Hotbrakes

Ride with fear and respect and you will develop the skills and mental ability to SIPDE (scan, interpret, predict, decide, and execute). The more you ride the better you get. And if you ride regularly even through the winter months in varying conditions your skills will not fade. Just watch out for other riders who don't, pick your riding buddies carefully. My risk assessments start way before I even pull the bike out. I consider my destination (what are the conditions of traffic, weather, roads), time of day, my current mental state (distracted, aggrevated, tired, hopped up on caffeine, or drunk). I even go as far as making sure I've taken a dump recently for 2 reasons- I will be uncomfortable if I gotta go and if something bad happens, I don't want to be stuck on a backboard in a hospital with no way of losing that big steak dinner from the night before. The more you train yourself to manage risks (operational risk management in the military) the less mishaps you will have. And when the unavoidable incident occurrs, you should be prepared for it (proper gear) so the sustained damage is minimized. Survival of the fittest...

RK1

Ha! You are attributing to me the idea that "don't worry, be happy" makes you crash proof. I haven't posted that and don't believe that.

I'm saying there are a lot of aspects to riding crashless for a long time or even a lifetime. One is mindset. If you insist on telling yourself that crashing is inevitable I believe it is more likely that you will crash.

I accept the possibility that I might crash, not the "likelyhood". And I sure don't think of it as inevitable.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with the concept, even get upset and insulted by it.

CentralCoaster

Let's put it this way. I think some of you are arguing semantics.

There's only ONE person who's looking out for you and keeping you upright. Yourself. So ride like you're invisible, have foresight, and don't think about crashing or all the excuses you might have for going down. And if you do, learn from it. Don't be like 90% of the guys on the rides I go on, they blame the sand, the other cars, the cold tires, bla bla bla. Nobody says they were riding too fast or pushing too hard, that would imply they could've prevented it.

Thinking you don't control your own fate reminds me of the Hardley rider with no helmet or jacket that says, "when it's your time, its your time."

I accept the fact that I might crash or be hurt, or die, and while riding I try to prevent that. It's irresponsible to think otherwise, especially if you have others depending on you.

When I take my car to the race track, I accept that I may return home with a hunk of melted plastic and steel, because I know insurance isn't going to cover it.

If you're not prepared for the consequences, then don't turn the key.

usmc7051

I've read a lot of good points in this thread and a lot of stupid ones. Forgive my laziness I really don't want to quote them all. Only tidbit I could offer that would appease both sides of the argument is it's not always about how good/experienced/defensive/offensive/safe rider YOU are. Are you confident in the abilities of the strangers driving around you? I'm a Firefighter/EMT and more often than not most motorcycle accidents I've responded to have been caused by OTHER PEOPLE. Of course you going to have your 10% of idiots on the street on their motorcycles, but when you add your everyday commuter to the other 90% safe drivers out there concerned with kids in the back seat, cell phones ringing, reading a newspaper, Speaking to the passengers in their car, mishaps are bound to happen.

I more than trust my abilities as a rider, I'm learning every day, but I in no way shape or form trust the people around me while I'm riding.

I have never recieved a speeding ticket, and I have never been in a wreck on 2 wheels or 4. But I also was raised in a rural area, I'm sure in a bigger city I might have wrecked due to someone elses negligence or my own.

swordfish

I see what you mean.


"If you insist on telling yourself that crashing is inevitable I believe it is more likely that you will crash."

I'm not saying you should convice yourself that today, you are gonna crash. or tomorrow you will crash. but eventually, statistically, its almost a certainty. might as well get used to the idea. personally, on the street I have only gone down once. I rode on the street for 5 years before it happened and its been 5 more since. I don't expect to crash every time I ride. I have faith in my abilities. but I don't have faith in every other person on the road. and sadly, they have a say in whether I crash or not. so the best I can say is if I crash, it won't be my fault. but I will be damn surprised if I don't go down a few more times before I'm done. you take whatever mindset works for you. nobody is changing any minds here anyway. I'm out.

nath981

I used to ride close to 100% of my skill level and would race anybody anytime, and I engaged in multiple other high risk activities as well(kinda had a death wish I guess).

Many destroyed bikes and cars, lots of injuries, dumbshit behaviors, and four kids later, i discovered the error of that mindset. I learned to ride and manage risks at much less than the previous "***** to the wall" riding/living. Today I ride at more like 75% of what I'd like to since I realize that road riding is much more hazardous than track racing where you actually can get away with riding at closer to 100% with relative safety. The biggest mitigating factors on the road being oncoming traffic, bridge abutments, trees, signs, guardrails, other drivers, etc.

Riding below maximum velocity along with many other strategies(enough to fill several chapters of a book) seems to have made riding a more calculating and introspective pursuit. That said, I still have mishaps and crashes(3 since 2001), mostly from sliding on road debrie, because I do like trying to wear the sides of my tires out before the middles. The road debrie hazards could be reduced by what i refer to as clearing every road you ride, however, I usually don't do this. I also realize that death or serious injury is part of the deal and each day I make it back alive is a result of my experience coupled equal amounts good fortune, and evidently, this risk is acceptable.

bowhawk

I drive my car/truck because I have to get from point A to point B. Since I bought my first bike at 16, I cannot remember getting into my car just to go for a drive.

I ride my bike because I love to. There a very few people who can afford the performance we get from our bikes in the comfort of a cage. The danger and excitement are part of the package. I have never driven my truck to work and detoured to hit some twisties. I can't ever recall planning a bike trip and not trying to hit as many enjoyable roads as possible.

I do not ever plan to get in an accident in my car/truck and the possibility is far lower than my bike because I drive out of necessity. The fact that some of us ride to enjoy the power to weight of an F1 car, the cornering ability limited only by the size of your nuts and the knowledge that 99.9% of the population think we are bonkers means we ARE more likely to have an accident than the average driver.

We just don't like to think or be told about it.

nath981

well said bowhawk! This is doubly true for new riders. For this reason, I always offer to teach new riders basic skills and comon hazards that have befallen all of us who have learned and still are learning from the school of hard knocks.

tromo01

ive been down twice...one at 30mph and just last week at 60mph...walked away from both. the funny thing is that the one at 30mph caused more damage to the bike

fighter hawk

I have been riding since i was little and on the streets for 11 years i went down for the first time in a hit and run 2 days ago i ride cautiously and went down on my head and the *** hole took off. so i can not say i qualify any more.

Circuit_Burner

I didnt crash, I slid gracefully into the flowers like superman.

scratched up some borrowed Dianeese leathers though...


"The faster you go, the safer you are ..."

" cop cars only go 130 "

" I like going fast enough to look chinese"

fighter hawk

LIAR!!! the less cars on the same road as you, the safer you are!!!

Circuit_Burner

All I got to say is ... if you dont know that turning the bars left makes the bike lean and turn right , and vice versa , then you need to ride dirt bikes longer before venturing out on the road.
My 1st road race I learned, only when the guys were laughing at me and saying I looked like I was on a sunday ride. They gave me the counter-steering baptism...
and I rode faster and faster from that point on.
If you are riding on the street, and you havent learned this about steering yet, it may save your life.
(heaven forbid you are still trying to "balance" the bike when turning)
- over 15 mph, there is no "balance" , lol. Its all in the handle bars.

nath981

My mentor, a welder/bike shop owner/mechanic who sold and worked on nortons, bsa, & bmw taught me this way: Nathaniel!!!! Grab the bull by the horns, turn his head to the right hard and the bull falls on his left side. NOW GO LIKE HELL!!

Malice

I've never been down. I was almost crushed between 2 cars at a red light a few weeks ago in the rain though. Luckily for me I was a couple cars back and heard frantic honking and when I looked behind me a Ford Explorer was sliding at me sideways and hitting his horn frantically. I was able to pull forward between the stopped cars between lanes and he came to a stop about an inch back from the bumper of the car that was in front of me. Dodged a bullet on that one cuz that one would have hurt.
________
Vapor Buddy Pipe

CentralCoaster

Wow, close call.

I tempted fate a little with 2500 miles of riding last week. A good bit of it was in the pouring rain in the dark, and lane splitting on the 405, which seemed like it'd never end. Hard to tell if they're trying to squish you intentionally, or just weaving and inattentive. I think my boot on his hood made it clear.

HawkFanatic

I plowed into a deer on my old VFR, but I didn't lay it down. Does that count as a crash?

CentralCoaster

Only for the deer.

steve.g