Are long wheelies a danger?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12
From: New York
Are long wheelies a danger?
I was riding with a group of people a short time ago, and not long before that I learned how to do 2nd gear wheelies standing on the passenger pegs. One of the guys before me said I shouldn't do them so long because he had a friend with a sv650 that did a long wheelie and burned out the front cylinder due to it being a V-Twin and the oil draining to the back. Has anybody had this problem with a Superhawk? I just got mine this year and I wasn't too sure if I should continue riding out wheelies or not.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
I was riding with a group of people a short time ago, and not long before that I learned how to do 2nd gear wheelies standing on the passenger pegs. One of the guys before me said I shouldn't do them so long because he had a friend with a sv650 that did a long wheelie and burned out the front cylinder due to it being a V-Twin and the oil draining to the back. Has anybody had this problem with a Superhawk? I just got mine this year and I wasn't too sure if I should continue riding out wheelies or not.
Yes, I have heard of people having this same problem with the front cylinder getting starved for oil.
Really no bike is made from the factory to be able to handle this kind of use. (some are better than others though) but any twin will have an issue with this because the oil can actually drain from the pan into the rear cylinder causing the front to get none of the oil, where as an I4 will still get some but just not as much.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
If you have had the oil pan off or looked at the factory schematic, you can see where the oil pickup is. What you need to know is, how much oil is used from pickup to the drain. Once you figure that out, it's not going to be perfect, but er on the plus side, then you will know how much is left in the pan. Then you'll know if this is truely a good idea at the angles you get your bike at.
The above aside, wheelies are freakin' fun man! I don't hold them long enough to warrant figuring out the above, but I can assume somebody has since the Superhawk/Firestorm has hit the market.
I've seen guys actually install headlights underneath thier bike, so while riding a wheelie at night, they can see where the heck they're going. Nuts, hey?
I'm not smart enough to figure out how much oil is left in the pan while the engine is running. Anybody care to fill in?
The above aside, wheelies are freakin' fun man! I don't hold them long enough to warrant figuring out the above, but I can assume somebody has since the Superhawk/Firestorm has hit the market.
I've seen guys actually install headlights underneath thier bike, so while riding a wheelie at night, they can see where the heck they're going. Nuts, hey?
I'm not smart enough to figure out how much oil is left in the pan while the engine is running. Anybody care to fill in?
Last edited by CruxGNZ; Oct 7, 2013 at 10:32 PM.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
If you have had the oil pan off or looking at the dactory chematic, you can see where the oil pickup is. What you need to know is, how much oil is used from pickup to the drain. Once you figure that out (using some math) it's not going to be perfect, but er on the plus side, then you will know how much is left in the pan. Then you will know if this is truely a good idea at the angles you get your bike at.
The above aside, wheelies are freakin' fun man! I don't do them enough to warrant figuring out the above. I can assume somebody has since the Superhawk/Firestorm has hit the market.
The above aside, wheelies are freakin' fun man! I don't do them enough to warrant figuring out the above. I can assume somebody has since the Superhawk/Firestorm has hit the market.
Expensive party trick!!!
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,864
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Funny how people worry about the front cylinder - it is a pressurized oiling system and gravity will not "drain" the oil away from the front cylinder. Whenever you hear this comment bells should start going off telling you that person has no clue at all of what they are talking about. Watch your oil light. If it isn't glowing you still have pressure and all is well.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
Funny how people worry about the front cylinder - it is a pressurized oiling system and gravity will not "drain" the oil away from the front cylinder. Whenever you hear this comment bells should start going off telling you that person has no clue at all of what they are talking about. Watch your oil light. If it isn't glowing you still have pressure and all is well.
Jamie, yes the oil is pressurized, but also yes the front cylinder will get starved for oil, once again no it may not run completely dry and yes, the rear cylinder will get starved as well, but the reason it will effect the front before the rear is because all that oil starts to drain from the pan, in tooooo, you guessed it the rear cylinder.
If the bike is stood up the oil leaves the pan, no the oil light might not come on but with only a switch accutating the oil light and not having a guage you really dont know how much you're getting. Oil pressure switch's will keep the light off if there is 1 pound of oil pressure headed through the system, here the light is off but its not enough oil pressure to lubricate the entire motor.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
It depends where the oil pickup is...one of the more experienced gurus here could tell you.
Oil is pressurized like Jamie said, but unless you have a dry sump system, oil COULD move away from the pickup and cause starvation if you're doing something the manufacturer didn't account for (like mile long wheelies), especially if maybe you're a bit low on oil?
You could always buy another big vtwin bike for doing mile long wheelies, one with a dry sump system, Tuono/Mille/Falco anyone?
Oil is pressurized like Jamie said, but unless you have a dry sump system, oil COULD move away from the pickup and cause starvation if you're doing something the manufacturer didn't account for (like mile long wheelies), especially if maybe you're a bit low on oil?
You could always buy another big vtwin bike for doing mile long wheelies, one with a dry sump system, Tuono/Mille/Falco anyone?
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
In my experience contrary to the popular belief the light has been a level indicator. All of my Yamaha's anyway have been this way
Edit: Honda service manual does call it a pressure switch. Last few bikes I have owned manual has said them to be oil level switches
Edit: Honda service manual does call it a pressure switch. Last few bikes I have owned manual has said them to be oil level switches
Last edited by insulinboy; Oct 8, 2013 at 11:16 AM.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
As I stated earlier it is an oil pressure switch, not a sensor. With a switch there are two positions, on or off. Pressure even 1psi of pressure can register to keep the light off but not have enough flow to supply the whole engine.
But on the other hand if the pick up is in the rear of the pan then realistically this shouldnt be as much of an issue as in other bikes. (like the sv650 where the pick up is machined/ integrated into the case and there really isnt much of an oil pan persay)
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
If it were a "level switch" then any time oil is incontact with this sensor and the key is turned on but the engine isnt running the light would be off.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Prolonged wheelies could be potentially harmful to the front auto CCT (this was speculation I've read on this forum). The reason that was given was that there are no oil channels leading to that part; it is oiled/cooled from above and is deprived of this in a wheelie situation. It was one theory as to why the front CCT goes more often than the rear.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
I have never seen an manufacture do that, (not saying they wouldn't though)
Its like putting a bandaid on a broken arm. pointless. As is a level sensor IMHO, you can still have no pressure with the proper level, and you can still have proper pressure with a low level. Used in conjuction with each other, understanable.
On a serious note, why do all of our threads get so off topic these days? lol
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Or it's a pressure switch.
I'm going with the first scenario on a hunch because prolonged wheelies exasperate the balance of tire wear between front and rear.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
From: Orlando, FL
Well they could do it because the oil level isn't important unless the motor is running and they wanted to save battery life when the key is turned but the engine isn't on because the little oil light LED not sucking up precious battery power is more important than the confusion that this scenario offers to the owner.
Or it's a pressure switch.
I'm going with the first scenario on a hunch because prolonged wheelies exasperate the balance of tire wear between front and rear.
Or it's a pressure switch.
I'm going with the first scenario on a hunch because prolonged wheelies exasperate the balance of tire wear between front and rear.
The light would be off if the oil level is correct, which it is alway correct running or not running. So like I said the light would be off, KOEO or KOER.
Your statement just contradicted your first statement as stating the may have programmed it to be on when in the KOEO postion, now you have changed to saying it would be off KOEO.
Maybe I'm just lost..... lol
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Oh shoot! It... uh... it...
Oh, I know. They could program it to turn on like an oil pressure light when the motor is off so that you know that the light is working like a seatbelt or check engine light in a car. That's definitely it.
Pretend you didn't read what I said before. Also, pretend I'm being serious
Oh, I know. They could program it to turn on like an oil pressure light when the motor is off so that you know that the light is working like a seatbelt or check engine light in a car. That's definitely it.
Pretend you didn't read what I said before. Also, pretend I'm being serious
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Name the bike please. Make, Model, Year
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
The motor is a pressure fed oiling system.. not splashed lube..
If a wheelie were to cause lack up lube to the front cylinder,, it was lacking lube at both cylinders... and crank, cams, transmission
Pretend mechanics get this confused.. from this thread alone,, it would seem confused a lot.
The oil pick up can become uncovered.. if it does, you will lose oil pressure.... The oil pick up will become uncovered with the front of the bike well above the rear.
If a wheelie were to cause lack up lube to the front cylinder,, it was lacking lube at both cylinders... and crank, cams, transmission
Pretend mechanics get this confused.. from this thread alone,, it would seem confused a lot.
The oil pick up can become uncovered.. if it does, you will lose oil pressure.... The oil pick up will become uncovered with the front of the bike well above the rear.
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Jamie, yes the oil is pressurized, but also yes the front cylinder will get starved for oil, once again no it may not run completely dry and yes, the rear cylinder will get starved as well, but the reason it will effect the front before the rear is because all that oil starts to drain from the pan, in tooooo, you guessed it the rear cylinder. .
Again it's not splashed ;lubed... If the pick up is submersed in oil,, the entire oil system is getting oil.. If the pick up is not getting oil.. then NOTHING is getting pressure fed oil.. front and rear cylinder.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
It's easier to push oil sideways than up...perhaps if you lose pressure the front cylinder loses more pressure faster (while doing a wheelie)
