sprockets and chains, so get steel sprockets and a quality chain... Alu sprockets won't last more than a season, not even that long is certain...
You can use a 520 drive pack, but then the quality is even more crucial, as the parts needs to cope with the torque...
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
And only marginally lighter than an aluminium core with steel teeth... That will last as long as the steel, and be as light as the alu... Only downside is the cost... Which if you calculate the cost for the 3-4 sprockets you would wear out during it's lifetime is probably going to be more expensive...
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Besides, no the difference between a steel rear sprocket and a alu one isn't even close to a Kg... Keep in mind that the chain stays the same, and i seriously doubt you are considering using a alu front sprocket? That will have a ridiculously short lifespan, and no measurable gains... So with those weights constant, and the weight of a sprocket less than a Kg to begin with... 3-4 Hg perhaps, not more...
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Back Marker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 219
From: Prague - Czech
Besides, no the difference between a steel rear sprocket and a alu one isn't even close to a Kg... Keep in mind that the chain stays the same, and i seriously doubt you are considering using a alu front sprocket? That will have a ridiculously short lifespan, and no measurable gains... So with those weights constant, and the weight of a sprocket less than a Kg to begin with... 3-4 Hg perhaps, not more...
Just for curiosity, renthal front sprocket 520 16 (steel with lightening holes) 190g, normal steel 530 sprocket 280g.
Last edited by Stephan; May 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Unless you're running on the track and need every possible advantage I don't see the point in aluminum vs. steel. The constant replacement cost is going to be significantly more not to mention as the sprokets wear faster they'll stretch the chain faster as well. On the street I'd always recomend running steel as they will have a significantly longer life.
As for wanting the front end to come up in 2nd I'd recomend just practicing shifting with the front end in the air. And just practice getting the wheel off the ground in 2nd. I know it can be done as I've seen guys do it. Just takes technique rather than just powering it up.
As for wanting the front end to come up in 2nd I'd recomend just practicing shifting with the front end in the air. And just practice getting the wheel off the ground in 2nd. I know it can be done as I've seen guys do it. Just takes technique rather than just powering it up.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
From: North
I went up 3 teeth on the rear sprocket to 44 teeth, and kept the countershaft sprocket stock at 16 teeth. Great improvement!
Feels more lively and gruntier, pulling monos is easier, and it gets going north of a buck-seventy! Never did that with the 41T rear sprocket.
It's amazing, I gained about 20 perceived rwhp.
Feels more lively and gruntier, pulling monos is easier, and it gets going north of a buck-seventy! Never did that with the 41T rear sprocket.
It's amazing, I gained about 20 perceived rwhp.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 442
From: Little Rock, AR
Y'all should see if Ironman will make one for the SuperHawk. Their dirtbike sprockets wear like "iron", and are nearly as light as AL. They're usually warranted also. Do a Google search...they make LOTS of dirtbike sprockets, and are breaking into the street market soon.
Just a thought.............
Just a thought.............
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
You're getting into stunt gearing territory! You should drop the front to 15t and go up one more in the rear and then you can start the bike in 2nd, that way you don't have go past that pesky "neutral" all the time. Also, you'll be able to tow a manatee if the need ever arises. In a small aquarium of course. Just towing it on the road would be cruel. And gross.
All in good fun, to each their own!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 395
From: Columbus, OH
Haha you guys are hilarious. Just for conversation purpose I have gotten very good at pointing the headlight skyward in second and now and then can hit the third gear shift on one wheel. 16-43 was plenty.
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
For the engine, it kind of depends which one we are talking about... I have more than one, and in varous stages of tune... All of which have been in my main bike, on the road at some point, now though I'm building a bike for the track, since I cant justify breaking stuff i can't find spare parts for when playing...
The one currently in my roadbike is the "exotic one" with mostly parts that are getting hard to find... It's got the whole nine yards, with OS pistons, cams, valves, the works... And it's basically it, the block is stock, the rest is mostly swapped out... It's been on a dyno, and produces a tad over 130 bhp to the wheel... Reliably all day, easy to ride...
The engine that's meant for a race bike, it's got less hard to find parts, but mostly replicated parts, and the same applies really, the block is stock... Around 155 bhp to the wheel... Reliability is still mostly untested, at those numbers VTR engines are known to misbehave somewhat... And I wouldn't say it's "easy to ride", as it's a bit touchy coming on or off the throttle to abruptly...
I also have two spare engines that are "mostly stock"... And an SP2 engine that I'm working on for if the VTR won't keep up with the local Duc's... It about to be supercharged, when I get the time to finish it...
Specific enough? or should I make an even more specific list?
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
That's getting there. Would love to get it in the 120hp range. The most I've seen on the dyno around here was in teh 101-102hp range but those were pretty much stock engines with a full system and maybe a K&N. The thought of a turbo has crossed my mind and I think that'd be sweet but my thoughts there are mainly how much HP will the rods and crank take? I see you have corillo rods, are those something they make or that you had to have custom made? I didn't see them listed in their book when I looked earlier today.
Senior Member
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 293
Turbo's hit a lot less hard than nitrous/boring/stroking etc. It's usually getting greedy with boost that kills things, without having appropriately lowered CR or intercooling. Then you usually break ring lands on fragile cast stock pistons. At least, that's how it usually works out in the Bandit/ZRX worlds. Forged pistons alleviate that. Though you could build a pretty mild turbo system with no intercooling and stock pistons and still easily put out 150hp at the rear wheel. It's something I may do somewhere down the road.
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Seems I saw somewhere that 120hp was about the max on stock rods. My only fear with forged pistons is longevity. It may not even be an issue on these but in my truck I cracked a forged piston in two with a big nitrous hit making 806hp on the dyno and when I looked into Forged pistons they said the life expectancy is about 20K miles due to not being able to put a steel insert in the upper ring and the ring beating the ringlands to death. That's on a low RPM diesel though so this could be completely different.
Senior Member
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 293
If you are gonna make big power out of a motor, you're gonna break **** 
That said, 150hp out of a 1000cc motor isn't crazy power, especially when you turbo it. You aren't putting larger heavier pistons in, and your piston speed isn't increasing at all if you don't stroke it. Coming on boost isn't violent (from the engine's point of view at least) the way that spraying it is. You could probably make 150hp out of a VTR on 8-10lbs of boost, and as long as you aren't flogging it all the way up SR509 at full throttle, have it live quite happily for a long time. The 120hp number for the rods seems awfully arbitrary to me, and is probably derived from race teams building high comp/stroked/bored engines. Since stock bandit 1200 rods are good to ~300hp, I would be shocked if you couldn't coax a VTR rod to 150hp under boost.
Though now we've totally derailed this thread.
That said, 150hp out of a 1000cc motor isn't crazy power, especially when you turbo it. You aren't putting larger heavier pistons in, and your piston speed isn't increasing at all if you don't stroke it. Coming on boost isn't violent (from the engine's point of view at least) the way that spraying it is. You could probably make 150hp out of a VTR on 8-10lbs of boost, and as long as you aren't flogging it all the way up SR509 at full throttle, have it live quite happily for a long time. The 120hp number for the rods seems awfully arbitrary to me, and is probably derived from race teams building high comp/stroked/bored engines. Since stock bandit 1200 rods are good to ~300hp, I would be shocked if you couldn't coax a VTR rod to 150hp under boost. Though now we've totally derailed this thread.
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Y'all should see if Ironman will make one for the SuperHawk. Their dirtbike sprockets wear like "iron", and are nearly as light as AL. They're usually warranted also. Do a Google search...they make LOTS of dirtbike sprockets, and are breaking into the street market soon.
Just a thought.............
Just a thought.............
SUPERSPROX USA
Been riding mine since I got home......love the -1+2, and new RK x ring chain, Renthal front sprocket and Stealth rear are doing great.
Last edited by E.Marquez; May 29, 2012 at 05:33 PM.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
No need to see, just get a SuperSprox Stealth for the SH.
SUPERSPROX USA
Been riding mine since I got home......love the -1+2, and new RK x ring chain, Renthal front sprocket and Stealth rear are doing great.
SUPERSPROX USA
Been riding mine since I got home......love the -1+2, and new RK x ring chain, Renthal front sprocket and Stealth rear are doing great.
