Engine Rebuild after lowside
09-28-2007, 10:29 PM
#1
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 99
Engine Rebuild after lowside
I decided that after inspecting my motor, that I will rebuild it. I found some dirt/grit inside the trans next to open roller bearings.
So, a set of JE pistons has just been ordered.
But I need gasket/bearing kit. I have heard and thought I saw somewhere that there is a A and a B gasket set. What is the difference? I sorta want to replace the roller bearings because if there is dirt/grit inside one, I dont think washing/flushing the bearings out is a gaurantee that I will get all the dirt out.
So can anyone help with what gasket set I need ie: do bearings come with it, or are they ordered separatly?
I'm also eyeballing the fender eliminator at 58cycle. $128, any body have one?
I have a idea of how to build a hoist/lift/support for the back of the bike to support while taking rear tire/swingarm, engine out. I will post a pic after I get it built.
Thanks
Doug
ETA: I went to the dentist today and came home with a bottle of painkillers and cant spell tonifght
So, a set of JE pistons has just been ordered.
But I need gasket/bearing kit. I have heard and thought I saw somewhere that there is a A and a B gasket set. What is the difference? I sorta want to replace the roller bearings because if there is dirt/grit inside one, I dont think washing/flushing the bearings out is a gaurantee that I will get all the dirt out.
So can anyone help with what gasket set I need ie: do bearings come with it, or are they ordered separatly?
I'm also eyeballing the fender eliminator at 58cycle. $128, any body have one?
I have a idea of how to build a hoist/lift/support for the back of the bike to support while taking rear tire/swingarm, engine out. I will post a pic after I get it built.
Thanks
Doug
ETA: I went to the dentist today and came home with a bottle of painkillers and cant spell tonifght
Last edited by ride57; 09-28-2007 at 10:30 PM. Reason: cant spell!
09-29-2007, 05:15 AM
#2
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
You should definitely change all the bearings that are suspicious to you, even if you change one that is not required, it will at least buy you confidence and the last thing you want is to start over again. Are you in a garage ?? If so you may attach a crank style strap to the passenger peg on the opposite side of the sidestand to the celling and crank it until the wheel is barely off the ground. When you will take the engine out is another story tough.
I think I would hang the whole bike in the air, but that's me, I'm cheap
I think I would hang the whole bike in the air, but that's me, I'm cheap
09-29-2007, 05:44 AM
#3
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 1,548
there are two gasket sets. I would ask the service manager at a local honda shop for specific part numbers and what is included in each set - I think they were pretty complete but there may be some other odd pieces you'll need. The bearings for the crank and conrod have to be ordered by the codes on the cranks (I think there are 3 color/size codes) so you have to wait till you have the motor down to that point to order those (maybe you already do). I agree if you are going to all the work to tear it down you might as well rebuild it completely - its mostly labor.
10-06-2007, 06:35 PM
#4
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Eagle, ID.
Posts: 599
ride57:
When I went to my local Honda dealer the other day, they lifted my bike with tie-down straps attached to the seat posts, remove the seat and they are the metal loops fixed to the frame were the seat clips into, and they raised it with a warner wench attached to an I beam.
You could use a pulley system instead of the wench attached to a attic floor joist.
Just an idea
When I went to my local Honda dealer the other day, they lifted my bike with tie-down straps attached to the seat posts, remove the seat and they are the metal loops fixed to the frame were the seat clips into, and they raised it with a warner wench attached to an I beam.
You could use a pulley system instead of the wench attached to a attic floor joist.
Just an idea
so now I get to start taking it apart. 
10-17-2007, 08:13 PM
#11
Administrator
World Champion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fulton, MO
Posts: 105,287
10-30-2007, 09:56 PM
#12
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 99
Getting things together
Last payday I bought a large "C" clamp for a homemade valve compressor. I also bought a 23mm socket that I am going to cut out a side on. I will use the socket to go over the valve retainer and the cut out side is so I can get to the keepers. I am going to cut out a small piece of wood to protect the valve head from the C clamp. I also picked up a B gasket set.
I also bought a hand lapper and compound today. Since there is only 11k miles on it, I really dont think I will need to do much more than hand lapping.
This payday I will get the alt cover and associated gaskets and a couple open bearings in the tranny that I want to replace.
Still waiting for a mid-pipe and mounting hardware.
And I still need to get a hone for breaking the glaze.
Last payday I bought a large "C" clamp for a homemade valve compressor. I also bought a 23mm socket that I am going to cut out a side on. I will use the socket to go over the valve retainer and the cut out side is so I can get to the keepers. I am going to cut out a small piece of wood to protect the valve head from the C clamp. I also picked up a B gasket set.
I also bought a hand lapper and compound today. Since there is only 11k miles on it, I really dont think I will need to do much more than hand lapping.
This payday I will get the alt cover and associated gaskets and a couple open bearings in the tranny that I want to replace.
Still waiting for a mid-pipe and mounting hardware.
And I still need to get a hone for breaking the glaze.
11-04-2007, 08:28 PM
#14
Administrator
World Champion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fulton, MO
Posts: 105,287
Ensure you THOROUGHLY wash the cylinders out with hot, soapy water after the hone. Follow up with some brake parts cleaner and finally WD-40 or light oil to protect from corrosion until she's together. Failure to clean the cylinder walls will cause very rapid ring and cylinder wall wear.
11-08-2007, 10:57 PM
#15
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 247
Ensure you THOROUGHLY wash the cylinders out with hot, soapy water after the hone. Follow up with some brake parts cleaner and finally WD-40 or light oil to protect from corrosion until she's together. Failure to clean the cylinder walls will cause very rapid ring and cylinder wall wear.
11-09-2007, 06:47 AM
#16
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
I don't think you can mess up the metal proprieties with WD-40, the only snag is that it's thin and it will (at least partly) evaporate. I washed my cylinders with ATF until the rags were coming out as clean as new, I used diff oil to coat the cylinders while buttoning up the rest of the engine, a light coat of white grease would do, in fact whatever is thick enought to stay there until initial start up and lube until the oil flow trough the rod bearings and spray the underside of the piston
11-09-2007, 07:59 AM
#17
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 1,082
Another 2 cents on engine building...get you and old fashioned oil squirt can and liberally squirt everything in the Bottom End as you reassemble, remeber that you have drained every drop of oil out of her. Prime the oil pump! When you have filled the crankcase turn the Kill switch off and crank her with the starter motor till the oil light goes off...that should ensure oil has gotten to all of those internal passages..then and only then fire her up. I also have some thoughts on top end assembly but I'll keep those tricks to myself for now.
11-09-2007, 09:09 AM
#18
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 880
Another 2 cents on engine building...get you and old fashioned oil squirt can and liberally squirt everything in the Bottom End as you reassemble, remeber that you have drained every drop of oil out of her. Prime the oil pump! When you have filled the crankcase turn the Kill switch off and crank her with the starter motor till the oil light goes off...that should ensure oil has gotten to all of those internal passages..then and only then fire her up. I also have some thoughts on top end assembly but I'll keep those tricks to myself for now.
11-09-2007, 10:15 AM
#19
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 1,082
Actually I agree with the no plugs completely..I just forgot to mention it and that also means you can do this before you reinstall the fuel tank and lines so when you do you're ready for fire!
11-12-2007, 09:13 PM
#21
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 99
I used to use STP when I rebuilt car motors back in the 70's. I would just gob it on crank/rod/bearings etc. Now I use assembly lube. I have Crane or Honda.
I ordered the last (I think) of the parts I need. still not here yet.
But, here is the C clamp/modified socket valve keeper removal tool!
( I think Im gonna do the heads last though)
I ordered the last (I think) of the parts I need. still not here yet.
But, here is the C clamp/modified socket valve keeper removal tool!
( I think Im gonna do the heads last though)
11-18-2007, 06:17 PM
#22
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 99
Got the cases split saturday
So hopefully I will get time this week to get the bearings out/measured and order the crank and rod bearings. That ~should~ be all the parts I need.
wear pattern on the lower crank bearing
So hopefully I will get time this week to get the bearings out/measured and order the crank and rod bearings. That ~should~ be all the parts I need.wear pattern on the lower crank bearing
12-08-2007, 10:40 AM
#28
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
Hers's a couple suggestions:
I would put a VERY light coat of oil in the cylinders before assembly. The rings need to rub the cylinder walls to seat. Put some oil on the piston skirts. You can do a light crosshatch with 800 grit sandpaper and WD40. It won't remove a measurable amount of material, so honing is not necessary.
Put a film container into the lifter bores before you remove the valves!! You don't want to ding them at all.
For the best engine life, I would cut new valve seats. the exhaust valves especially rely on heat transfer from seat conatact area. the seats and valve faces will start to pit. Probably already have. They worse they get, the faster they get worse.
Also, if it were me, I would clean the trans bearings in very clean solvent, like new paint thinner several times. Do not spin them on your finger with shop air. It's a good way to lose a finger. You can tell if they are clean. they will roll very smoothly. they are well lubricated in the engine and will continue to get cleaner over time.
I would put a VERY light coat of oil in the cylinders before assembly. The rings need to rub the cylinder walls to seat. Put some oil on the piston skirts. You can do a light crosshatch with 800 grit sandpaper and WD40. It won't remove a measurable amount of material, so honing is not necessary.
Put a film container into the lifter bores before you remove the valves!! You don't want to ding them at all.
For the best engine life, I would cut new valve seats. the exhaust valves especially rely on heat transfer from seat conatact area. the seats and valve faces will start to pit. Probably already have. They worse they get, the faster they get worse.
Also, if it were me, I would clean the trans bearings in very clean solvent, like new paint thinner several times. Do not spin them on your finger with shop air. It's a good way to lose a finger. You can tell if they are clean. they will roll very smoothly. they are well lubricated in the engine and will continue to get cleaner over time.
Last edited by RCVTR; 12-08-2007 at 10:44 AM.
03-08-2008, 11:09 PM
#30
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 99
Well, got the bearings, and started to put in the new JE pistons. But, of course it cant be easy, since Im doing it, there must be an ordeal. Minr is, Im having one hell of a time getting the pistons in.
They just dont wanna go. As soon as the oil ring gets between the ring compressor and the block, it slips out. AArrrrgh ^*^^*))^#@.
Ive tried the size up and down on the ring compressor, holding it against the block as hard as I can, little taps, big taps... I cant go from the bottom (Harley goes from the bottom, I can just use my fingers to finesse it in)
Any tricks??, does one brand of ring compressor work better?
frustrated
And, I dont have my GT1000 anymore, as you can see my avitar is a Ducati 748
They just dont wanna go. As soon as the oil ring gets between the ring compressor and the block, it slips out. AArrrrgh ^*^^*))^#@.
Ive tried the size up and down on the ring compressor, holding it against the block as hard as I can, little taps, big taps... I cant go from the bottom (Harley goes from the bottom, I can just use my fingers to finesse it in)
Any tricks??, does one brand of ring compressor work better?
frustrated
And, I dont have my GT1000 anymore, as you can see my avitar is a Ducati 748
