Flo-Commander, to do or not to do
06-24-2009, 07:25 AM
#1
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SuperSport
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Eagle, ID.
Posts: 599
Flo-Commander, to do or not to do
I started doing some research on the Flo-Commander for my Superhawk and I would like to hear from those members that are running this setup what their thoughts are as far as performance, setup, etc.
I found that the Flo-Commander site lists the unit at $134.00 whereas Exotic Bike is selling it for $119.00. There is also an on the fly adjustment that gets mounted near/on the steering yoke that cost $88.00.
Anyway, I am interested in hearing from members that are using this and the pros and cons of the unit.
I found that the Flo-Commander site lists the unit at $134.00 whereas Exotic Bike is selling it for $119.00. There is also an on the fly adjustment that gets mounted near/on the steering yoke that cost $88.00.
Anyway, I am interested in hearing from members that are using this and the pros and cons of the unit.
06-24-2009, 07:55 AM
#2
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MotoGP
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Hi Patrick,
I have been running one for five years now and have nothing but good things to say about it. Its greatest asset is that it allows jetting to be changed at the turn of a screw. I personally would not buy the remote adjuster as you would likely never use it anyhow (given that it takes all of about ten seconds to pull over adn effect a change anyhow).
Also, I would like to add that he installation instructions are clear and easy to use and are actually specific to the VTR (imagine that!).
I have been running one for five years now and have nothing but good things to say about it. Its greatest asset is that it allows jetting to be changed at the turn of a screw. I personally would not buy the remote adjuster as you would likely never use it anyhow (given that it takes all of about ten seconds to pull over adn effect a change anyhow).
Also, I would like to add that he installation instructions are clear and easy to use and are actually specific to the VTR (imagine that!).
06-24-2009, 09:41 AM
#6
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You guys are gojng to force me to take some shots!!! Bastiges! IN the interim, the screw is accessible through a hole in the clutch side of the airbox, directly under where the tank arcs upward to expose the side of the box underneath (hole in the side of the box is sealed with a grommet to help preserve the seal)
In so far as the workings of the F-C, the manufacturer's site (www.flo-commander.com) does a good job at explaining how it works.
In so far as the workings of the F-C, the manufacturer's site (www.flo-commander.com) does a good job at explaining how it works.
06-24-2009, 12:17 PM
#10
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SuperSport
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Location: Eagle, ID.
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Here is a picture of the Superhawk setup
It can be viewed at, http://www.flo-commander.com/
Here is the write-up on how the Flo-Commander works:
Also air moving around in the air box, gives different pressures to each of the four carbs , causing them to run way out of synchronization, resulting in inconsistent, uneven, erratic power.
The Flo-Commander takes all fuel air circuits, from the MAIN AIR JET LOCATION, (via our tubing adapters, and tubing), and routes them all into one location, so that each carb gets exactly the same amount of air all the time. The result is much smoother transition areas I previously talked about as well as all other areas being enhanced as well. The icing on the cake is being able to adjust the amount of air you are letting into the system, thus you can meter the air/fuel mixture, from one location, without doing anything to the carbs. And the system can even be installed without having to go into or removing the carbs at all, under normal circumstances.
The Flo-Commander ties/blends each of the carburetor's fuel to air mixtures to one, Thus eliminating the results of uneven air pressures around the carb air jets causing the multiple fuel/air mixtures of the diff. carbs to thus be much better synchronized through-out the entire RPM range (approx. 3000 to red-line or 1/16 - 1/8 throttle position to W.O.T.) instead of just at idle. You adjust the fuel/air mixture of all the carbs at once by adjusting the thumbscrew to add or limit the air going into the main circuit. The carbs in which we remove the main air-jet to install the tubing adapter have a carefully sized and shaped restriction inside the tubing adapter. We use this, and use the same restrictions already in place (on the carbs we just press the adapter down over the air-jet), to ensure that even if the flo-com. adjustment is opened way up it won't be dangerously lean. When opening it all the way, it does allow a certain amount more air through (to go slightly leaner in the mixture) because even though the restriction is the same size, the other effects such as air velocity & flow, in the tubing, allow / enable it. You then have a more broad range of adjustment.
The first sought after, and now acquired goal, is smoother circuit-to-circuit transition areas, as well as much better synchronization. The next sought after and acquired goal is being able to adjust (to a certain degree) multiple carburetors from one point.
End result; more TQ & HP, a more smooth and predictable power curve, convenience of tuning, the flo-c. will aid in determining where your jet size should be, if you make radical engine mods, while allowing the finer adjusting to be done with the unit itself. How much power you gain will vary , but, we have seen averages of 2 or 3 in a few areas, up to 10 or 12 and higher in others. An over all average gain in a particular situation, as long as the installer of the Flo-Commander at least average skills as far as a conscientious mechanic, and (DEPENDING ON WHAT WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE & HOW CORRECTLY IT WAS DONE) has been somewhere between 4 & 6 hp , and so importantly a MUCH SMOOTHER application of that power.
If have installed a “Dyno-Jet” Jet Kit, you may have a plug or restrictor in the main air passage. This is a list we have compiled so you will have an idea if you will need to remove a plug or restrictor so the passage can be used to it’s original flow potential again. You will be able to set up the Flo-Commander w/no problem, no matter what jet kit brand or type you may have installed. The list here is handy, as it will tell you if you should purchase our handy super time saver Plug/Restrictor Removal system. You can remove them without the system, but the few bucks for the system is well worth it even if you only ever use it once. They are just a convenience we offer to you. If you have another brand/type Jet Kit, the passage is most likely not plugged or restricted. As a “rule of thumb” if you are removing a restrictor, and the jetting was “Right On”, you can go up just one size on the main jets, to bring the mixture back into a neutral position, and fine tune with the F.C. If you remove a plug, you can go up 1 or 2 sizes with the mains and fine tune with the F.C. These are basic settings/suggestions. You could make up the difference with just the F.C., but because you would be closing it substantially to get the mixture back rich enough, you wouldn’t be getting as much of a synchronization effect, as you would not be allowing the circuit to be utilized as much.
Many times though we have found that the Jet system installer, did not put the plugs or restrictors in anyway, in which case it’s an extra easy install.
Corrector/Restrictor mean the same thing below. VTR 1000 97 – 03 stage 1 n/a
It can be viewed at, http://www.flo-commander.com/
Here is the write-up on how the Flo-Commander works:
General Technical Information
When most any carburetor is being designed the first time, one of the most complicated areas to make work correctly is the transitional areas, where the carbs are trying to deliver a smooth power/ fuel curve area as the rpm`s go from the pilot to the mid circuit, then the mid to the main or top end circuit. This is where most of the stumbling and dead spots occur that make the power drop or be erratic. The other big issue is keeping the carbs synchronized after you leave the idle area and bring the rpm up, (ever watch your synchronization gauge after bring up the rpm`s, even after having them all even at idle?)Also air moving around in the air box, gives different pressures to each of the four carbs , causing them to run way out of synchronization, resulting in inconsistent, uneven, erratic power.
The Flo-Commander takes all fuel air circuits, from the MAIN AIR JET LOCATION, (via our tubing adapters, and tubing), and routes them all into one location, so that each carb gets exactly the same amount of air all the time. The result is much smoother transition areas I previously talked about as well as all other areas being enhanced as well. The icing on the cake is being able to adjust the amount of air you are letting into the system, thus you can meter the air/fuel mixture, from one location, without doing anything to the carbs. And the system can even be installed without having to go into or removing the carbs at all, under normal circumstances.
The Flo-Commander ties/blends each of the carburetor's fuel to air mixtures to one, Thus eliminating the results of uneven air pressures around the carb air jets causing the multiple fuel/air mixtures of the diff. carbs to thus be much better synchronized through-out the entire RPM range (approx. 3000 to red-line or 1/16 - 1/8 throttle position to W.O.T.) instead of just at idle. You adjust the fuel/air mixture of all the carbs at once by adjusting the thumbscrew to add or limit the air going into the main circuit. The carbs in which we remove the main air-jet to install the tubing adapter have a carefully sized and shaped restriction inside the tubing adapter. We use this, and use the same restrictions already in place (on the carbs we just press the adapter down over the air-jet), to ensure that even if the flo-com. adjustment is opened way up it won't be dangerously lean. When opening it all the way, it does allow a certain amount more air through (to go slightly leaner in the mixture) because even though the restriction is the same size, the other effects such as air velocity & flow, in the tubing, allow / enable it. You then have a more broad range of adjustment.
The first sought after, and now acquired goal, is smoother circuit-to-circuit transition areas, as well as much better synchronization. The next sought after and acquired goal is being able to adjust (to a certain degree) multiple carburetors from one point.
End result; more TQ & HP, a more smooth and predictable power curve, convenience of tuning, the flo-c. will aid in determining where your jet size should be, if you make radical engine mods, while allowing the finer adjusting to be done with the unit itself. How much power you gain will vary , but, we have seen averages of 2 or 3 in a few areas, up to 10 or 12 and higher in others. An over all average gain in a particular situation, as long as the installer of the Flo-Commander at least average skills as far as a conscientious mechanic, and (DEPENDING ON WHAT WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE & HOW CORRECTLY IT WAS DONE) has been somewhere between 4 & 6 hp , and so importantly a MUCH SMOOTHER application of that power.
Jet Kit info
This is covered in the instructions that come with your F.C. system as well.If have installed a “Dyno-Jet” Jet Kit, you may have a plug or restrictor in the main air passage. This is a list we have compiled so you will have an idea if you will need to remove a plug or restrictor so the passage can be used to it’s original flow potential again. You will be able to set up the Flo-Commander w/no problem, no matter what jet kit brand or type you may have installed. The list here is handy, as it will tell you if you should purchase our handy super time saver Plug/Restrictor Removal system. You can remove them without the system, but the few bucks for the system is well worth it even if you only ever use it once. They are just a convenience we offer to you. If you have another brand/type Jet Kit, the passage is most likely not plugged or restricted. As a “rule of thumb” if you are removing a restrictor, and the jetting was “Right On”, you can go up just one size on the main jets, to bring the mixture back into a neutral position, and fine tune with the F.C. If you remove a plug, you can go up 1 or 2 sizes with the mains and fine tune with the F.C. These are basic settings/suggestions. You could make up the difference with just the F.C., but because you would be closing it substantially to get the mixture back rich enough, you wouldn’t be getting as much of a synchronization effect, as you would not be allowing the circuit to be utilized as much.
Many times though we have found that the Jet system installer, did not put the plugs or restrictors in anyway, in which case it’s an extra easy install.
Corrector/Restrictor mean the same thing below.
06-24-2009, 12:32 PM
#11
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SuperSport
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06-24-2009, 02:55 PM
#12
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SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmar NY
Posts: 805
I was going to start this thread myself - thanks reaper.
I have read the flo-commander site, but I think I'm a bit slow on this topic. I thought I had a rough grasp of jetting, but I always thought in terms of fuel control, not air control. This item seems to control the air side.
The sight also indicates that the jetting needs to be close - and then the flow commander would help fine tune. Yet Mikstr indicates that his adjustments may have covered the range of several jet sizes. Then Killer comes on and states it is a very minor adjustment.
Is it worth it? Will it shortcut potential iterative jetting steps?
I have read the flo-commander site, but I think I'm a bit slow on this topic. I thought I had a rough grasp of jetting, but I always thought in terms of fuel control, not air control. This item seems to control the air side.
The sight also indicates that the jetting needs to be close - and then the flow commander would help fine tune. Yet Mikstr indicates that his adjustments may have covered the range of several jet sizes. Then Killer comes on and states it is a very minor adjustment.
Is it worth it? Will it shortcut potential iterative jetting steps?
06-24-2009, 03:18 PM
#13
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 18
I've had the Flo Commander installed for about 2 yrs. An easy job, took about 30 minutes with a drill and screwdriver. I set up as per the instructions and headed off for a dyno run. 1st run 105.3hp with the a/f ratio way lean. Aquick turn of the screw and 2nd run 108.7hp with a marked improvement in a/f ratio.
Unfortunately the dyno crapped out at that stage, thus no more runs, but that will give a good idea how easy it is to find/fine tune power with the Flo Commander.
In effect it has the same result as raising or lowering the needles, and to a lesser extent changing main jets, but without the hassle of pulling the carbs down. Highly recommended.
Unfortunately the dyno crapped out at that stage, thus no more runs, but that will give a good idea how easy it is to find/fine tune power with the Flo Commander.In effect it has the same result as raising or lowering the needles, and to a lesser extent changing main jets, but without the hassle of pulling the carbs down. Highly recommended.
06-24-2009, 03:48 PM
#14
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
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I've got no experience with the Flo Commander but one thing I'd take note of if I've read their website correctly;
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
06-24-2009, 04:50 PM
#15
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Superstock
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: texas
Posts: 286
I've got no experience with the Flo Commander but one thing I'd take note of if I've read their website correctly;
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
sounds right to me. i have the dynojet kit, k&n air filter and couldnt be happier.my yoshies burnned in a golden brown so i figgured its running pretty close to "right on". so dumping more gas, and less air into the mix wouldnt help much and probally just cost me mpg? now if i could get a huge hp increase then id be all over this.
06-24-2009, 07:27 PM
#17
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Back Marker
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Antonio, Tx.
Posts: 181
So, does the fuel commander kit for the hawk come with the diffuser they talk about? Or is this additional. Really like the sound of this system, as it would allow me to quickly retune, depending which set up i selected on my Blueflame Evo cans.
06-25-2009, 08:02 AM
#19
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SuperBike
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,802
I've got no experience with the Flo Commander but one thing I'd take note of if I've read their website correctly;
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
To get any value from the Flo Commander your bike has to be jetted at least slightly lean in the first place. It can enrich the mixture if you're jetted lean but if your bike is running rich already it can only make it richer.
So you can leave the carbs alone if you're lean already but otherwise would need to pull them and rejet before installing the thing.
06-25-2009, 08:20 AM
#20
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It ties together the main air circuits and syncs the carbs that way. According to Flo-Commander 3 turns out on the mixture screw is roughly equivalent to not having it in the system. Further out on the screw is leaner and further in is richer, so you can definitely lean it out. Experimentation bears this out. Ultimate wide open throttle mixture is still determined by the main jet.
06-25-2009, 08:44 AM
#21
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Like I said, it is a useful tool and certainly has some benefits, but the bike still needs to be jetted. Now that I have my jetting pretty much where I like it I rarely adjust the Flo Commander, although I do make fine adjustments depending on weather or altitude.
06-25-2009, 10:50 AM
#22
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Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 344
Pilot Air-Jet Circuit
Anyone have this add-on to their FC?
A New Addition Many have been asking if the Flo-Commander will work with the pilot circuit as well as it does with the main circuit, and do we have the parts to fabricate a set-up for it as well. Well, the answer now is yes to both questions. This arrangement enhances operation at idle as well as throttle response from a closed, or a slightly open position. Many times as you close the throttle upon entering a corner, then start to crack open the throttle there is a lag then a sudden hit of power, (which has been the cause of more high-sides than many racers want to remember). This is evident/noticeable on race engines where this area (from closed to 1/16th or 1/8th open throttle) ), has been given little tuning time, or just can't be tuned well using normal methods, due to many different reasons. This is common with many Flat-Slide type set-ups, as well as stock carbs which are many times very lean at idle, and at a "just cracked open position". With the stock set-ups, the problem is not usually enough of a problem to be noticeable or to be concerned with. The idle mixture screws will usually take care of a lot of that area. However , the Flo-Commander system set up with this circuit enhances throttle response from the closed throttle & "just cracked open position", and increases power thru better synchronization. Due to the fact that with most o.e.m carbs, the pilot circuit uses fairly large air restrictions, and the fact that at part throttle, precise synchronization really makes a difference. As your throttle position opens further, into the main circuit, your other Flo-Commander will take care of the mixture and synchronization from there to W.O.T. or red line. On a street Sportbike, when you are cruising at a lower part throttle position, say up to 3500 or so, the Flo-Commander set up on the pilot system will solve many tuning problems, which make the engine run rough or surge there. Again, our system on the main circuit is the best for overall improvement, but if need be, a set-up on the pilot system can be a great plus as well.
A New Addition Many have been asking if the Flo-Commander will work with the pilot circuit as well as it does with the main circuit, and do we have the parts to fabricate a set-up for it as well. Well, the answer now is yes to both questions. This arrangement enhances operation at idle as well as throttle response from a closed, or a slightly open position. Many times as you close the throttle upon entering a corner, then start to crack open the throttle there is a lag then a sudden hit of power, (which has been the cause of more high-sides than many racers want to remember). This is evident/noticeable on race engines where this area (from closed to 1/16th or 1/8th open throttle) ), has been given little tuning time, or just can't be tuned well using normal methods, due to many different reasons. This is common with many Flat-Slide type set-ups, as well as stock carbs which are many times very lean at idle, and at a "just cracked open position". With the stock set-ups, the problem is not usually enough of a problem to be noticeable or to be concerned with. The idle mixture screws will usually take care of a lot of that area. However , the Flo-Commander system set up with this circuit enhances throttle response from the closed throttle & "just cracked open position", and increases power thru better synchronization. Due to the fact that with most o.e.m carbs, the pilot circuit uses fairly large air restrictions, and the fact that at part throttle, precise synchronization really makes a difference. As your throttle position opens further, into the main circuit, your other Flo-Commander will take care of the mixture and synchronization from there to W.O.T. or red line. On a street Sportbike, when you are cruising at a lower part throttle position, say up to 3500 or so, the Flo-Commander set up on the pilot system will solve many tuning problems, which make the engine run rough or surge there. Again, our system on the main circuit is the best for overall improvement, but if need be, a set-up on the pilot system can be a great plus as well.
06-25-2009, 10:07 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The Flo-Commander ties/blends each of the carburetor's fuel to air mixtures to one, Thus eliminating the results of uneven air pressures around the carb air jets causing the multiple fuel/air mixtures of the diff. carbs to thus be much better synchronized through-out the entire RPM range (approx. 3000 to red-line or 1/16 - 1/8 throttle position to W.O.T.) instead of just at idle. You adjust the fuel/air mixture of all the carbs at once by adjusting the thumbscrew to add or limit the air going into the main circuit. The carbs in which we remove the main air-jet to install the tubing adapter have a carefully sized and shaped restriction inside the tubing adapter. We use this, and use the same restrictions already in place (on the carbs we just press the adapter down over the air-jet), to ensure that even if the flo-com. adjustment is opened way up it won't be dangerously lean. When opening it all the way, it does allow a certain amount more air through (to go slightly leaner in the mixture) because even though the restriction is the same size, the other effects such as air velocity & flow, in the tubing, allow / enable it. You then have a more broad range of adjustment.
The first sought after, and now acquired goal, is smoother circuit-to-circuit transition areas, as well as much better synchronization. The next sought after and acquired goal is being able to adjust (to a certain degree) multiple carburetors from one point.
The first sought after, and now acquired goal, is smoother circuit-to-circuit transition areas, as well as much better synchronization. The next sought after and acquired goal is being able to adjust (to a certain degree) multiple carburetors from one point.
Also, it mentions better synchronization of the carburetors using the Flo-Commander. So does this mean that the gauge will read the same when the carbs are synchronized at idle or 4K rpm? I typically synch mine at 4K.
I do not find a great deal of clarity in this write-up for this product. Maybe someone can shed some additional light on this topic.
06-27-2009, 08:08 AM
#25
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This passage is so what confusing when considering the Superhawk because the rear cylinder jetting is richer than the front cylinder due to a decreased air flow around the rear cylinder head. So if the air flow is blended would the rear carburetor run leaner or richer?
Also, it mentions better synchronization of the carburetors using the Flo-Commander. So does this mean that the gauge will read the same when the carbs are synchronized at idle or 4K rpm? I typically synch mine at 4K.
I do not find a great deal of clarity in this write-up for this product. Maybe someone can shed some additional light on this topic.
Also, it mentions better synchronization of the carburetors using the Flo-Commander. So does this mean that the gauge will read the same when the carbs are synchronized at idle or 4K rpm? I typically synch mine at 4K.
I do not find a great deal of clarity in this write-up for this product. Maybe someone can shed some additional light on this topic.
The Flo-commander is NOT a substitute for jetting... It's a fine tune for the jetting that is in place... It's that simple...
The jetting that is done is still what affects how the bike runs, this means since the rear is naturally richer (because of heat issues) and therefore jetted for this, what the FC does is to even out the difference that the airbox turbulence creates... Nothing else... If you make the setting richer with the FC it goes richer for both, same for leaner...
This means that the balance between the front and rear cylinder is unchanged as far as jetting goes... But, you might find that you need to adjust the balance as the airflow in the carbs is evened out... Ie you might find that you can't get both cylinders to optimum unless you re-jet one cylinder...
Same for the synchronisation... It still works the same as without the FC... If you sync at idle it's dead even there but drifts more and more the further away you get, that's why some sync at 4K to compensate, as this is where you wan't them sync'ed for the midrange... The FC reduces the drift, but doesn't cancel it out completely... Altough I think it could come very close to canceling it out in the whole midrange like they advertise...
In terms of how much you can adjust, they claim it's able to adjust about one jet size either way... Ie if you are on the right jet size you can then fine tune... If you are one size or more of, adjusting the FC to one end will produce noticable gains and you can then figure out which way you need to move with the jetting...
So you still jet your carbs the same, sync your carbs the same and adjust you idle and what not the same...
But once you have the FC in place and those other things dialed in, and a basic jetting in place, you can adjust both carbs from one point and fiddle around to figure out if you need a re-jet without going on a dyno... Or adjust for the weather... Or once you have it setup, go get that dyno-tune and have them fine tune it to the max instead of paying several hours worth of basic setup to figure out what jet is needed...
Last edited by Tweety; 06-27-2009 at 08:16 AM.
07-02-2009, 02:06 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Installed a Flo Commander today. Test results in the neutral position (3 turns out) are very good. Much better throttle response off idle and low rpm. Seems to be smoother on deceleration, also.
08-17-2009, 12:27 PM
#27
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this is great info. im running a little on the lean side, random pops and stalls from time to time when i come to a stop. so i think i might give this a go and see if it makes a difference for me. im glad to see that theres something this cool for the vtr.
but has anyone looked into how this thing works? im sure that its something that can be fabbed up for a few bucks. kinda like a home made manual boost controller for a turbo setup can be made for few bucks vs buying an expensive unit.
but has anyone looked into how this thing works? im sure that its something that can be fabbed up for a few bucks. kinda like a home made manual boost controller for a turbo setup can be made for few bucks vs buying an expensive unit.
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