Winter Project
03-14-2007, 04:54 PM
#1
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Winter Project
Hello all. It has been warm enough to be in the garage here in New England the past couple of days and I have been able to make some progress on my winter (and spring) project. Here are a couple of pics of the types of things I am doing.
Also in progress are:
900RR swingarm brace.
RC51 front end (like that is something new)
RC51 and 900RR 6 spoke wheels (cause the look cool)
Brembo master cylinders
Kevlar lines
Custom CBR1000RR upper with dual lights and custom windscreen (only mocked up but I will take pictures so you can get the overall idea)
CBR1000RR tail with an RC51 Subframe (subframe is almost done will be posting pictures of that soon)
Underseat radiator
This project is taking me much longer than I wanted and I will probably lose part of the early season up here. We are scheduled to get more winter type weather in the next day or two, so back into hibernation my project will go. I will post up pics as the parts reach a decent stage.
Also in progress are:
900RR swingarm brace.
RC51 front end (like that is something new)
RC51 and 900RR 6 spoke wheels (cause the look cool)
Brembo master cylinders
Kevlar lines
Custom CBR1000RR upper with dual lights and custom windscreen (only mocked up but I will take pictures so you can get the overall idea)
CBR1000RR tail with an RC51 Subframe (subframe is almost done will be posting pictures of that soon)
Underseat radiator
This project is taking me much longer than I wanted and I will probably lose part of the early season up here. We are scheduled to get more winter type weather in the next day or two, so back into hibernation my project will go. I will post up pics as the parts reach a decent stage.
03-15-2007, 03:08 AM
#2
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My project took one year of planning, and two years on the spanners.
My advice would be to not think about how long it is taking, that way you will get the best result. I used to go into my shed, and then think about what I was going to do. There is always something, be it polishing marks out of suspension components and fork clamps, or painting your clutch cover for the fourth time. Yes, I did both and a lot more as well......
Then one day you will go out to the shed and think "Crap, I have nothing to do!!!!"
Then it will be finished. On the occasions that I started thinking about doing things to a time frame I started rushing. So I closed up the shed and did something else, as i wanted everything to be perfect. Most people aren't as picky as I am though. Hope it turns out how you want it! Mine did.
My advice would be to not think about how long it is taking, that way you will get the best result. I used to go into my shed, and then think about what I was going to do. There is always something, be it polishing marks out of suspension components and fork clamps, or painting your clutch cover for the fourth time. Yes, I did both and a lot more as well......
Then one day you will go out to the shed and think "Crap, I have nothing to do!!!!"
Then it will be finished. On the occasions that I started thinking about doing things to a time frame I started rushing. So I closed up the shed and did something else, as i wanted everything to be perfect. Most people aren't as picky as I am though. Hope it turns out how you want it! Mine did.
03-15-2007, 07:15 AM
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Bike sure look sweet Shayne 
How did you get the frame so nice and polished (particularly the rough casting situated below the seat)? Knowing the mds you made, it likely runs even better than it looks (any dyno results to share?)
Looking forward to seeing more pics Seaton, sounds lke an interesting project you got there
Keep up the great work gents
How did you get the frame so nice and polished (particularly the rough casting situated below the seat)? Knowing the mds you made, it likely runs even better than it looks (any dyno results to share?)Looking forward to seeing more pics Seaton, sounds lke an interesting project you got there
Keep up the great work gents
03-15-2007, 07:24 PM
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OK.. Here we go... more pics of the project. Before anyone says "Nice Tires" or something along those lines, remember it is cold here and I needed to have the skating wheels on the bike for better cornering ability ... Actually the rims are just waiting to have their bearings pulled so I can powdercoat them. While I wait for the tools, I wanted to work on the subframe so I needed a point of reference for where "level" would be. The stands I have raise the front too high up.
There still is a lot of work to be done, but as I said before... it is a work in progress...
... Actually the rims are just waiting to have their bearings pulled so I can powdercoat them. While I wait for the tools, I wanted to work on the subframe so I needed a point of reference for where "level" would be. The stands I have raise the front too high up.There still is a lot of work to be done, but as I said before... it is a work in progress...
03-15-2007, 09:37 PM
#10
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Having lived with an underseat radiator for almost two years now I'm really looking forward to seeing another one coming up.
Please post some pics of that installation.
What radiator are you planning on using ?
Cool bike, don't worry about how long it takes because building it is as much fun as riding it will be.
Kai Ju
Please post some pics of that installation.
What radiator are you planning on using ?
Cool bike, don't worry about how long it takes because building it is as much fun as riding it will be.
Kai Ju
03-16-2007, 04:17 AM
#12
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I am looking at an aftermarket radiator that is used for shifter karts. I can order it to any size I need and get the inlets and outlets in the positions I want. It is a little more money, but the cooling should be higher than that of any stock radiator so getting away with one smaller one should be a possibility. I am almost done fabricating the brackets for the front fairing once that is done, I should be able to fly right along with that portion of the project. The tail section simply needs some minor work on the subframe, the cutout for the RC51 seat and the mounting of the tail light. I figure about a weekend of work, that is if I can get a solid weekend of work from the wife.
03-16-2007, 06:22 AM
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Here is the link for the custom radiator that I will be going with.
http://www.speedpartz.com/FOZ_radiator_custom.htm
http://www.speedpartz.com/FOZ_radiator_custom.htm
03-16-2007, 10:26 AM
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they are heli's for a 929. They are nice... not as high as normal, but I find them comfortable enough. With the RC51 front end, they really allow the bars to be much higher than with the 929 front end I previously had. They are an inch and a half higher now.
03-17-2007, 09:16 PM
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Mirrors are a custom set-up. I couldn't find anything that was a "bolt-on" that was any good. These units are French made universal fitting mirrors with the arms re-shaped and adapted to fit the Honda mounts. Lots of work.........
03-17-2007, 09:26 PM
#21
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Engine is nice as a street bike. My high power set-up is not perfect on the street, so I took a step back to make it smoother to ride. Now it has more power than I need anyway, so I may do some more development on it at some stage, but I don't really need it. It is more as an engineering exercise than for need.
I have some ideas for the carbs, that will possibly allow intake mods to work better. Many have tried and failed, but I achieved an extra 5hp, and more torque as well, so I am close. If I can get the constant throttle as good as a stock set-up then it will be perfect! I would like to do this without changing carbs. If I can perfect a mod to vary the moving of the vacuum slides I think that may be the key. We shall see.
03-17-2007, 09:44 PM
#22
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"I have some ideas for the carbs, that will possibly allow intake mods to work better. Many have tried and failed, but I achieved an extra 5hp, and more torque as well, so I am close."
don't be greedy now....share your secrets, lol Take a poll and you'll be surprised how many of use would like an extra 5 hp, lol
cheers
P.S. AS ever, enjoy and value your input
don't be greedy now....share your secrets, lol Take a poll and you'll be surprised how many of use would like an extra 5 hp, lol
cheers
P.S. AS ever, enjoy and value your input
03-17-2007, 10:02 PM
#23
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Well ultimately the proof will be if I get it to work, until then it is only guesswork. I have two ideas. First one is to control the slides by drilling or blocking off the holes in them. The second is to try spring pressure.
My theory is that by changing the intake on the VTR you change the airflow enough to upset the vacuum for the slides. So we all keep away from the mods that do this. But I have proven that more air will give more power and torque, so more air is good if you can get it smooth.
In my engine it was great on the dyno, nice power and torque curves, and great to ride when you got up it. The problem was constant throttle at 5-6000 rpm. It was just a bit off, and when you opened the throttle slightly, it wasn't happy. Give it WOT though and look out!!
So I am working on the fact that if you can modify the control of the slides then you can then do airbox mods, such as running larger filters or larger intakes. One day when I have nothing to do I will get back to experimenting with it again. As you would know this kind of stuff is very time consuming, and may not work anyway.
I do want to do it though, as the extra torque produced by the set up was good, and was noticeable right from low revs.
My theory is that by changing the intake on the VTR you change the airflow enough to upset the vacuum for the slides. So we all keep away from the mods that do this. But I have proven that more air will give more power and torque, so more air is good if you can get it smooth.
In my engine it was great on the dyno, nice power and torque curves, and great to ride when you got up it. The problem was constant throttle at 5-6000 rpm. It was just a bit off, and when you opened the throttle slightly, it wasn't happy. Give it WOT though and look out!!
So I am working on the fact that if you can modify the control of the slides then you can then do airbox mods, such as running larger filters or larger intakes. One day when I have nothing to do I will get back to experimenting with it again. As you would know this kind of stuff is very time consuming, and may not work anyway.
I do want to do it though, as the extra torque produced by the set up was good, and was noticeable right from low revs.
03-17-2007, 10:18 PM
#24
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"My theory is that by changing the intake on the VTR you change the airflow enough to upset the vacuum for the slides." Isn't that vacuum sourced directly from the engine?
Here is an idea for you. As the slides are vacuum controlled, how about tapping into the link between the vaccum source and the diaphragm chamber. You can then install an adjustable bleeder into the line and manually set the amount of vacuum you let in. THis will, effectively, allow you to control the slide. By running a flex control(link/cable to the bleeder, you can even adjust it on the fly. Of course, you maximum lift will always be when the bleeder is closed but you can decrese lift by letting more atmospheric pressure in to overcome the vacuum. Quick and easy (in principle anyhow). Also, if possible, link up both carbs with a tee that way you only need one control.
Here is an idea for you. As the slides are vacuum controlled, how about tapping into the link between the vaccum source and the diaphragm chamber. You can then install an adjustable bleeder into the line and manually set the amount of vacuum you let in. THis will, effectively, allow you to control the slide. By running a flex control(link/cable to the bleeder, you can even adjust it on the fly. Of course, you maximum lift will always be when the bleeder is closed but you can decrese lift by letting more atmospheric pressure in to overcome the vacuum. Quick and easy (in principle anyhow). Also, if possible, link up both carbs with a tee that way you only need one control.
03-20-2007, 03:22 AM
#25
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That type of thing is worth thinking about, and is on the same track I am on, and that is controlling the slides.
My guess, and that of my dyno tuner, is that any intake mods are creating turbulence in the airbox, which as we have proven, the extra air can make more power, but the stock slide set up can't deal with the turbulence. As soon as I put in a stock K&N filter the problem was fixed. Nothing I did could get it right with a bigger filter, at constant throttle anyway.
I shall make other comment in your airbox mod thread, as that is most probably the better spot for it.
My guess, and that of my dyno tuner, is that any intake mods are creating turbulence in the airbox, which as we have proven, the extra air can make more power, but the stock slide set up can't deal with the turbulence. As soon as I put in a stock K&N filter the problem was fixed. Nothing I did could get it right with a bigger filter, at constant throttle anyway.
I shall make other comment in your airbox mod thread, as that is most probably the better spot for it.
03-20-2007, 06:44 AM
#27
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ive been thinking about this but the closest carb i can find is an FCR keihin at 41mm max. while the smaller size would make midrange performance even more visious i think it might be small enough to hinder top end noticably. if i can find a set of them for cheep enough i will pick them up and take them to my machinest and see how much they can be bored out. if they could go to around 45mm i think they would make for gains all across the board... the vacuum slides and butterfly throotle has got to be the worst idea i have ever seen in a carb.
with a carb set up like this vacuum through the airbox would be a non-issue and we could go crazzy and do ram air or carb mount filters or all kinds of cool stuff as we wouldnt be reliant on vacuum to get the fuel and air we need through it.
our carbs apear to be based on a standard micuni design though. if all esle fails im considering gutting the butterfly and modding a top piece from a different carb that is cabled to the slide like normal carbs should be. problems with this set up will be getting cables to the actual twist throttle, and carb sync.
with a carb set up like this vacuum through the airbox would be a non-issue and we could go crazzy and do ram air or carb mount filters or all kinds of cool stuff as we wouldnt be reliant on vacuum to get the fuel and air we need through it.
our carbs apear to be based on a standard micuni design though. if all esle fails im considering gutting the butterfly and modding a top piece from a different carb that is cabled to the slide like normal carbs should be. problems with this set up will be getting cables to the actual twist throttle, and carb sync.
03-20-2007, 10:52 AM
#28
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I don't think you can make direct comparisons between teh size of CV and non-CV carbs. If I think back to the late 70's when manufacturers first started mounting CV carbs to bikes (in place of slide carbs), they typically went with significantly larger CV carbs. All this to say that it could very well be that a 41 mm FCR flows as much or more air than the 48 mm CV's that are stock on the VTR.
Just wondering as well how vacuum or pressure in the box affects the CV aspect of the carbs as I was under the assumption that the vacuum controlling this aspect of the carb's operation came from the engine (of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, lol)
Sorry for hijacking the thread btw......
Just wondering as well how vacuum or pressure in the box affects the CV aspect of the carbs as I was under the assumption that the vacuum controlling this aspect of the carb's operation came from the engine (of course, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, lol)
Sorry for hijacking the thread btw......
03-20-2007, 08:02 PM
#29
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So if you're saying that the freer flowing intake will cause what, a reduction in vacuum, right? That makes sense. Hopefully you'll agree with that fact. If I'm wrong tell me.
So the slides are controlled by vacuum through a small hole in a metal part of the diaphragm, right? So if you were to modify (read: make larger) that hole then the slides would respond more quickly, right?
Alternatively, you could reduce the spring strength on top of the carb slide and it would also respond more quickly, correct?
Have either of you guys looked into these two options?
So the slides are controlled by vacuum through a small hole in a metal part of the diaphragm, right? So if you were to modify (read: make larger) that hole then the slides would respond more quickly, right?
Alternatively, you could reduce the spring strength on top of the carb slide and it would also respond more quickly, correct?
Have either of you guys looked into these two options?
03-20-2007, 08:14 PM
#30
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ive thought about modifying the hole and or spring. thing is i would just be totally guessing on what to do for a while, and if you made the hole to big it would be extra work to fill and redrill it. i know my way around an FCR carb and could get it set up and tuned lots faster.
as for the source of the actual vacuum. it comes from the engine but is affected by lots of things. i would imagine everything from airbox size to running temp could alter it a bit.
as for the source of the actual vacuum. it comes from the engine but is affected by lots of things. i would imagine everything from airbox size to running temp could alter it a bit.
