Best mod
04-02-2013, 06:27 PM
#91
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04-02-2013, 06:43 PM
#92
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I'm surprised they didn't start out the day with a "no brakes" drill. That teaches throttle control which is MUCH more important than brakes. With the schools I've been involved with the brakes don't show up until the afternoon and even then it is very light brakes allowed.
Just my experiences.
Just my experiences.
The picture in my mind was Freddy having everyone stand at the apex of a corner as he came smoking in with his knee on the ground and then hard on the brakes and stop in front of the group. I guess he was out of control huh....
I just wonder why these to riders (both schools) teach trail braking if it is reducing your control of the motorbike?
04-02-2013, 06:43 PM
#93
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04-02-2013, 06:59 PM
#94
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04-02-2013, 08:18 PM
#98
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It's a simple training aid so you can visualize the concept of trail braking.
It was never supposed to be an actual corner somewhere.....
04-02-2013, 08:26 PM
#99
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Did either one of them instruct you on the track personally about braking techniques are more important than anything else in track riding?
or was it just some track instructor who's main concern is about the safety of the track rather than getting the fastest lap time?
You can learn the basics at track school, but eventually you need to find out what makes you go fast; it could very well be different than what they teach you at track school.
Last edited by cat0020; 04-02-2013 at 08:40 PM.
04-02-2013, 08:57 PM
#101
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Because the double lines in the middle that rider is not crossing to maximize the road surface to take the corner, do you fail to see that?
Do I need to know who they are?
Did either one of them instruct you on the track personally about braking techniques are more important than anything else in track riding?
or was it just some track instructor who's main concern is about the safety of the track rather than getting the fastest lap time?
You can learn the basics at track school, but eventually you need to find out what makes you go fast; it could very well be different than what they teach you at track school.
Do I need to know who they are?
Did either one of them instruct you on the track personally about braking techniques are more important than anything else in track riding?
or was it just some track instructor who's main concern is about the safety of the track rather than getting the fastest lap time?
You can learn the basics at track school, but eventually you need to find out what makes you go fast; it could very well be different than what they teach you at track school.
which one are you?
04-02-2013, 09:10 PM
#102
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Guys I fixed the image! Look at post #85! I turned it into a track! It's ok!
What we really have to figure out is why the motorcycle guy rides a ladder into a black hole and some how warps back out of it!
What we really have to figure out is why the motorcycle guy rides a ladder into a black hole and some how warps back out of it!
04-02-2013, 09:22 PM
#103
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Must be a worm hole singularity issue here, maybe we should ask Stephen Hawking?
04-02-2013, 10:00 PM
#104
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It might help but it also shows you haven't been around bikes for all that long. If googling the names is a bit too tough let me help Freddie is a former 250 & 500cc MotoGP World Champion.
Doug Chandler is one of only four riders in AMA racing history to win the AMA Grand Slam, representing national wins at a mile, half-mile, short track, TT and road race.[1] He was inducted into the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame in 2006.[1]
Taken from Doug Chandler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I think they might know a thing or two about riding a motorbike quickly.
Can you show me where I ever said "braking techniques are more important than anything else in track riding?"
This all is about your questionable comment that "using the brakes only limit your options and reduce control of your vehicle"
But yeah both gave personal instruction during the day.
Well as you have no idea about Freddie or Doug I guess yeah you can say we just had "some track instructors" The first was some guy named Nick Ienatsch and here is a little blurb:
Providing instruction for our class is Chief instructor Nick Ienatsch. Ienatsch has been with Freddie's school since its inception and has a long-history in the world of motorcycling. His exploits include tenure within the AMA 250cc Grand Prix racing ranks while working as a journalist for some of the major U.S. motorcycle magazines. Additionally, he's also penned a performance riding book titled Sport Riding Techniques, so rest assured he might know a thing or two about that thing we call performance riding.
Freddie Spencer Riding School - Motorcycle USA
and his flunky side kick Ken Hill
KH Coaching
So yeah all these guys are faster than anyone on this board can ever hope to be....
I won't even bother with the 2 at Doug's school but will say Doug did give more personal instruction....
So where besides the track do you find out what makes you go fast?
The street maybe? ...You really don't make sense at times...
How better learn how to ride fast then from someone that actually knows how?
Doug Chandler is one of only four riders in AMA racing history to win the AMA Grand Slam, representing national wins at a mile, half-mile, short track, TT and road race.[1] He was inducted into the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame in 2006.[1]
Taken from Doug Chandler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I think they might know a thing or two about riding a motorbike quickly.
This all is about your questionable comment that "using the brakes only limit your options and reduce control of your vehicle"
But yeah both gave personal instruction during the day.
Providing instruction for our class is Chief instructor Nick Ienatsch. Ienatsch has been with Freddie's school since its inception and has a long-history in the world of motorcycling. His exploits include tenure within the AMA 250cc Grand Prix racing ranks while working as a journalist for some of the major U.S. motorcycle magazines. Additionally, he's also penned a performance riding book titled Sport Riding Techniques, so rest assured he might know a thing or two about that thing we call performance riding.
Freddie Spencer Riding School - Motorcycle USA
and his flunky side kick Ken Hill
KH Coaching
So yeah all these guys are faster than anyone on this board can ever hope to be....
I won't even bother with the 2 at Doug's school but will say Doug did give more personal instruction....
The street maybe? ...You really don't make sense at times...
How better learn how to ride fast then from someone that actually knows how?
Last edited by 8541Hawk; 04-03-2013 at 07:27 PM.
04-02-2013, 10:08 PM
#105
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Well if you want the real answer.... it's because they are using one diagram to show both the "inside-out" line and the "outside-in" line, with the same apex for a example is all.
04-03-2013, 02:03 AM
#106
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Also noted!
I think that's also what Cat is pointing out in a roundabout sort of way.
It's not cut and dry, but let me throw a couple of things out that I was considering when making the swap without adding the tuning cost:
Stock 929rr forks are sprung and valved for a bike/rider closer to what I need than stock VTR forks. Still not quite heavy enough, but much closer...
You spring and valve the superhawk forks and then add a fork brace and you're done. If you want more out of them or your brakes, high on the list of improvements is to start again at ground zero with a fork swap...
And if we're talking brakes... I use my bike for commuting. I like the better modulation and feel of the larger rotors and calipers in the city as that very slight extra safety factor. Stock ones work just fine, but why oh why would you upgrade ANYTHING if the stock stuff works just fine? It was all designed by Honda to be one specific bike, so shouldn't be touched. Buy the color you like and keep the fluids fresh!
I think that's also what Cat is pointing out in a roundabout sort of way.
It's not cut and dry, but let me throw a couple of things out that I was considering when making the swap without adding the tuning cost:
Stock 929rr forks are sprung and valved for a bike/rider closer to what I need than stock VTR forks. Still not quite heavy enough, but much closer...
You spring and valve the superhawk forks and then add a fork brace and you're done. If you want more out of them or your brakes, high on the list of improvements is to start again at ground zero with a fork swap...
And if we're talking brakes... I use my bike for commuting. I like the better modulation and feel of the larger rotors and calipers in the city as that very slight extra safety factor. Stock ones work just fine, but why oh why would you upgrade ANYTHING if the stock stuff works just fine? It was all designed by Honda to be one specific bike, so shouldn't be touched. Buy the color you like and keep the fluids fresh!
Not saying it's not a step up compared to untouched OEM, but it is probably beat by a properly worked over OEM fork...
04-03-2013, 02:58 AM
#107
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I'd have to go with suspension as well.
It's on my to do list along with .435/.422 WebCams and JE 11:1 pistons.
I currently have a K&N filter, Two Brothers carbon high mount exhaust w/ head pipes and modded intake boots.
I adjusted my carbs using an EGA machine and a motion pro carb synchronizer.
.
It's on my to do list along with .435/.422 WebCams and JE 11:1 pistons.
I currently have a K&N filter, Two Brothers carbon high mount exhaust w/ head pipes and modded intake boots.
I adjusted my carbs using an EGA machine and a motion pro carb synchronizer.
.
04-03-2013, 03:00 AM
#108
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Actually, the 929 fork might be sprung heavier than the VTR fork... But it's on a lighter bike, with less weight bias to the front... So in the real world, once it's on the VTR, it's still significantly undersprung for just about anyone but the really lightweight... The 954 is a step up, with heavier springs/valves... Basically, if you are above 140 pounds, the 929 forks would benefit from having work done...
Not saying it's not a step up compared to untouched OEM, but it is probably beat by a properly worked over OEM fork...
Not saying it's not a step up compared to untouched OEM, but it is probably beat by a properly worked over OEM fork...
04-03-2013, 07:37 AM
#109
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I'm not an expert on suspension setup, nor do I claim to be unlike others... So my answer is more about "best guess"...
If you are aiming for an USD fork, I'd just advice you to go for the CBR 1000RR fork, it gets you a very lightweight and rigid fork with radial calipers, and it's a proven concept with a "roadmap" to follow... And since those bikes are both plentiful, and the right age, there are plenty of parts at decent prices...
The next best, 929RR/954RR is a good choice, same ease to do, parts available a bit cheaper than the 1000RR, but no radial brakes... In your case, you are probably ballpark there on weight with these, but valving is likely not ideal...
Then have a suspension shop suit the springs and valving to your weight and style (or DIY it if you have the know-how)... That goes for just about any fork you stick on there...
Or save a significant amount of work and money, and just rework the stock forks with springs and valving suited to you, add a brace and you will be good for anything but dedicated track use... Then, stick that money in the rear shock, since it's really unsuited to a lighter rider... You will really feel the difference with one set up for your weight...
If you are aiming for an USD fork, I'd just advice you to go for the CBR 1000RR fork, it gets you a very lightweight and rigid fork with radial calipers, and it's a proven concept with a "roadmap" to follow... And since those bikes are both plentiful, and the right age, there are plenty of parts at decent prices...
The next best, 929RR/954RR is a good choice, same ease to do, parts available a bit cheaper than the 1000RR, but no radial brakes... In your case, you are probably ballpark there on weight with these, but valving is likely not ideal...
Then have a suspension shop suit the springs and valving to your weight and style (or DIY it if you have the know-how)... That goes for just about any fork you stick on there...
Or save a significant amount of work and money, and just rework the stock forks with springs and valving suited to you, add a brace and you will be good for anything but dedicated track use... Then, stick that money in the rear shock, since it's really unsuited to a lighter rider... You will really feel the difference with one set up for your weight...
04-03-2013, 08:38 AM
#110
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Actually, the 929 fork might be sprung heavier than the VTR fork... But it's on a lighter bike, with less weight bias to the front... So in the real world, once it's on the VTR, it's still significantly undersprung for just about anyone but the really lightweight... The 954 is a step up, with heavier springs/valves... Basically, if you are above 140 pounds, the 929 forks would benefit from having work done...
So that's another good point... if you had $500 to spend on suspension, re-working the stock forks (springs, valves, brace, etc) would net a better result than going USD. But if you ever were to want to upgrade beyond that, you're more or less stuck with what you've got. So it all depends on what you want to do an how far you want to take it.
That's the internals alone, though... once you consider wheel options, brake systems, weight, stiffness and looks (especially for a naked bike), the USD front end may be a better way to start. Knowing that you still have to work the internals to get them to perform better than a well done stock front end.
04-03-2013, 05:48 PM
#111
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It is not limited while I'm riding my VTR, could be on my dirt bike, supermotard, even on my bicycle I hone my 2-wheel riding skills.
Why does it have to be on the track to practice going fast?
04-03-2013, 11:33 PM
#112
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Huh, I knew they were lighter than they need to be for me, and that the Fireblade was a good 40 lbs lighter than the Superhawk, but didn't realize they were undersprung for that bike as well.
So that's another good point... if you had $500 to spend on suspension, re-working the stock forks (springs, valves, brace, etc) would net a better result than going USD. But if you ever were to want to upgrade beyond that, you're more or less stuck with what you've got. So it all depends on what you want to do an how far you want to take it.
That's the internals alone, though... once you consider wheel options, brake systems, weight, stiffness and looks (especially for a naked bike), the USD front end may be a better way to start. Knowing that you still have to work the internals to get them to perform better than a well done stock front end.
So that's another good point... if you had $500 to spend on suspension, re-working the stock forks (springs, valves, brace, etc) would net a better result than going USD. But if you ever were to want to upgrade beyond that, you're more or less stuck with what you've got. So it all depends on what you want to do an how far you want to take it.
That's the internals alone, though... once you consider wheel options, brake systems, weight, stiffness and looks (especially for a naked bike), the USD front end may be a better way to start. Knowing that you still have to work the internals to get them to perform better than a well done stock front end.
04-04-2013, 04:28 AM
#113
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It's not really undersprung for the 929RR per see, but with 40 lbs less and less front wheel bias, the difference becomes greater... Besides, most guys riding the 929RR hard will have changed their springs and valves to suit them, since they will have had a somewhat similar experioence to what our OEM forks felt...
Ideal rider weight for a CBR929 with stock CBR929 forks is 55lb. Yes, very undersprung. F/R weight bias is almost identical. FYI
04-04-2013, 09:21 AM
#114
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04-04-2013, 10:03 AM
#116
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Huh, guess I know what I'm doing next then. It honestly felt so good compared to stock that I didn't even know it was that under sprung. It's time to change the oil anyway! Or there's the slight chance the the PO already set it up for a heavier rider.
04-06-2013, 10:38 PM
#117
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I found my devil high mounts to be my favorite for look sound and appeal. The sargent seat is a top for me as well. I need to get into suspension soon for my big ****, im sure it will improve the ride 3x over.
04-08-2013, 09:35 PM
#118
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So I'm pretty new to this site, so take this with a grain of salt, but I just backread this whole thread, and I am absolutely amazed by you guys.
You turn a "what's your favorite mod?" into 2 pages of arguing over who's suspension is better. wtf. Then it gets to the argument over a picture used for learning purposes ? Like, seriously ?
Who cares what the picture "is" ? Why argue over it and completely ruin a potentially fantastic thread ?
I came here looking for ideas for a first mod if (HOPEFULLY!) I get a superhawk soon, and all I get is like 4 answers and a bunch of useless arguing.
Really good way to push new members away from your forum/community...
You turn a "what's your favorite mod?" into 2 pages of arguing over who's suspension is better. wtf. Then it gets to the argument over a picture used for learning purposes ? Like, seriously ?
Who cares what the picture "is" ? Why argue over it and completely ruin a potentially fantastic thread ?
I came here looking for ideas for a first mod if (HOPEFULLY!) I get a superhawk soon, and all I get is like 4 answers and a bunch of useless arguing.
Really good way to push new members away from your forum/community...
04-09-2013, 08:37 AM
#119
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Any feedback is appreciated...
Initially this post sent defensive vibes through me. Don't take these responses as an end-all-be-all, but let me point out a few things:
First off, this is a fairly ambiguous subject. It's like an "oil" or a "tire" thread... if you haven't experienced one of those in a forum then I'm sure you will find out soon enough
. There is no right answer, so everyone will religiously defend their opinion as they cannot be outright proven right or wrong. It leads to endless discussion although people will learn things in the mix (like I often do). Internet words come across much more abrasive; I'm sure if we were all in person the conversion would go much differently but it's hard to judge tone and lay out complicated explanations in forum talk. It's not like we're doing research papers and extensively proof reading our posts. Second, have you taken a look at the other threads on here, particularly ones of people looking for help or people new to the forum? In my opinion the forum is very active and responsive to troubleshooting and general advice (and are willing to repeat that advice over and over to new people happily). I am on other forums with five times as many "active" members that will go days without responding to a thread with a question that I have. I don't know that I'd judge a whole forum on a heated discussion between six members in one single thread.
Third, and more specifically to your situation, if you are looking at a Superhawk, keep in mind you will want to replace/upgrade the CCT's and R/R... both relatively cheap but known failure points on this bike. After that it's a Honda so just ride it and keep fluids fresh. Everything else is just how much personal involvement you want to have with the bike. There are many cheap upgrades, many recommended ones, many things to avoid. You can find almost anything you want to know on here and people are generally very willing to help out...
04-09-2013, 09:09 AM
#120
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Fourth, This bike has been around for 15 years. Tons of people have bought one, loved it, joined the forum, contributed a ton, and left by now. A post started one month ago about which mod is best is not going to have very extensive answers... check out some of the stickies or read a couple more threads if you want to learn about modding these bikes. There are way to many options for specific applications to even be able to start an "options" list like you'd find in Grand Turismo. Do you want to tour? Do you want to race? Do you want to streetfighter it? Do you commute? How much do you want to spend? How much do you want to DIY and how much do you want a shop to work on it? How long do you plan on having the bike? What area of the world do you live in? What kind of shape is the bike in currently? Just some thoughts... each of these riders may have a different list of mods that they prefer! Hopefully I'm not coming across as arrogant; it's just not a cut and dry thread.
Fifth, now this is the part that kind of bugs me. Your first post is a very valid statement from a new member here, because likely for everyone who says something, there are 10 other people who want to. But this is the internet and no one owes you anything (and you didn't even ask for help)! It's an accessible archive, not a help section. I don't know if I should have pointed that out because it no doubt has a condescending tone, but I really don't mean it that way. Honest! I hope I'm not overreacting just trying to help you and anyone else who felt the conversation useless and argumentative and a deterrent to newcomers.
Fifth, now this is the part that kind of bugs me. Your first post is a very valid statement from a new member here, because likely for everyone who says something, there are 10 other people who want to. But this is the internet and no one owes you anything (and you didn't even ask for help)! It's an accessible archive, not a help section. I don't know if I should have pointed that out because it no doubt has a condescending tone, but I really don't mean it that way. Honest! I hope I'm not overreacting just trying to help you and anyone else who felt the conversation useless and argumentative and a deterrent to newcomers.
