Picks of the rat bike
08-25-2010, 11:06 AM
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Picks of the rat bike
Hey all, I introduced myself a month or so ago, but finally got some pics together.
I picked this newfound love up at night so didn't really have appropriate means to look it over (you know, like sunlight), and I'm pretty new to the two wheels and a motor madness in general so don't really have an idea of what to look for. My closest other interest is cycling, which doesn't have things such as, say, combustion or several different fluids to keep track of. And I don't count putting air in my tires and changing the oil in my car as much of a maintenance knowledge.
This is the new to me '98 VTR. 24K miles, researched several different bikes and wanted this one. Got on it. Needed this one. Vtwin sound and torque are just dead gorgeous, and from with all of these guys my age riding around in wife beaters and pajama bottoms, getting smamsies at a club and then drag racing home on their brand new GIXXER.
Upon a more detailed inspection this bike seems to have been in a, uh, road scuffle or two. Probably got pissed at it's friends doing road rash doughnuts and decided to try one, ending up with a wheel in the sky and then on the ground backwards. Rider probably stayed with it and gave for a soft landing cause the tank seems dent free. Although, uhhhhh, this bike is maroon (which from what I can tell that wasn't ever a production color). Found a spot where the paint chipped away and this bike used to be.... purple? I mean what kind of... oh there's the Italian red. It was red. Then purple. Then this actually quite nice maroon. Hmmmm, black radiators, black frame, black triple tree. And, oh, black overspray on the shock. Great- I probably overpaid for this thing judging by how meticulous the previous owner was. No worries though, because riding it is the fun part. I am a little curious as to what I will find under all that paint. It'll be like a treasure hunt where the best thing I can find will be nothing!
So if you notice anything from the pics that I should be worried about (you know- "Hey dude, typically with this model of motorcycle you are supposed to have a rear wheel and tire") then let me know. APE CCT's are going on, and I'll get to the RR soon. And for your entertainment the front fairing mount is held on by, you guessed it, a hose clamp.
Plans for the bike: I want to go full streetfighter. I welcome all ideas; especially those from you who want to try something but would never do it on your own ride. Put long rebar spikes EVERYWHERE. That sort of genius is what I'm looking for. And I take constructive criticism very well, so don't hold back in the future on telling me that I have no idea what I'm talking about and Lincoln Logs are more the realm that I should focus on. All I know right now is that I want to put and undertail radiator as I've seen done. And I would like to paint the frame with one of those textured paints. It'll probably start slow, because in Phoenix our riding season is going to be really starting soon so don't want to be out of service for months on end. Thanks for checkin my ride out!
I picked this newfound love up at night so didn't really have appropriate means to look it over (you know, like sunlight), and I'm pretty new to the two wheels and a motor madness in general so don't really have an idea of what to look for. My closest other interest is cycling, which doesn't have things such as, say, combustion or several different fluids to keep track of. And I don't count putting air in my tires and changing the oil in my car as much of a maintenance knowledge.
This is the new to me '98 VTR. 24K miles, researched several different bikes and wanted this one. Got on it. Needed this one. Vtwin sound and torque are just dead gorgeous, and from with all of these guys my age riding around in wife beaters and pajama bottoms, getting smamsies at a club and then drag racing home on their brand new GIXXER.
Upon a more detailed inspection this bike seems to have been in a, uh, road scuffle or two. Probably got pissed at it's friends doing road rash doughnuts and decided to try one, ending up with a wheel in the sky and then on the ground backwards. Rider probably stayed with it and gave for a soft landing cause the tank seems dent free. Although, uhhhhh, this bike is maroon (which from what I can tell that wasn't ever a production color). Found a spot where the paint chipped away and this bike used to be.... purple? I mean what kind of... oh there's the Italian red. It was red. Then purple. Then this actually quite nice maroon. Hmmmm, black radiators, black frame, black triple tree. And, oh, black overspray on the shock. Great- I probably overpaid for this thing judging by how meticulous the previous owner was. No worries though, because riding it is the fun part. I am a little curious as to what I will find under all that paint. It'll be like a treasure hunt where the best thing I can find will be nothing!
So if you notice anything from the pics that I should be worried about (you know- "Hey dude, typically with this model of motorcycle you are supposed to have a rear wheel and tire") then let me know. APE CCT's are going on, and I'll get to the RR soon. And for your entertainment the front fairing mount is held on by, you guessed it, a hose clamp.
Plans for the bike: I want to go full streetfighter. I welcome all ideas; especially those from you who want to try something but would never do it on your own ride. Put long rebar spikes EVERYWHERE. That sort of genius is what I'm looking for. And I take constructive criticism very well, so don't hold back in the future on telling me that I have no idea what I'm talking about and Lincoln Logs are more the realm that I should focus on. All I know right now is that I want to put and undertail radiator as I've seen done. And I would like to paint the frame with one of those textured paints. It'll probably start slow, because in Phoenix our riding season is going to be really starting soon so don't want to be out of service for months on end. Thanks for checkin my ride out!
Last edited by 7moore7; 08-25-2010 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Putting up a post of parts for sale at a later date
08-25-2010, 12:38 PM
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08-25-2010, 12:41 PM
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The one thing that bothers me is the broken fairing stay mount. The bike had to take a pretty good hit to cause that kind of damage.
As you are new to bikes, i would suggest that you have someone take a look at that for you to 1) make sure the frame is still straight. 2) make sure there is not anymore hidden damage that might have been covered up by painting the frame.
Once you get that squared away, then start on the mods you have planned.
As you are new to bikes, i would suggest that you have someone take a look at that for you to 1) make sure the frame is still straight. 2) make sure there is not anymore hidden damage that might have been covered up by painting the frame.
Once you get that squared away, then start on the mods you have planned.
08-25-2010, 01:26 PM
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Yeah, the local mechanic that I use is out of town on, you guessed it, a bike trip. He had a chance to give it a quick once over before he left and said the exact same thing. But told me it was good to putt around town for now. I am a little curious myself as to what is inside this thing. I am no major shop buy, but can wrench a few things together and eager to learn so this may be a good project for me (and my mechanic).
Thanks for the link- I'll do a proper classified post when I assess what all is going to be sold/kept. And i'll keep note on that first dibs slabm7
Thanks for the link- I'll do a proper classified post when I assess what all is going to be sold/kept. And i'll keep note on that first dibs slabm7
08-31-2010, 11:05 AM
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Got a few opinions/updates on the unknowns. Took it to FastTrack, a local frame straightening place, said it would be $400 to make 100% sure that the frame is straight, but we came to the conclusion that it would be fine to continue on with the assumption that it is OK. I've had the bike at high speeds, and there's no pull or wobble, and I don't plan on being on the track soon (or maybe ever with this bike b/c of the naked setup I want to do).
Now I get to see how to make it mine on a budget.
Now I get to see how to make it mine on a budget.
08-31-2010, 01:25 PM
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Got a few opinions/updates on the unknowns. Took it to FastTrack, a local frame straightening place, said it would be $400 to make 100% sure that the frame is straight, but we came to the conclusion that it would be fine to continue on with the assumption that it is OK. I've had the bike at high speeds, and there's no pull or wobble, and I don't plan on being on the track soon (or maybe ever with this bike b/c of the naked setup I want to do).
Now I get to see how to make it mine on a budget.
Now I get to see how to make it mine on a budget.
08-31-2010, 01:59 PM
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Point taken. I want to say that I was aware of this, and it being part of the reason why I felt the need to update the post. The bike seems to handle solidly; I feel very comfortable on it and have have had no real issues so far, but am new to the pastime and realize that my opinion is worth uncooked beans. Two experienced bikers gave me the go ahead to ride, (mechanic and frame straightening guy) and they seemed to know what they were talking about.
I know these things are probably difficult to discern without seeing the bike in person or riding it, but how often/serious is this issue?
As a side note, this forum is ridiculously awesome and has helped me with several issues in the short time that I've explored it!
I know these things are probably difficult to discern without seeing the bike in person or riding it, but how often/serious is this issue?
As a side note, this forum is ridiculously awesome and has helped me with several issues in the short time that I've explored it!
08-31-2010, 02:43 PM
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Well.. As others have said, to break the fairing stay mount it needs a pretty solid hit... At that point odds are high that other things are damaged... I'd probably not trust a frame like that unless it had been measured up, and repaired by a pro... A looking over isn't worth much when you are in the ditch... As your budget options might be slim, take the time to strip the bike to a bare frame and have that looked at... That should save substantially if you do the work yourself, and as a bonus you know the bike inside out afterwards...
But that's just me... I have a hard time trusting mechanics in general since I have been burned enough times... Now if I can't do something myself, I either get references since they where in diapers, or stand over the guy working if I have to farm something out... But I realise there is a middle ground somewhere... I'm probably not going to go looking for it myself though...
But that's just me... I have a hard time trusting mechanics in general since I have been burned enough times... Now if I can't do something myself, I either get references since they where in diapers, or stand over the guy working if I have to farm something out... But I realise there is a middle ground somewhere... I'm probably not going to go looking for it myself though...
08-31-2010, 02:53 PM
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If you strip the bike down and bring the frame to Ft. Worth I'll NDI the frame for you and look for cracks. Pretty quick inspection and under the light, cracks will show up. You pay for the penetrant. Do you have any friends in the aviation industry? If you do ask them if they can do this inspection for you. Anyone who rebuilds wheels and brakes will have this equipment or if they are a stand alone shop they might have it too.
08-31-2010, 04:42 PM
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Huh, guess i'll be strippin this thing down, then. Projects are always fun, though. Place I'm renting won't have workable garage space for another month or so (urgh! my living situation is awesome and annoying at the same time).
Couldn't y'all just have said the bike is pristine, has some under cover mod that the owner didn't know about and I should be ready to ride professionally if I just turn a screw 1/4 around? All kidding aside, thanks for the advice. Probably saving me a lot of hassle in the future.
Assuming I'm a careful person and pretty good at putting things back together the way I found them, excepting relationships (hah!), is this a difficult undertaking?
RWhisen-Thanks for the offer. I may shoot to try to find someone more local first.... what does NDI refer to?
Off to take the VLX out of storage for a second round.
Couldn't y'all just have said the bike is pristine, has some under cover mod that the owner didn't know about and I should be ready to ride professionally if I just turn a screw 1/4 around? All kidding aside, thanks for the advice. Probably saving me a lot of hassle in the future.
Assuming I'm a careful person and pretty good at putting things back together the way I found them, excepting relationships (hah!), is this a difficult undertaking?
RWhisen-Thanks for the offer. I may shoot to try to find someone more local first.... what does NDI refer to?
Off to take the VLX out of storage for a second round.
Last edited by 7moore7; 08-31-2010 at 04:49 PM.
09-10-2010, 08:32 PM
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Non-Destructive Inspection.
We use a dye penetrant and a UV light to reveal any cracks in the frame or welds joining two or more pieces together. Pretty quick inspection but you'll want to polish your frame afterwards to get all the dye off.
09-13-2010, 10:59 AM
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As soon as I get more than 10 sq feet of space available the bike will start to come apart. Bedroom is a sweet idea.... I'm "renting" on the 3rd floor of a condo, though. I do have the roof too! Maybe I'll take it apart and re-assemble it up there.
09-13-2010, 11:39 AM
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That thought kinda reminds me of this guy hanging his lambo on the wall:
http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cu...dcar_12564.asp
A couple of paragraphs in it says he did it because he was tired of it breaking down.
http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cu...dcar_12564.asp
A couple of paragraphs in it says he did it because he was tired of it breaking down.
09-23-2010, 11:07 PM
#18
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LOL that was a cool link.
I think chances are slim that the frame would actually crack. I've seen fork legs bend and head tube bearings whacked into ovals before a frame actually cracked. One of the good things about the conventional style fork is the legs will bend before they **** the frame up. Fork legs are pretty easy to see if they're bent, just look down em or if you're obsessive you could strip them from the bodies and roll them on a smooth surface. If the head tube bearings are ovaled you'll hear a clunk when you get on the front brakes. If they're really bad you can hold the front brake and push the bike forward and backward to hear the clunk. Check that stuff before you fool around with dyes and frame straighteners.
By the way streetfighters done noob style are no good. Either go full on rat bike, or do the damn thing right.
For example:
And a true rat:
I think chances are slim that the frame would actually crack. I've seen fork legs bend and head tube bearings whacked into ovals before a frame actually cracked. One of the good things about the conventional style fork is the legs will bend before they **** the frame up. Fork legs are pretty easy to see if they're bent, just look down em or if you're obsessive you could strip them from the bodies and roll them on a smooth surface. If the head tube bearings are ovaled you'll hear a clunk when you get on the front brakes. If they're really bad you can hold the front brake and push the bike forward and backward to hear the clunk. Check that stuff before you fool around with dyes and frame straighteners.
By the way streetfighters done noob style are no good. Either go full on rat bike, or do the damn thing right.
For example:
And a true rat:
09-24-2010, 06:11 AM
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That first pic of that TLR is so badass. I've got a click in my front end, under braking and can be duplicated while holding the front brake and trying to push the bike back and forth too. Is it just a simple bearing replacement to remedy this (ovaled bearing) or is there underlying headtube damage? I know the bike has crashed previously due to the slighty bent steering stop I found. Just curious to know before I do a front end swap.
09-24-2010, 06:50 AM
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LOL that was a cool link.
I think chances are slim that the frame would actually crack. I've seen fork legs bend and head tube bearings whacked into ovals before a frame actually cracked. One of the good things about the conventional style fork is the legs will bend before they **** the frame up. Fork legs are pretty easy to see if they're bent, just look down em or if you're obsessive you could strip them from the bodies and roll them on a smooth surface. If the head tube bearings are ovaled you'll hear a clunk when you get on the front brakes. If they're really bad you can hold the front brake and push the bike forward and backward to hear the clunk. Check that stuff before you fool around with dyes and frame straighteners.
By the way streetfighters done noob style are no good. Either go full on rat bike, or do the damn thing right.
I think chances are slim that the frame would actually crack. I've seen fork legs bend and head tube bearings whacked into ovals before a frame actually cracked. One of the good things about the conventional style fork is the legs will bend before they **** the frame up. Fork legs are pretty easy to see if they're bent, just look down em or if you're obsessive you could strip them from the bodies and roll them on a smooth surface. If the head tube bearings are ovaled you'll hear a clunk when you get on the front brakes. If they're really bad you can hold the front brake and push the bike forward and backward to hear the clunk. Check that stuff before you fool around with dyes and frame straighteners.
By the way streetfighters done noob style are no good. Either go full on rat bike, or do the damn thing right.
This is also why it's a common modification to find on previously raced VTR's to have the frame reinforced a good bit at that part...
This is just a side note, since it seems your name might be a bit misleading, you seem to know a fair amount about bikes... But there are some particular quirks to VTR's that might be usefull to know... This being one of them...
Last edited by Tweety; 09-24-2010 at 06:52 AM.
09-24-2010, 09:19 AM
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A) Scooter, I have that same "click". Same question goes for me as far as head tube damage. I have 929rr forks ready to go...
B) Just got my other bike up and running, so I'll disassemble this one down to the frame and strip the paint off of it to have a pro analyze the thing. I'll start a build thread for that one when it happens.
B) Just got my other bike up and running, so I'll disassemble this one down to the frame and strip the paint off of it to have a pro analyze the thing. I'll start a build thread for that one when it happens.
09-24-2010, 10:15 AM
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The "clicking" is just the stock ball type head stock bearing going out. It is common and more than likely there is no real damage do by this.
Just replace the steering head bearings (and you can run either the stock type or tapered bearings, whichever makes you feel better) and the problem should go away.
If there is no "notch" in the race you might be able to get away with just tightening them up but it sounds like both sets talked about are past that point.
Just replace the steering head bearings (and you can run either the stock type or tapered bearings, whichever makes you feel better) and the problem should go away.
If there is no "notch" in the race you might be able to get away with just tightening them up but it sounds like both sets talked about are past that point.
09-24-2010, 10:17 AM
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While I respect your opinion, the VTR is notorious for having a fairly weak headstock compared to some other bikes... I really can't tell you why, but it's more likely to have a damaged headstock than several other bikes when you bend the forks... And that's why us oldtimers around here suggest having that checked by a pro if you aren't sure for yourself...
This is also why it's a common modification to find on previously raced VTR's to have the frame reinforced a good bit at that part...
This is just a side note, since it seems your name might be a bit misleading, you seem to know a fair amount about bikes... But there are some particular quirks to VTR's that might be usefull to know... This being one of them...
This is also why it's a common modification to find on previously raced VTR's to have the frame reinforced a good bit at that part...
This is just a side note, since it seems your name might be a bit misleading, you seem to know a fair amount about bikes... But there are some particular quirks to VTR's that might be usefull to know... This being one of them...
and taking a hit hard enough to break the fairing stay mount does warrant a close inspection to make sure things aren't tweaked.
09-24-2010, 11:54 AM
#24
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While I respect your opinion, the VTR is notorious for having a fairly weak headstock compared to some other bikes... I really can't tell you why, but it's more likely to have a damaged headstock than several other bikes when you bend the forks... And that's why us oldtimers around here suggest having that checked by a pro if you aren't sure for yourself...
09-24-2010, 12:37 PM
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I totally agree with you and I've heard the same about VTR frame weaknesses, but like any good mechanic knows always use process of elimination before assuming the worst. Always check the simple stuff first. Like that smart guy on CSI says, ""If you hear hoof beats, think horses—not zebras"
The sound from the forks, I go with your hoof beats... Check/Replace the bearings and the races... But when the mounts for fairing stay go snap, I start looking for both horses AND zebra's...
I have seen a VTR frame break at that point from a rather gentle low speed get-of that left the rider unhurt... The front rim was dented on the lip but the tire held air, the forks where straight... He was just done ripping of or taping up the fairings when the guys at tech inspection found the cracks in the frame... No more fun that weekend...
Not saying something will happen here, or that it happened to that guy... He trailered the bike home and replaced the frame... Back at the track two weekends later... But either you have the know-how or you ask someone that does...
09-24-2010, 03:10 PM
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The crack was "inside" the weld, at the join between the headstock and the rest of the frame, top part... The bolt holes to the fairing stay was also cracked but not snapped off... My uneducated guess is that the hit took on the top part of the fork, ie around the triples... That would explain why they didn't bend and the frame got the beating...
09-24-2010, 09:00 PM
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As you can see from the picks mine's kinda shady anyway because it's painted with cheap black rattle can stuff. I'm kinda scared to tear it down cause I may need to get a new frame/motor/bike etc... but I guess it's better than finding out I need that stuff in the ditch like Tweety said.
09-25-2010, 05:07 AM
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But in any other case it's a definite possibility...
Yeah 7moore7... I have kinda tried that... It didn't work well... So now I try to check things before I go full throttle down the road on them...
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