smokinjoe73

So I am searching for synthetic, NON resource conserving 0w20 oil for racing. Oil seems to change every 3 min but I assume the conserving stuff still is no good for bikes. I just dont want a $100 oil change but that seems to be asking too much.

Anyone know where I can score this?

skokievtr

shell rotella t-6 @ wally world for $22 / gal is only way to fly
& puro PL14610 or 612 if u don't want to trim the chin frg is best filter 4 $

oahu hawk

I thought all of the synthetic 0Wxx oil was energy conserving...

smokinjoe73

No, only the auto stuff. Substantial horsepower increase over the wally stuff but for the track only.

Anyone else?

skokievtr

You started it...

If .009% HP increase after 100 miles is "substantial", then go for it.

But horsepower is only a small part of the equation. The cost - performance index was the basic premise of this thread. Personally, after cost, wear resistance is most important. If you lost 10 pounds and kept the tires properly inflated, any horsepower advantage of a 0W-20 would be negated by Shell Rotella 5W-40 T-6; which is without a doubt the most readily available and least inexpensive “synthetic” motor oil one can use in a VTR (that also meets current OEM standards).

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades. Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.

The oil weight that you are supposed to use has nothing to do with flow. The oil weight is for the bearing clearances between the rod bearings and main bearings. These are specific tolerances that measure to precise increments of 0.001 inch. It is wise to use only the manufacturer recommended oil weight. A full synthetic is always recommended except during break-in of internal engine parts.

With all the talk about cold-weather starting(and synthetics do have a clear advantage here), the real-world ability of an oil to crank or pump when cold is potentially diminished soon after it is put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some modern European cars now have no viscosity requirement), but can vary from country to country when climatic or fuel efficiency constraints come into play.

One must also consider cost versus gains in relation to reduced wear and extended oil change intervals. If you were able to buy a good Group II 5W-40 at $2 per quart versus a mid-range quality Group III synthetic for $6 a quart, if you changed the dino oil at 3k miles and cracked syn at 5k miles, the dino oil in moderate climes actually were hold the perf - cost advantage.

A VTR engine, especially one with extensive mileage should use a 40 weight. Motorcycles usually are not started in cold temperatures where a 0W-20 would be advantageous. It’s more important to consider the base stock and how it effects flow, wear and extended intervals.

What are the advantages of a true synthetic base stock and formulation?

1. Higher resistant to shearing (losing it's viscosity to a lighter grade)
2. Higher resistant to base stock oxidation (yes, liquids can rust too) - this is why they say, "This lubricant is good up to X,XXX miles and/or 6 months"
3. Boutique lubricants like Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Red Line will have higher levels of ZDDP (a major anti-wear additive)
4. Higher detergent additive concentration (TBN) - in most cases, but not always. Diesel HDEO lubricants also have high detergent and ZDDP (even though they can be a group III highly refined petroleum)
5. No impurities in the base stock means uniform molecular structure. Uniform molecules produce less friction, less heat, and more efficiency.
6. Far superior cold flow performance (thickens less during temperature drop versus comparable grade dino/conventional)
7. Lower NOACK volatility. Less oil burn off and evaporation will result in less oil coating the inside of your supercharger, intake manifold, and oil catch cans (if one is installed).

Those are the major difference, and will result in a superior lubricant that can be used for much greater change intervals, and will exhibit decreased wear patterns.

Don't fall for the group III base stock trap that Mobil 1, Castrol, and Pennzoil (although, Pennzoil openly admits they use group III, unlike Mobil and Castrol). Let's do a brief water analogy to better understand how different base stocks are manufactured.

Many people see the word "Synthetic" on a bottle of oil and assume it's 100% created by man. This is not the case. Base stocks fall into four major categories called groups.

Group II - Petroleum oil, commonly called conventional or dino oils
Group III - hydrocracked, or heavily refined pertroleum, has impurities
Group IV - PAO, man made synthetic, no impurities
Group V - diesters, some polarized, allows engine oil to stick like a magnet to metal

First, let's talk about the difference between group III, IV, and V base stocks, and use a water analogy to see it in simple terms.

Pump water from a lake, river, or stream into a plant. Purify it, remove minerals, and make it look clear. You have "group III" water.

Take Hydrogen and Oxygen in the purest form, chemically bond them together to make "group IV" water. With no impurities to remove you have more consistent results and hence....True synthetic!

Group III - Petroleum oil that is pumped out of the ground and refined to be classified as a synthetic base stock, although a lot of experts disagree with this. A few oil manufacturers mostly use group III stocks, but still call it a synthetic...they consider the major changes in the refining process to be "synthesizing" oil. You should also note these oils will never say 100% synthetic on the bottle. The latest refining, and best of these stocks, are called group III+. These stocks seem to be the best at keeping in-solubles in suspension within the oil to carry it to the filter.

Group IV - They call them PAO (Poly-Alpha-Olefin). Like the water analogy they are true synthetic, have better cold pour properties, and better resistant to high heat "torture" situations. These base stocks give longer drain intervals. Shell will not say if their Rotella T-6 is a Group III or IV but an insider told be its a 60-40 blend of the two.

smokinjoe73

Skokie I hope you cut and pasted that dissertation from your computer. Otherwise it looks like you went through half a case of beer hacking it out.

The premise of the thread was to find the cheapest place to buy 0w20 synthetic thats non resource conserving. (It was pretty concise).

On the racetrack it is a measureable difference, (stiff competition) although yes, I really could stand to loose some wieght. Spoke to my doc about it since I just completed P90X with little loss. (what a journey that is).

I am going to print out your pamphlet to read in a comfortable setting.