RWhisen

If his motor "locked up" that would be an indicator of bad stuff right there. It doesn't have to make clattering noises....and newish CCTs can't be counted out.

One of the keys here is that his motor went off power and THEN locked up. That would indicate to me that the CCT let go, the cam chain jumped a few teeth then the valve hit the piston.

pchrist

Sorry didn't get back on yesterday. When it went off power it did have a weird sound to it sounded like the bag of bolts. It continued to run a bit then stalled out. I haven't tried rolling the motor over or anything. I know it's not a good thing but i am wondering how bad will it be. How expensive will it be?

Wicky

Depends on what's gone wrong and needs replacing - Also if you get new or secondhand parts and wether you DIY or pay someone else for their expertise and time to put it right.

Plus the cost of a pair of manual CCTs...

pchrist

So what all parts do you think i would need. Lets say that they cct let go and that's what it is? I think i will take it somewhere to get fixed but it's a guy that i know that can fix it for me at a decent price. He has done most of my other work so far.

7moore7

First thing would be to check valve clearances (as per the manual. It has step-by-step). Once you do this you will have a much better idea of what cost will be. I suspect it will only be in one of the heads if a CCT let go.

Do you have a torque wrench? If so, much of the labor can be done yourself. If you check the valves, then pull the head with damage in it and bring that to your mechanic, they can replace everything for $100-$200 labor (add that to the cost of the valves/seals). Then you replace the head yourself and install new CCT's. It's a big project but will save you a bunch of money if you tackle the labor.

pchrist

I have access to a shop that i can put it in for a week or so to get it pulled apart! I have no problem taking it apart but putting it back together is the part that worries me!!!

7moore7

Well you're going to have to trailer it anyway...

So my suggestion would be to pull the valve covers and check clearances to see what you're dealing with (one head or two, which valves, etc). THEN order necessary parts inc. gaskets. THEN pull off what the shop doesn't need to make it easier on them if you haven't already (gas tank, fairings, etc.) Then wheel it over with the parts and necessary service manual pages, have them do the work, and put the rest back on yourself.

pchrist

So there is a member that has a motor for 500? Would that be better to do than to try and rebuild the other????

Wicky

Have you ascertained what's gone wrong with your current motor by taking of the cam covers and inspecting and measuring valve clearances?

If you can narrow it down to CCT failure, with associated valve damage then you might only need to find a replacement head to transplant on. Which will be an easier and cheaper job than swapping over the whole motor.

If you find that valves have hit the pistons hard then yes a whole engine would be a good solution.

pchrist

No i haven't had the time. Was going to start the process tonight and tomorrow night. I should open it up and see what's wrong before jumping in with both feet!!!

msethhunter

How about "How much oil is in it?"

If it's out of oil, CCT's are probably out of the question, and that $500 motor sounds real nice about now.

pchrist

Ok so last night we took the cyclinder heads off and the the chain on the rear was on top of the teeth and jammed against the plate between the cams. We loosened the cam and got the timing re aligned to where we thought. The chain was loose and it seems the rear CCT failed and not keeping the chain tight. Going to have another "real" mechanic look at it and go from there. going to have him check the valve clearances while i have it opened up once the timing is corrected. Give it a once over.

Question could the timing chain be stretched and need to be replaced?

E.Marquez

Yes but that is not your issue...the loose chain has allowed the cam timing to be off.. that caused the valvesto crash into the piston.

As suggested, check the valve clearancesyou’ll likely find one or more very open set of clearances.. that would be thebent valve that no longer can close.

That is just the educated WAG,better would be a leak down test, better still remove the head and inspect.

7moore7

Unlikely. Do a valve clearance check like Marquez said. This will tell you a lot with only a little bit of effort. You need a feeler gauge set ($5 or less at an auto store) and a little patience. But with this you'll know which head is having problems and somewhat the extent of the damage. The whole process is laid out in the routine maintenance section of the shop manual.

I'd really recommend trying to do this yourself before going to a mechanic. It's a great way foot to jump off of.

pchrist

but with out tension on the timing chain can i check the the clearances?

7moore7

Yes. You just need the cams and covers installed. It'll be slightly different than in the manual, but it's very possible. If you decide to tackle it, we can give you a few more pointers on the process...

Edit: why would there not be tension? You can put the old CCT's back in temporarily to check clearances, or even just rotate the motor over very carefully without them in and do the process like normal.

pchrist

I am open for any suggestions on it!!!!

msethhunter

If the valves hit the pistons, and left any kind of mark, you should replace the piston it hit as well. It will create a stress point for the piston to fail at.



HowStuffWorks "Camshaft Configurations"

pchrist

holy F!!!!!!! that's looks horrific
!

7moore7

That's dangerous looking!

How much of an issue do you think this really is? Reason I ask is, there have been quite a few folks on here with piston/valve unplanned interface who replace the bent valves or head and go on their way. As in more of them than rebuild the whole thing from what I've read. Standard operating procedure with a CCT failure is not to just rebuild the whole thing (any failure which would cause the busted valves that is), but to inspect the pistons and replace the valves. I could see this being an issue if someone repetitively tried to run the motor when it's broken or let it spin over a bunch so that the damage is more extreme, but I'm no expert either...

I guess what it really comes down to is, how much of a mark are you talking about left on the piston?

E.Marquez

Somewhere between being struck by lightning and winning the lottery.

msethhunter

It's not a huge issue. But anything more than a little ding, and it should be replaced. Pistons see TREMENDOUS pressure, HUGE vibrations, etc. And the pistons in the bike stock IIRC are cast units. Cast pistons can't take much abuse.