where is our "riding skills" section??
03-21-2010, 08:57 AM
#1
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Location: altoona, pa
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where is our "riding skills" section??
shouldn't we a have section/category for riding skills? I know everyone who rides a superhawk is a macho, sophisticated , mature, knowlegeable, and generally higher skilled riders than the average in-line 4 sport rider neub with 6 inches worth of chicken strip on his back tire. hahahaha
I have been riding since 1963 when I was 20 except for 8 years when I quit because it was taking to much time from family. I have learned some **** about riding, much of it the dumb way, and am still evolving in terms of trying to improve, hone, and tweak mine and others' riding skills.
even though I am skilled, I still do stupid ****. My latest was yesterday when I slid through a stop sign and am still living another day because there was no traffic coming to smash me into oblivion. I couldn't believe it happened. Never would have guessed that sliding through a stop sign could be my waterloo. Sliding into the other lane on a curve, hitting a vehicle pulling out around a blind corner, sliding off the road into guardrails, trees, poles, or other, but sliding through a stop sign never occurred to me and never happened to me on any bike I've ever ridden.
Anyway, as my usual trying to learn from mistakes, i figured out how i got into this mess. Riding up to a stop sign fairly fast, but with plenty of stopping distance for dry road, I encountered an unusaul amount of gravel residue from the recent snows we've experienced this winter. The front tire broke loose and so I left off the front brake and hit the rear which I already had covered, however, still kept sliding right out onto the main road.
WTF. what a dumbass! Now that I wasn't slammed, where did i go wrong! How did I get into this trap. The answers are: too fast and positioned in the middle of the lane.
I know well to use the car tracks in the city at stops because of oil which can set you on your *** in a heartbeat, especially when wet. But i distinguish between rural roads in the same way as using highbeam in town and low on rural roads, so I entered the stop zone in the middle of the lane strewn with gravel and couldn't move over out of it because of no traction. So I was helpless to get stopped in time.
You can bet your *** that this stupid **** will never occur again. I'll make it a point of discipine to always be in the car track and (most likely on the right one, but in one of them for sure) when approaching a stop sign.
The reasons I believe we should have a sub-category are obvious. So that others can benefit from dumbass mistakes like mine for safety's sake, and to improve our rider skills by sharing habits/techniques/methods that might help us to think about and analyze the kinds of things we do and don't do when we ride.
I believe most of us believe believe that it's about 10% bike 90% rider in damn near every aspect of motorcycling with the possible exception of straight line speed, so why is it that we do not honor this belief by giving it it's own thread?
I have been riding since 1963 when I was 20 except for 8 years when I quit because it was taking to much time from family. I have learned some **** about riding, much of it the dumb way, and am still evolving in terms of trying to improve, hone, and tweak mine and others' riding skills.
even though I am skilled, I still do stupid ****. My latest was yesterday when I slid through a stop sign and am still living another day because there was no traffic coming to smash me into oblivion. I couldn't believe it happened. Never would have guessed that sliding through a stop sign could be my waterloo. Sliding into the other lane on a curve, hitting a vehicle pulling out around a blind corner, sliding off the road into guardrails, trees, poles, or other, but sliding through a stop sign never occurred to me and never happened to me on any bike I've ever ridden.
Anyway, as my usual trying to learn from mistakes, i figured out how i got into this mess. Riding up to a stop sign fairly fast, but with plenty of stopping distance for dry road, I encountered an unusaul amount of gravel residue from the recent snows we've experienced this winter. The front tire broke loose and so I left off the front brake and hit the rear which I already had covered, however, still kept sliding right out onto the main road.
WTF. what a dumbass! Now that I wasn't slammed, where did i go wrong! How did I get into this trap. The answers are: too fast and positioned in the middle of the lane.
I know well to use the car tracks in the city at stops because of oil which can set you on your *** in a heartbeat, especially when wet. But i distinguish between rural roads in the same way as using highbeam in town and low on rural roads, so I entered the stop zone in the middle of the lane strewn with gravel and couldn't move over out of it because of no traction. So I was helpless to get stopped in time.
You can bet your *** that this stupid **** will never occur again. I'll make it a point of discipine to always be in the car track and (most likely on the right one, but in one of them for sure) when approaching a stop sign.
The reasons I believe we should have a sub-category are obvious. So that others can benefit from dumbass mistakes like mine for safety's sake, and to improve our rider skills by sharing habits/techniques/methods that might help us to think about and analyze the kinds of things we do and don't do when we ride.
I believe most of us believe believe that it's about 10% bike 90% rider in damn near every aspect of motorcycling with the possible exception of straight line speed, so why is it that we do not honor this belief by giving it it's own thread?
03-21-2010, 10:30 AM
#2
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03-21-2010, 12:59 PM
#4
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Not only is that a great tip (one I use myself at all stop signs/intersections) but I will go one further to say that it is also a good habit to get into to ride on the tire tracks in canyons as well. Last time I wrecked I was in the middle of the road on a corner and the old pavement was covered with sand which blended all together. The place where there was a clean line was the place where the cars tires had been not in the middle of the road.
03-21-2010, 04:40 PM
#6
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Not only is that a great tip (one I use myself at all stop signs/intersections) but I will go one further to say that it is also a good habit to get into to ride on the tire tracks in canyons as well. Last time I wrecked I was in the middle of the road on a corner and the old pavement was covered with sand which blended all together. The place where there was a clean line was the place where the cars tires had been not in the middle of the road.
On many of the twisties around here, we have the amish horse drawn wagons and their random scattered horseshit, bicylists, farm machinery and debris, and gravel from winter, so it can get interesting. I did have a sub-conscious feeling that seemed to be trying to surface today while riding and it had something to do with spring. Maybe, due to the great weather we're having all of a sudden, everyone's as anxious and excited as me to get out there and do their thing. So this subliminal message made me realize the answer which is, to slow the **** down till the novelty effect of spring subsides and the roads become cleaner. Amen.
03-21-2010, 05:27 PM
#7
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I went out buzzin around with my brother today on some nice twisties with good elevation changes. Came up into a right hander that crested into a long downhill left hand sweeper and sure enough had i not been in the left car track i would have been down on my ***. I can carry good speed out there but i always tone it down some for the unknowns that always exist. We also have developed a system of hand and foot signals that we use to basically talk to each other while we are riding. Every little thing makes a difference.
03-21-2010, 07:54 PM
#8
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Ideally, we should be able to use the whole lane considering lean angle, camber, debries, etc., but i would be happy if we could use the middle, because it leaves the most room for the unexpected. That ain't happening with all the **** we have on our roads now, so it's pick you car track and hope you made the right choice as the turn unfolds.
the hand and foot signals help a lot, and I use them also, but when i went sliding thru the stop sign, there was only a smoke signal and that was enough for my buddy to get the idea. hahaha, but not funny then or now.
the hand and foot signals help a lot, and I use them also, but when i went sliding thru the stop sign, there was only a smoke signal and that was enough for my buddy to get the idea. hahaha, but not funny then or now.
Last edited by nath981; 03-21-2010 at 08:00 PM.
03-21-2010, 08:23 PM
#9
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i was doing a twisty run last year, not even going that fast, 60 kph, near the end of the road so i wasnt pushing, and i leaned her over and left my line, which was against the painted line and went near the mdidle of the lane, the front tire washed out and luckily enough it found grip again before i went down. scary stuff i tell ya
03-22-2010, 06:49 AM
#10
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yeah, riding is infinitely more complex than most would imagine and even with the training of MSF and track days, we're only talking tip of the iceberg in terms of all the things that can and ususally do/will happen on the street. It's like when you graduate, you think you know it all, but actually become immediately more ignorant based solely on that thought or belief.
I felt the need to develop a philosophy of moving through space and time when I was driving OTR and have based it on what had to be done to minimize physical encounters with others(more commonly know as accidents). I coined this philosophy for driving and riding as "aggression with discretion" and have worked hard to abide by it for quite a few miles now.
I wonder if most riders have a philosophy specifically for riding and/or driving, or am I the weirdo exception? 2 million miles in a truck have taught me that it's important to characterize your particular orientation because, whether or not you have coined a word or phrase to characterize your riding, you most definitely have one, and it describes the way you approach the act everytime you get behind the wheel or jump on your bike.
I felt the need to develop a philosophy of moving through space and time when I was driving OTR and have based it on what had to be done to minimize physical encounters with others(more commonly know as accidents). I coined this philosophy for driving and riding as "aggression with discretion" and have worked hard to abide by it for quite a few miles now.
I wonder if most riders have a philosophy specifically for riding and/or driving, or am I the weirdo exception? 2 million miles in a truck have taught me that it's important to characterize your particular orientation because, whether or not you have coined a word or phrase to characterize your riding, you most definitely have one, and it describes the way you approach the act everytime you get behind the wheel or jump on your bike.
03-22-2010, 12:49 PM
#11
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yeah, riding is infinitely more complex than most would imagine and even with the training of MSF and track days, we're only talking tip of the iceberg in terms of all the things that can and ususally do/will happen on the street. It's like when you graduate, you think you know it all, but actually become immediately more ignorant based solely on that thought or belief.
I felt the need to develop a philosophy of moving through space and time when I was driving OTR and have based it on what had to be done to minimize physical encounters with others(more commonly know as accidents). I coined this philosophy for driving and riding as "aggression with discretion" and have worked hard to abide by it for quite a few miles now.
I wonder if most riders have a philosophy specifically for riding and/or driving, or am I the weirdo exception? 2 million miles in a truck have taught me that it's important to characterize your particular orientation because, whether or not you have coined a word or phrase to characterize your riding, you most definitely have one, and it describes the way you approach the act everytime you get behind the wheel or jump on your bike.
I felt the need to develop a philosophy of moving through space and time when I was driving OTR and have based it on what had to be done to minimize physical encounters with others(more commonly know as accidents). I coined this philosophy for driving and riding as "aggression with discretion" and have worked hard to abide by it for quite a few miles now.
I wonder if most riders have a philosophy specifically for riding and/or driving, or am I the weirdo exception? 2 million miles in a truck have taught me that it's important to characterize your particular orientation because, whether or not you have coined a word or phrase to characterize your riding, you most definitely have one, and it describes the way you approach the act everytime you get behind the wheel or jump on your bike.
I completely agree with you here. I would consider my style "defensively aggressive". Meaning I will take opportunities to change lanes to maintain speed and efficiency, however I always stay well ahead of the vehicle and maintain strict situational awareness of whats going on around me. The "level" of my aggressiveness changes depending on what I'm driving and my experience level with it. In a car or a bus, I'm perfectly comfortable being a more aggressive with my driving, but when I'm hauling 90,000lbs of grain or riding my bike, I usually stay a little more reserved.
03-22-2010, 07:14 PM
#12
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I completely agree with you here. I would consider my style "defensively aggressive". Meaning I will take opportunities to change lanes to maintain speed and efficiency, however I always stay well ahead of the vehicle and maintain strict situational awareness of whats going on around me. The "level" of my aggressiveness changes depending on what I'm driving and my experience level with it. In a car or a bus, I'm perfectly comfortable being a more aggressive with my driving, but when I'm hauling 90,000lbs of grain or riding my bike, I usually stay a little more reserved.
I have to smile when I see signs depicting aggressive drivers as a negative danger to be leary of----"beware of aggressive drivers". Aggressive drivers can be too aggressive, yes definitely, albeit I would rather share the road with these than passive drivers, and even more so with passive-aggressive drivers who suddenly accelerate when someone's passing or moves over on you when you are passing in a no passing zone.
Based on my experiences, there are some good drivers out there, but they are in relatively short supply on American roads. Aggressive implies focused, aware, alert, active, comprehensible and predictable and these attributes enable drivers/riders to not only understand traffic conditions in NYC, on a 75mph 8 lane interstate and on a rural two lane, but to know what the operators of other vehicles are doing and/or are likely to do ahead, beside or behind them. What you call "defensive" and me "discretion" merely tempers the term aggression in a manner suggesting that there is a positive aspect that suggests an underlying thoughtful purpose or intent to enhance safe, pragmatic, and cooperative travel.
03-22-2010, 07:48 PM
#13
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ride on the tire tracks in canyons as well. Last time I wrecked I was in the middle of the road on a corner and the old pavement was covered with sand which blended all together. The place where there was a clean line was the place where the cars tires had been not in the middle of the road.
I was tired and got just a bit lazy with my lines. There was some dark sand between the tire tracks, in the shade. I didn't even know what happened. My friends had to tell me later.
After a full day of being completely focused and in the zone, a momentary lapse...
03-26-2010, 12:14 PM
#14
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this may not technically be under the category of riding skills, but it does have relevance. Sport Rider mag, page 80. Casey Stoner's ideas significantly improve Ducati handling. Contrary to what the computer implied, they raised the ride height and footpegs and this resulted in reduced lean angle and reduced need to use the edge of the tires. Raised the handle bar height(to accommodate and arm injury)and coincidentally discovered further improvement. These alterations along with some seating adjustments had monumental effect on handling.
Coincidentally, raising the SH via Jamie's modded F4i spring and raising the front to match (front back posture-ah oh, forgot to upgrade that in my signature; front initially lowered), bars up level with top and back, forks right under, has resulted in the same phenomen of staying off the edge of the tire. At first i thought it was due to a 190x50 on a 5.5" rim, but evidently that's not the case since I've corrected that a while back.
Coincidentally, raising the SH via Jamie's modded F4i spring and raising the front to match (front back posture-ah oh, forgot to upgrade that in my signature; front initially lowered), bars up level with top and back, forks right under, has resulted in the same phenomen of staying off the edge of the tire. At first i thought it was due to a 190x50 on a 5.5" rim, but evidently that's not the case since I've corrected that a while back.
03-27-2010, 03:32 AM
#15
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Wow! i really didn't think anyone would know what I was talking about with terms like philosophy and aggressive driving being somehow deeply compatible. But I did figure that anyone who has spent significant time one the road and who takes seriously the act of driving and how it affects others on the road would at least understand.
I have to smile when I see signs depicting aggressive drivers as a negative danger to be leary of----"beware of aggressive drivers". Aggressive drivers can be too aggressive, yes definitely, albeit I would rather share the road with these than passive drivers, and even more so with passive-aggressive drivers who suddenly accelerate when someone's passing or moves over on you when you are passing in a no passing zone.
Based on my experiences, there are some good drivers out there, but they are in relatively short supply on American roads. Aggressive implies focused, aware, alert, active, comprehensible and predictable and these attributes enable drivers/riders to not only understand traffic conditions in NYC, on a 75mph 8 lane interstate and on a rural two lane, but to know what the operators of other vehicles are doing and/or are likely to do ahead, beside or behind them. What you call "defensive" and me "discretion" merely tempers the term aggression in a manner suggesting that there is a positive aspect that suggests an underlying thoughtful purpose or intent to enhance safe, pragmatic, and cooperative travel.
I have to smile when I see signs depicting aggressive drivers as a negative danger to be leary of----"beware of aggressive drivers". Aggressive drivers can be too aggressive, yes definitely, albeit I would rather share the road with these than passive drivers, and even more so with passive-aggressive drivers who suddenly accelerate when someone's passing or moves over on you when you are passing in a no passing zone.
Based on my experiences, there are some good drivers out there, but they are in relatively short supply on American roads. Aggressive implies focused, aware, alert, active, comprehensible and predictable and these attributes enable drivers/riders to not only understand traffic conditions in NYC, on a 75mph 8 lane interstate and on a rural two lane, but to know what the operators of other vehicles are doing and/or are likely to do ahead, beside or behind them. What you call "defensive" and me "discretion" merely tempers the term aggression in a manner suggesting that there is a positive aspect that suggests an underlying thoughtful purpose or intent to enhance safe, pragmatic, and cooperative travel.
Maintaining your focus is the first step to riding safely. Being in a good mood helps too.
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