View Poll Results: Would you like custom long carbon fiber velocity stacks for around $250 + shipping?
Yes
6
16.67%
No
30
83.33%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll
Long Carbon Fiber Velocity Stacks
05-04-2009, 12:45 PM
#91
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,033
well Ill be making a carbon set for my bike. But they will be different cause my airbox design.
I might make some out of fiberglass for a good price.
I was at VIR a while back and I was looking at a bad *** Porsche can am car. Its flat 6 had translucent fiberglass velocity stacks.
I might make some out of fiberglass for a good price.
I was at VIR a while back and I was looking at a bad *** Porsche can am car. Its flat 6 had translucent fiberglass velocity stacks.
05-04-2009, 03:20 PM
#92
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
I know why these little guys are so expensive now lol 
. The profile that makes up the large "inlet" is a quadruple compound radii! Similar to an airfoil in shape. 
If you are thinking of making these out of CF, plastic, FG, etc then you need to have to right profile and volume + CNC or you are going to hinder performance out of the range you are seeking. Without CFD, or A LOT of trial and error R&D, I have no idea how long it took someone to come up with the math for the profile but it is interesting!
Below are two screen shots from today. I will send FLO his part back tomorrow as I got a little tied up with work. All I need to do now is finish with detailing the rest of the drawing and it's done. The blue and green screen shot is a direct comparison of my 3D model sitting over the 3D scanned model of the actual part. I fine tuned my dimensions until I matched the actual part profile very closely (within .0013 deviation). The other screen shot is a cutaway of the 3D model. You can see the complex compound radius is not something you can guess-timate at and call it a day. The volume, profile and height are all factors that make up the "tune" of the stack.
. The profile that makes up the large "inlet" is a quadruple compound radii! Similar to an airfoil in shape. If you are thinking of making these out of CF, plastic, FG, etc then you need to have to right profile and volume + CNC or you are going to hinder performance out of the range you are seeking. Without CFD, or A LOT of trial and error R&D, I have no idea how long it took someone to come up with the math for the profile but it is interesting!
Below are two screen shots from today. I will send FLO his part back tomorrow as I got a little tied up with work. All I need to do now is finish with detailing the rest of the drawing and it's done. The blue and green screen shot is a direct comparison of my 3D model sitting over the 3D scanned model of the actual part. I fine tuned my dimensions until I matched the actual part profile very closely (within .0013 deviation). The other screen shot is a cutaway of the 3D model. You can see the complex compound radius is not something you can guess-timate at and call it a day. The volume, profile and height are all factors that make up the "tune" of the stack.
Last edited by haknslash; 05-04-2009 at 03:49 PM.
05-04-2009, 04:18 PM
#95
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,033
Here Is how Ill do it. Ill make a wooden duplicate in my lathe. Wood is easy to tweak the shape. Im essentially making a wooden piece that will fit inside the velocity stack perfectly.
This wooden plug will serve as a mold that I can create carbon fiber and fibergalss velocity stacks from.
This wooden plug will serve as a mold that I can create carbon fiber and fibergalss velocity stacks from.
05-04-2009, 05:16 PM
#97
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
It would be interesting to see the effects of various surface finishes. Thinking of how port and polish is critical to not having too rough of a finish but also not too "slick" of a finish. It's something I'd like to experiment with in CFD. I get a headache just thinking of how to build the analysis up and what all would be involved.
Yup wood is your friend for making plugs . I got my taste of making plugs when I used to do custom car/boat installations. I have a love/hate relationship with FG lol.
Drawing will be out soon so keep a look out.
Thanks. Glad to offer some help.
Here Is how Ill do it. Ill make a wooden duplicate in my lathe. Wood is easy to tweak the shape. Im essentially making a wooden piece that will fit inside the velocity stack perfectly.
This wooden plug will serve as a mold that I can create carbon fiber and fibergalss velocity stacks from.
This wooden plug will serve as a mold that I can create carbon fiber and fibergalss velocity stacks from.
. I got my taste of making plugs when I used to do custom car/boat installations. I have a love/hate relationship with FG lol. Drawing will be out soon so keep a look out.
Thanks. Glad to offer some help.
Last edited by haknslash; 05-04-2009 at 05:24 PM.
05-04-2009, 05:48 PM
#98
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 1,548
since you guys are going to all this effort before the act, please, please somebody do a dyno before and after or swap stacks on the same day/run please. would be nice to actually see the effects of all this.
05-04-2009, 06:40 PM
#99
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
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Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
I have found my paper on bellmouth design, it's a PDF, I'll share with those interested.
I was not SAE, but very interesting
Oh and there's a pic of a CF velocity stack, ****, pure stack ****
The elliptical profile seem to be the very best of all design, even superior to the aerofoil.
I was not SAE, but very interesting
Oh and there's a pic of a CF velocity stack, ****, pure stack ****
The elliptical profile seem to be the very best of all design, even superior to the aerofoil.
Last edited by gboezio; 05-04-2009 at 07:06 PM.
05-04-2009, 08:42 PM
#101
Senior Member
SuperSport
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The file size is too big for the forum dump me your email I'll send it to those interested tomorrow morning.
There is no measure blueprints, but lots of images and graphs.
4 big PDF pages 1.67 Mb
There is no measure blueprints, but lots of images and graphs.
4 big PDF pages 1.67 Mb
05-04-2009, 09:00 PM
#102
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,033
05-05-2009, 09:08 AM
#105
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
I have a contact with a chap who does CNC work (did fabbed a lot of parts on a special snowmobile that hit 210 mph on radar, and should be at Bonneville this fall) so if I can get a hold of a print I can see what he can do with it..... Man I can't wait!!!!!!!!!
05-05-2009, 10:09 AM
#106
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
mikstr the stack has two "ears" to mount with. No need for all that material.
to those wanting prints:
Dimensions in metric or standard or both?
What format do you guys want (PDF, DWG, JPG, BMP, etc)?
to those wanting prints:
Dimensions in metric or standard or both?
What format do you guys want (PDF, DWG, JPG, BMP, etc)?
05-05-2009, 10:16 AM
#107
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
My only concern is how the ears will be worked in (but, then again, I am not very knowledgeable in CNC fabricating).
If I may, would like them in both, in whatever format is easiest (can't go wrong with jpg or pdf). Will PM you my e-mail.
How do you guys want to proceed with getting them produced? Should we get some quotes and work from there on a group build? I want to add that I would be extremely open to getting Truck to build them. My only concern is the accuracy (said with all due respect to his exceptional fabricating skills, given the complexity of the shapes involved (ie. multiple-radius design), I worry that getting "close approximations" could compromise the end result). Of course, I may be wrong too.....
Also, we should look at compensating Rick and Hak for their work and shipping IMO.
If I may, would like them in both, in whatever format is easiest (can't go wrong with jpg or pdf). Will PM you my e-mail.
How do you guys want to proceed with getting them produced? Should we get some quotes and work from there on a group build? I want to add that I would be extremely open to getting Truck to build them. My only concern is the accuracy (said with all due respect to his exceptional fabricating skills, given the complexity of the shapes involved (ie. multiple-radius design), I worry that getting "close approximations" could compromise the end result). Of course, I may be wrong too.....
Also, we should look at compensating Rick and Hak for their work and shipping IMO.
Last edited by mikstr; 05-05-2009 at 10:39 AM.
05-05-2009, 12:23 PM
#108
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
What I will do is keep the ears there and if people want to have them made, just get with the machinist.
If you want to save money on the part then buy some round stock large enoguh to give you room to mount. Have the machinist make you two holes (I prefer slots) in the flange and it would save you money on machining. That is why FLO's stack has that large diameter flange is because that is the nominal diameter of the raw round stock material they used. They kept cost down by not having to go and remove a good bit of material by CNC lathe. It is close as they barely were able to have enough material on the diameter to drill the mounting holes.
I will leave that decision up to you guys and your machinist on what is best "for you" to go about the mounting method either flange or ears. The ears are more "sexy" to me but I understand everyones budgets and/or "hook-ups" are going to be different. The math is there on the drawing to give you the data you'll need to know to cross reference for some round stock.
Also for the multi-radius inlet, I am not sure what surface would be best to identify where the centers of the radii are. For now on the drawing only the radius are called out and the centers are not specified in space. Some machinist prefer baseline dimensioning while others prefer of the centerline or other surface. Again if you have CAD/CAM software you are fine. If someone is making these without software then they will need to know where the radius centers are in space and enter them into CNC machine. Just tell me where you want to locate the centers from in the PM and I will make you an additional sheet with the centers called out.
PM me for the prints (in 11x17 B size PDF) and I'll email them to those interested. If your machinist has CAD/CAM software then I can provide a STEP or IGES 3D model. Model was created symmetrically at 0,0,0 so it's good to go for the end user.
Have fun guys! +1 on the dyno results before and after
If you want to save money on the part then buy some round stock large enoguh to give you room to mount. Have the machinist make you two holes (I prefer slots) in the flange and it would save you money on machining. That is why FLO's stack has that large diameter flange is because that is the nominal diameter of the raw round stock material they used. They kept cost down by not having to go and remove a good bit of material by CNC lathe. It is close as they barely were able to have enough material on the diameter to drill the mounting holes.
I will leave that decision up to you guys and your machinist on what is best "for you" to go about the mounting method either flange or ears. The ears are more "sexy" to me but I understand everyones budgets and/or "hook-ups" are going to be different. The math is there on the drawing to give you the data you'll need to know to cross reference for some round stock.
Also for the multi-radius inlet, I am not sure what surface would be best to identify where the centers of the radii are. For now on the drawing only the radius are called out and the centers are not specified in space. Some machinist prefer baseline dimensioning while others prefer of the centerline or other surface. Again if you have CAD/CAM software you are fine. If someone is making these without software then they will need to know where the radius centers are in space and enter them into CNC machine. Just tell me where you want to locate the centers from in the PM and I will make you an additional sheet with the centers called out.
PM me for the prints (in 11x17 B size PDF) and I'll email them to those interested. If your machinist has CAD/CAM software then I can provide a STEP or IGES 3D model. Model was created symmetrically at 0,0,0 so it's good to go for the end user.
Have fun guys! +1 on the dyno results before and after
Last edited by haknslash; 05-05-2009 at 01:30 PM.
05-05-2009, 01:03 PM
#109
ole dirty bastard
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my house
Posts: 975
05-05-2009, 01:37 PM
#110
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
Ok, a real reach here but if we will "likely have to drop the jet sizes slightly with these stacks" then this should be the perfect accessory to compliment the K&N I put in, right? Currently I perceive a slight stumble at 2500 - 3000 rpm at part throttle steady speed, most noticeable in first gear at parking lot speeds. My thought was (and from reading the tons of experience on this forum) that I would need to rejet or shim.
Maybe these stacks perfectly counterbalance the K&N's added flow.
Maybe these stacks perfectly counterbalance the K&N's added flow.
05-05-2009, 06:20 PM
#112
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,120
I ordered an OEM long stack today, something I've thought about doing for years. I presume the OEM long stack will fit in the airbox under the OEM air filter no problem. When I remove the tank soon to check & change the plugs (I know its not necessary to do so, as lifting the tank at the rear is enough), I'll install the long in front. I went back to the OE 175/178 mains & 45 pilots and had the needles shimmed .040", so I'm leaner (for better mileage) anyway and will see if I can tell the difference and report back. While I'm at it I'm going to check the TPS again too now that I have my spare set swapped-in and the idle & carbs synced again. But they were so close hand set I barely had to touch the balance and just turned up the idle a bit.
05-05-2009, 09:48 PM
#113
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,033
I think this would be the best way to accuratly duplicate them, Budget friendly.
Make an undersized and oversized slug. Find some thinwall tubing and press the slugs together.
Have the bolt flanges cut with a waterjet and weld them on.
Make an undersized and oversized slug. Find some thinwall tubing and press the slugs together.
Have the bolt flanges cut with a waterjet and weld them on.
05-06-2009, 05:08 AM
#114
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
I made autocad drawings (v.2009) of both versions. I figured that would be easiest for everyone since it would allow you to locate the centers of the radii. I don't have a host to put them on so PM me or post your email and I'll send it.
05-06-2009, 05:22 AM
#115
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 179
05-06-2009, 05:41 AM
#116
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
05-06-2009, 08:29 AM
#119
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bham, AL
Posts: 702
HAHA! Well happy birthday my man! 
The ear version will be more expensive but if the supplier uses a round stock of 4" diameter, or something no less than 3 7/8" and drills holes rather than slots @ 3 1/2" distance center to center, it will be much cheaper.
The ear version will be more expensive but if the supplier uses a round stock of 4" diameter, or something no less than 3 7/8" and drills holes rather than slots @ 3 1/2" distance center to center, it will be much cheaper.
05-06-2009, 08:29 AM
#120
Fastest Color
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lithia, FL
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