Grizz

What is the best bang for the buck mod in order to make the hawk have more boost? I don't really care about top speed but I do miss the "hold the hell on" boost my old GSXR had. Is there anything I can do to get even close to that crazy power??

drew_c14

Sprockets are the way to go if you're not really worried about top speed. Try going down one in the front first, and then go from there if that isn't enough.

cliby

nope. there aren't easy HP mods beyond losing the easy weight (exhausts especially, but you did that). Wheels I suppose next would make as much difference as engine work and also have a handling benefit. You can spend a lot of $ and effort for adding even 10 more HP though.

simple regearing certainly would make it feel more powerful.

Grizz

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliby

nope. there aren't easy HP mods beyond losing the easy weight (exhausts especially, but you did that). Wheels I suppose next would make as much difference as engine work and also have a handling benefit. You can spend a lot of $ and effort for adding even 10 more HP though.

I really don't want to get into lots of reconfiguring in order to shave weight off the bike. Also, I don’t want to dump a significant amount of money into it either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew_c14

Sprockets are the way to go if you're not really worried about top speed. Try going down one in the front first, and then go from there if that isn't enough.

What kind of effect does changing the sprockets have? Does changing it by what I assume to be one tooth really make that much of a difference??

killer5280

-1 in the front and +2 on the rear make a very noticeable difference. The Hawk is never going to be a GSX-R, however, and won't have that hit of power that inline fours have.

Grizz

Ok, so I know this is going to maybe sound dumb but how does this concept actually work? Before I do this, I need to understand what actually is meant when talking about a 530 conversion. What does changing the front sproket by one tooth ony do as apposed to the rear or just changing them both? Do I need a new chain or can I use the existing one.

Also, how do I tell what set up I currently have? I purchased my bike second hand and have found a few mods he forgot to tell me about.

Circuit_Burner

Ive never understood why people always want to castrate the top end speed for this perceived gain in bottom end.
back when we raced MX all the time we would be one of the few that geared up a tooth on the front sprocket.
Everyone else was always dropping a tooth , thinking that helps them get a good start. I would start in the 250 class with my taller gearing in 1st gear instead of 2nd.
I would regularly roost everyone to the 1st turn too.

On the Hawk, a gear up on the front increases top end considerably, saves gas, and takes nothing from the bottom that I can tell.

Honestly, if your superhawk wont pull a gsxr, your engine is out of tune.
They can sound mean and loud but loose many ponies through poor tuning.

Where the power really is ...
You really want to know the single biggest HP gain you can get from a single operation?
Get the right cams (uhh, dont look in some book either) with the right grind.
Stock cams that are in good shape can be sent to a machine shop who have competent staff for a re-grind.
I had mine lobed at some unspecified measurement ( the shop owner knows the grind ) and gained at least 10 HP or more. ( freaking pulls a lot harder just by feel alone )
The engine sounded distinctly different after this. Obviously the increased duration was the reason.
Not many shops are even capable of grinding cams anymore, but they are out there... and the ones who still know how are probably pretty good at what they do.
Cam grinding is a one-way street, so thats why its important to do it right and not experiment wildly with your only set of cams.

The next valve adjustment I do, the cams are going to the shop again for slightly more duration ( in my opinion it should be about perfect then )

Grizz

Interesting post, thanks for that, it gave me allot to think about. The only reason I am willing at this point to sacrifice SOME top end is I am not a skilled enough rider to be there right now. Short visits to 150ish are fine on the straights but until I get more seat time and learn the bike better, that kind of top end is an illusion. I am planning to attend a race school later in the summer to gain some better skills on the track first.

As for pulling a GIXXER, I am sure I probably could but as I said I am still learning. Right now, for whatever reason, I seem to ride it more like it's a cruiser with the occasional burst of speed thrown in. I think it's because of the V-twin rumble...it does not have that sewing machine inline 4 sound so I subconsciously equate it with a slower cruiser type machine….not a sport performance bike.

In the end, I would absolutely LOVE to get the kind of pull my KX250 has but I am also not willing to do a ton to stuff to achieve it at this point. I don’t want to eliminate any option for the future until I completely decide not only what type of rider I want to be but gain the proper skills to truly back it up.

Circuit_Burner

Yea its probably running on the weak side, but with the torque and that sound, its hard to think that theres more to that motor sometimes, lol.
Theres A LOT more to that motor, trust me.

Grizz

I guess I'm just going to have to wait until I get to the track to truly push it and see what it can do. Also, the instructor said he would take me on a 2up with my bike to show me what it can do if I was interested. I'm not too sure I would be confortable having someone else in control with me on the back though...

RK1

Circuit Burner;

What you're saying about gearing might make sense for a lot of bikes but:

The VTR comes already geared taller than anything else in its class. It won't pull red line (169 mph) in 6th as it is.

I went +2 on the rear sprocket which put final gearing on par with the SV and TL Suzuki, Aprilias etc. Feels better around town, accelerates a smidge harder through the gears and especially roll ons. It isn't a giant change, its less than 5% but I can feel it.

Going up a tooth on the front sprocket might improve highway mileage very slightly but will actually lower top speed in 6th gear.

Grizz

I'm not really concerned about the gas...obviously within reason. I'd just like to have that feeling like I am taking off like a shot on a true rocket!! That being said, I am also not entirely convinced it may not just be me. I find at times I catch myself riding in the 2500 to 3000 RPM range. I know at that point I am missing all the power it has to offer.

RK1

Grizz;

Just curious- Which year/size gsxr did you have?

Grizz

I had the 05 750 anniversary addition. It was a great bike!!

RK1

http://www.deeknow.com/dyno/index.ph...action=Dyno+It

I don't know. From idle to 9500 rpm, the VTR makes a lot more power than the gsxr. After that the VTR signs off and the gsxr goes nuts.

I much prefer the power characteristics of the VTR. I think to get anything like a 128 HP high end hit out of a VTR you've got to spend a whole lot of money.

PS I don't mean "I don't know" about the gixxer being a great bike. Just that to get more power out of the gsxr you've got to rev the **** out of it.

nothing

-1F +2R you will hold on tight wheelie 1-3 no problems

mikstr

Replacing the short front OEM velocity stack with a longer unit (same as fitted on rear cylinder) will help boost your bottom end and mid-range abit (albeit at teh cost of about 2 hp on top). Cheap and easy mod for real-world riding. A shorter-throw throttle (RC45, for example) also quickens response slightly.

Lightening the flywheel will also speed up engine response and give the bike more of an instantaneous hit.

Beyond that (assuming you already have an exhaust and jet kit), you will have to get the wallet out....

runrowdy

The first time I let my friends (mostly I4 and V4 riders) ride the Hawk I always warn them to look at the speedo once in awhile. They always come back and are amazed at how fast they were going. My point is the Hawks speed can be deceiving. With the low rpm's and good ergos it's easy to get carried away and end up going faster than you thought you were.

mikstr

yep. I must confess to being quite disappointed the first few times I rode my VTR as it didn`t seem to have that frantic rush I had come to know and love on I4`s. The power delivery is altogether different but that doesn`t mean it`s slow.

malahhaor

That's what i was confused about, i could not understand how you can say VTR does not have the umfff.
You are used to the turbo spool up feel that I4 has. I have an 86 GSXeR 750 and it feels like someone added 100 ponies after 6K RPM, but VTR still has way more go.
To me VTR has way more umff. (I'm not comparing to new 1000 CBRs or Gixxers) It has all the power all the time and I don't need to keep it at 9 Grand all the time.
This thing pops a wheelie at 3K rpm. My gixxer tech starts at 3K rpm…..

killer5280

-1, +2 changes top speed of the VTR very little, even though it really does help with acceleration. The stock Hawk tops out in 5th, as RK1 said, while shortening the gearing allows it to pull more revs in 6th. Does anyone ride at 150+ mph very often anyway? I sure don't.
Other than making the speedometer and odometer (even more) inaccurate I can't think of anything I don't like about the shorter gearing.

vtrktm

Further to the other comments....

Given that exhaust you have on it just want to check that you have rejetted it. The VTR is very finicky to jetting and temperature changes so make sure that is done properly by a tuner or at least use one of the kits like Factory Pro.

Use the stock air filter for best low-mid drive and remove the backfire screen on it for about 1 hp on top.

I've found the best "expensive" modification is to go with high compression pistons worth a good 5hp and a lot of mid-range snap. I have a set of mildly used pistons for sale if you are or anyone is interested.

AB

Grizz

I honestly have no idea, I would assume it was done. I purchased the bike in March with the mods already complete. He did supply the original exhaust with it as well. As I have virtually just started riding it, I am now trying to figure out exactly what was done. Unfortunately, I am no longer in contact with the previous owner so it is impossible to check.

Hotbrakes

Gearing down is great for the street. Like you said no one really hits 150+ all that often so having 4 gears to choose from instead of 3 when keeping it under 80mph on the street keeps things smoother. My RC51 is -1 up front which is all it needed to let me ride on the street in higher gears than 3rd.

As far as the lack of snap compared to an I4, well that is the beauty of this fine nimble sport twin. Anyone can go fast in a straight line, it takes skills to apply that power to the ground in a turn. The smooth twin does it effortlessly so carrying speed around the track is much easier and less scary.

Grizz

True and I am starting to realize that. I spent some time today riding around while consciously staying above 3500 RPM range and found there is allot more snap at 4+. I think overall, I just need to stop riding it like it’s a cruiser at 2500 to 3000 RPM despite its sound.

RK1

Grizz;

Jeez man. 2500 rpm is worse than Harley territory. It's more like John Deere territory. Don't do it in 1st 'cause you'll land on your head, but go full throttle through the higher gears a few times, shifting at 9000-10000. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Grizz

You're right I do need to do this and I think tomorrow will be the day I take it to near redline. Granted I'm still learning the bike but I've yet to exceed ~6000 RPM yet.

Circuit_Burner

If you lug engines around its very harmful to them.
You wear the con-rod bearings and the cylinders a lot more chugging it because the oil pressure is lower.
Let engines find their happy spot by letting them wind up to the required load and seeing where the minimal throttle opening is. It will have loads more oil pressure, and the loads on the bearings will be much less. ( = longer life )

Grizz

I guess I'm kinda giving the wrong impression to a degree. It's not like I would constantly ride at that RPM, I just forund that sometimes while I was coasting through traffic I would let them get too low. As soon as I realized it though I would gear down immediately to compensate instead of hitting the throttle.

I think I've basically ironed this issue out though by just becoming a more aggressive rider overall. As I said, I've only been on this bike literally 7 or 8 times since I purchased it so I was still getting used to it. An opportunity just came up for me to go to the track and really push it next month so I am really looking forward to being sheriff free so to speak.

Circuit_Burner

Understood.
No one can help lugging a horse like a superhawk in traffic, but you know what I mean.
I dont spin the motor any faster than it calls for at any given time.
If a lot of power isnt needed, its coasting or almost coasting ( just not lugging it )

An oil pressure guage would make a hell of an instrument addition.