FZ09 vs Superhawk
12-20-2015, 01:43 PM
#4
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SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 731
Definitely a different ride. It still has plenty of torque, thanks to the triple configuration, but you'd probably want to find one where someone has dumped the money into fixing the quirky suspension if you're looking for a used one. The upright seating position is also much more comfortable, though you have pretty much zero wind protection. That means that you get to exercise your grip strength on the highway.
It's not particularly difficult to move away from the Superhawk once you've ridden other motorcycles, in all honesty.
It's not particularly difficult to move away from the Superhawk once you've ridden other motorcycles, in all honesty.
12-20-2015, 11:26 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
If you want a "real bike" then the VTR is hard to go past.
Having had numerous other bikes whilst owning the VTR I can honestly say that it is my favourite!
The thing with more modern bikes is that sure they are sweet to ride, have great brakes, killer engines good ergos and numerous electronic gadgets , some that are good and some that interfere too much with the way that you want to ride given a particular day.
Having said all of that, being a tinkerer I can't get involved with the later bikes like I do with the VTR. There's not much left to do with the latest crop except pipes, Power Commander, set the suspension,maybe springs and valves, a bit of bling and then your done.
As time rolls by VTRs are becoming rarer and tend to make more of a statement than the latest bikes.
Biased I may be , but owning a bike is more about the total experience and the return for your efforts than having the latest and greatest.
A well fettled VTR will still keep the latest offerings honest when it comes to real day riding if you are prepared to make the effort.
So far these have been through the man cave whilst the VTR has been in my possession.
[URL=http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/kbarr2/media/F196ED7B-7B32-4932-A971-2FB2C2CC5D20_zpsmk6yeisq.jpg.html]
[/URL
By now you should be getting the picture!
Twins rule, or at least Vs.
The best thing for me about the VTR is that my mates don't understand why I ride it so much , and most importantly how it still keeps them honest when they are riding their latest and greatest.
P.S here in Oz the Yamaha Tripple is called the MT09 and I have had a go on a mates. The motor is a peach, the suspension is ***** straight up out of the box and the VTR keeps it very honest to the point where it gives my mate the *****.
That's what I love about my VTR, it does what people perceive it shouldn't because it's viewed as old, Like Me!
If you only have one bike stick with the VTR, do a few mods and enjoy giving your mates the ***** every time you ride with them.
Having had numerous other bikes whilst owning the VTR I can honestly say that it is my favourite!
The thing with more modern bikes is that sure they are sweet to ride, have great brakes, killer engines good ergos and numerous electronic gadgets , some that are good and some that interfere too much with the way that you want to ride given a particular day.
Having said all of that, being a tinkerer I can't get involved with the later bikes like I do with the VTR. There's not much left to do with the latest crop except pipes, Power Commander, set the suspension,maybe springs and valves, a bit of bling and then your done.
As time rolls by VTRs are becoming rarer and tend to make more of a statement than the latest bikes.
Biased I may be , but owning a bike is more about the total experience and the return for your efforts than having the latest and greatest.
A well fettled VTR will still keep the latest offerings honest when it comes to real day riding if you are prepared to make the effort.
So far these have been through the man cave whilst the VTR has been in my possession.
[URL=http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/kbarr2/media/F196ED7B-7B32-4932-A971-2FB2C2CC5D20_zpsmk6yeisq.jpg.html]
[/URL
By now you should be getting the picture!
Twins rule, or at least Vs.
The best thing for me about the VTR is that my mates don't understand why I ride it so much , and most importantly how it still keeps them honest when they are riding their latest and greatest.
P.S here in Oz the Yamaha Tripple is called the MT09 and I have had a go on a mates. The motor is a peach, the suspension is ***** straight up out of the box and the VTR keeps it very honest to the point where it gives my mate the *****.
That's what I love about my VTR, it does what people perceive it shouldn't because it's viewed as old, Like Me!
If you only have one bike stick with the VTR, do a few mods and enjoy giving your mates the ***** every time you ride with them.
Last edited by kenmoore; 12-20-2015 at 11:30 PM.
12-20-2015, 11:32 PM
#6
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
Definitely a different ride. It still has plenty of torque, thanks to the triple configuration, but you'd probably want to find one where someone has dumped the money into fixing the quirky suspension if you're looking for a used one. The upright seating position is also much more comfortable, though you have pretty much zero wind protection. That means that you get to exercise your grip strength on the highway.
It's not particularly difficult to move away from the Superhawk once you've ridden other motorcycles, in all honesty.
It's not particularly difficult to move away from the Superhawk once you've ridden other motorcycles, in all honesty.
My favorite bike is the VTR. By no means the fastest, flashest or most modern. The ride makes up for all those things.
My partner asked why I had not bought a new bike. I have test ridden a ZX14, Busa. But they dont make me smile like the VTR.
12-21-2015, 12:34 AM
#7
Who are you?
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 731
Ive got 6 bikes in the shed currently. CBR, Bandit 12 etc. Have ridden Gixxers, CBRs etc etc.
My favorite bike is the VTR. By no means the fastest, flashest or most modern. The ride makes up for all those things.
My partner asked why I had not bought a new bike. I have test ridden a ZX14, Busa. But they dont make me smile like the VTR.
My favorite bike is the VTR. By no means the fastest, flashest or most modern. The ride makes up for all those things.
My partner asked why I had not bought a new bike. I have test ridden a ZX14, Busa. But they dont make me smile like the VTR.
I find it funny that someone pointed out that there's only so much to tamper with on modern bikes. While it's not particularly true, it's certainly an advantage. I love being able to do tuning that does not require taking the carbs apart 15 separate times to adjust jets and change needle heights until you achieve "perfection." It's tiring and doesn't make any sense compared to the ease of EFI. And you can easily spend hours fiddling with EFI tuning, I've done it with HP tuners on cars, if tuning really tickles your fancy.
12-21-2015, 12:45 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
The Superhawk is definitely a different ride, which is probably why people love it the way they do. Then again, this is also a Superhawk forum. The large number of people that disliked it have already moved on to other things.
I find it funny that someone pointed out that there's only so much to tamper with on modern bikes. While it's not particularly true, it's certainly an advantage. I love being able to do tuning that does not require taking the carbs apart 15 separate times to adjust jets and change needle heights until you achieve "perfection." It's tiring and doesn't make any sense compared to the ease of EFI. And you can easily spend hours fiddling with EFI tuning, I've done it with HP tuners on cars, if tuning really tickles your fancy.
I find it funny that someone pointed out that there's only so much to tamper with on modern bikes. While it's not particularly true, it's certainly an advantage. I love being able to do tuning that does not require taking the carbs apart 15 separate times to adjust jets and change needle heights until you achieve "perfection." It's tiring and doesn't make any sense compared to the ease of EFI. And you can easily spend hours fiddling with EFI tuning, I've done it with HP tuners on cars, if tuning really tickles your fancy.
I test rode a GSX1000 when they came out. Nice bike but could have been so much better.
On track days the young guns ask me what it is, old is sometimes new.
12-21-2015, 06:45 AM
#9
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
If you want a "real bike" then the VTR is hard to go past.
Having had numerous other bikes whilst owning the VTR I can honestly say that it is my favourite!
The thing with more modern bikes is that sure they are sweet to ride, have great brakes, killer engines good ergos and numerous electronic gadgets , some that are good and some that interfere too much with the way that you want to ride given a particular day.
Having said all of that, being a tinkerer I can't get involved with the later bikes like I do with the VTR. There's not much left to do with the latest crop except pipes, Power Commander, set the suspension,maybe springs and valves, a bit of bling and then your done.
As time rolls by VTRs are becoming rarer and tend to make more of a statement than the latest bikes.
Biased I may be , but owning a bike is more about the total experience and the return for your efforts than having the latest and greatest.
A well fettled VTR will still keep the latest offerings honest when it comes to real day riding if you are prepared to make the effort.
So far these have been through the man cave whilst the VTR has been in my possession.
[URL=http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/kbarr2/media/F196ED7B-7B32-4932-A971-2FB2C2CC5D20_zpsmk6yeisq.jpg.html]
[/URL
By now you should be getting the picture!
Twins rule, or at least Vs.
The best thing for me about the VTR is that my mates don't understand why I ride it so much , and most importantly how it still keeps them honest when they are riding their latest and greatest.
P.S here in Oz the Yamaha Tripple is called the MT09 and I have had a go on a mates. The motor is a peach, the suspension is ***** straight up out of the box and the VTR keeps it very honest to the point where it gives my mate the *****.
That's what I love about my VTR, it does what people perceive it shouldn't because it's viewed as old, Like Me!
If you only have one bike stick with the VTR, do a few mods and enjoy giving your mates the ***** every time you ride with them.
Having had numerous other bikes whilst owning the VTR I can honestly say that it is my favourite!
The thing with more modern bikes is that sure they are sweet to ride, have great brakes, killer engines good ergos and numerous electronic gadgets , some that are good and some that interfere too much with the way that you want to ride given a particular day.
Having said all of that, being a tinkerer I can't get involved with the later bikes like I do with the VTR. There's not much left to do with the latest crop except pipes, Power Commander, set the suspension,maybe springs and valves, a bit of bling and then your done.
As time rolls by VTRs are becoming rarer and tend to make more of a statement than the latest bikes.
Biased I may be , but owning a bike is more about the total experience and the return for your efforts than having the latest and greatest.
A well fettled VTR will still keep the latest offerings honest when it comes to real day riding if you are prepared to make the effort.
So far these have been through the man cave whilst the VTR has been in my possession.
[URL=http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/kbarr2/media/F196ED7B-7B32-4932-A971-2FB2C2CC5D20_zpsmk6yeisq.jpg.html]
[/URLBy now you should be getting the picture!
Twins rule, or at least Vs.
The best thing for me about the VTR is that my mates don't understand why I ride it so much , and most importantly how it still keeps them honest when they are riding their latest and greatest.
P.S here in Oz the Yamaha Tripple is called the MT09 and I have had a go on a mates. The motor is a peach, the suspension is ***** straight up out of the box and the VTR keeps it very honest to the point where it gives my mate the *****.
That's what I love about my VTR, it does what people perceive it shouldn't because it's viewed as old, Like Me!
If you only have one bike stick with the VTR, do a few mods and enjoy giving your mates the ***** every time you ride with them.
12-21-2015, 06:57 AM
#10
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Fran Freako
Posts: 393
Your name is Kenmore, cause you keep that VTR so clean! Nice bikes!!
Your garage (and neighborhood) look very appealing as well. I want to move there too. Do they allow people from CA? Without a million to spend?
I know, you don't want us.
Your garage (and neighborhood) look very appealing as well. I want to move there too. Do they allow people from CA? Without a million to spend?
I know, you don't want us.
12-21-2015, 07:26 AM
#11
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
I think NZ knows where I am coming from.
It's hard to explain, I just feel more connected to the old girl.
The current bikes in the man cave are going to be sold as I am thinking of doing a cafe racer project on a VTR.
Don't hold your breath, however if it does get of the ground I will start a thread on it.
I find that the VTR is enough bike for me these days and you can only ride one at a time.
By the way I have owned more than 40 bikes and have often had multiples at the same time. Usually they are gone by 12 months, some only lasted weeks!
Strange thing is that the VTR has been with me for over 3 years now.
I know of a few VTR owners that swapped to the Yamaha and have good things to say, but after riding one I know that it is not for me.
It's hard to explain, I just feel more connected to the old girl.
The current bikes in the man cave are going to be sold as I am thinking of doing a cafe racer project on a VTR.
Don't hold your breath, however if it does get of the ground I will start a thread on it.
I find that the VTR is enough bike for me these days and you can only ride one at a time.
By the way I have owned more than 40 bikes and have often had multiples at the same time. Usually they are gone by 12 months, some only lasted weeks!
Strange thing is that the VTR has been with me for over 3 years now.
I know of a few VTR owners that swapped to the Yamaha and have good things to say, but after riding one I know that it is not for me.
12-21-2015, 10:27 AM
#12
Who are you?
SuperSport
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 731
Its not all about HP. And no not everybody will love the VTRs. Its about what makes the owner happy. Ive owned injected bikes, just left me cold.
I test rode a GSX1000 when they came out. Nice bike but could have been so much better.
On track days the young guns ask me what it is, old is sometimes new.
I test rode a GSX1000 when they came out. Nice bike but could have been so much better.
On track days the young guns ask me what it is, old is sometimes new.
Last edited by Just_Nick; 12-21-2015 at 10:29 AM.
12-21-2015, 03:23 PM
#13
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
I bought my 98 new in 99 when I had 5 other bikes. Of those I only still have the VTR and my 77 RD400. Whereas I regret selling my 61 Matchless G80Cs Cafe, 72 H2 Mach IV, 84 VF500F and 81 GPz550D1 if for any other reason how they looked and more so, sounded, many others that visited my stable not so much.
To use our southern brother's term, I like to "fettle" and find (while it's getting more and more difficult) the VTR is the perfect vehicle to modify and see appreciable if sometimes subtle results. I am "one" with my VTR and I've made it fit me in many ways more than ergonomically as I've matured.
There is not another motorcycle I know that rewards smooth, intelligent pilot inputs like a VTR, and it still goes plenty fast for street if not track riding; although even there it's a hoot and shows up many more modern conveyances.
BTW and knock on plastic, my VTR now has about 105,000 miles on it and everything that rolls except tires is original OEM!
Last edited by skokievtr; 12-21-2015 at 03:26 PM.
12-21-2015, 11:50 PM
#15
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
Skokie,
That's some serious **** you got goin on there mate.
I thought I had it bad.
Testimony to what you can do to customise a VTR to suit your own individual needs.
I wonder where I will be in 15 years with mine as i've only had it for 3 years so far.
That's some serious **** you got goin on there mate.
I thought I had it bad.
Testimony to what you can do to customise a VTR to suit your own individual needs.
I wonder where I will be in 15 years with mine as i've only had it for 3 years so far.
12-22-2015, 01:13 AM
#17
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Hmmm... Perhaps I should make a list like that... Dunno how many mods I have made to date, but I'd say I have forgotten about 20-30 of them by now... And redone about the same amount... Some more than twice...
At some point a friend had a look and estimated there was about ten unmolested original parts left... That was a while ago...
At some point a friend had a look and estimated there was about ten unmolested original parts left... That was a while ago...
12-22-2015, 03:27 AM
#18
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
OMG Tweety I forgot about You!
We're waiting Markus!
There are several I'm missing but I didn't count cosmetic or lightening mods...
BTW, how's the baby, wife and shop?
I've inquiried before but you can PM me...
There are several I'm missing but I didn't count cosmetic or lightening mods...
BTW, how's the baby, wife and shop?
I've inquiried before but you can PM me...
Hmmm... Perhaps I should make a list like that... Dunno how many mods I have made to date, but I'd say I have forgotten about 20-30 of them by now... And redone about the same amount... Some more than twice...
At some point a friend had a look and estimated there was about ten unmolested original parts left... That was a while ago...
At some point a friend had a look and estimated there was about ten unmolested original parts left... That was a while ago...
12-22-2015, 05:55 AM
#19
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 189
kenmoore - how does the Aprilia V4 Tuono compare? I was thinking that might be my eventual superhawk replacement. You know, in like, 10 years.
That or an fz09 where someone had already dumped $1000 into the suspension, and added a pipe and small windscreen.
There's something about thumping my way up a twisty mountain road with a huge smile on my face, ready to scoot right past a brand new sportbike or two. Torque and nimble handling are the equalizers!
That or an fz09 where someone had already dumped $1000 into the suspension, and added a pipe and small windscreen.
There's something about thumping my way up a twisty mountain road with a huge smile on my face, ready to scoot right past a brand new sportbike or two. Torque and nimble handling are the equalizers!
12-22-2015, 11:06 AM
#20
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,544
The Tuono is a mental ride.
The ergos are good but feel funny after the VTR, the brakes are excellent however care must be used as on more than one occasion when braking hard with the fronts at high speed the back wheel has got loose.
The power is insane and the sound is something else when driving hard.
People complain about fuel economy on the VTR, the Tuono is no better.
It feels tall and squat when riding and in the twisties the wheely control comes in handy when getting on the gas.
I struggled with the suspension, especially when accelerating hard and changing direction fast as the front would wiggle almost like a head shake. After much fiddling it is now a lot more settled.
It took a while to get used to it, that's for sure. Everything happens instantaneously compared to the VTR and care and diligence are required to get the best out of it.
Enjoyment factor is immense, however I have to be very focused to get the best out of it.
It is a rapid transit machine that has the ability to scare you muttless if you are not carefull.
I am 59 years old soon and must concede that reflexes aren't what they used to be, but it is still good fun, almost illicit in it's operation.
The Tuono is a threat to my license and it is a bike that attracts a lot of attention from the Police. I have been stopped twice on it, both long stories that involved lengthy lectures from the law. A common thread to these rants was " you should know better at your age"
It is and can be a threat to your license.
To sum it up, I find that I can ride it hard, and if I am out with some mates riding and get a break my friends can't catch me . Eveytime I ride it I can't help thinking that I wish I was younger. It is almost impossible to thrash it whereas The VTR is very thrashable in comparison. The Tuono is a great bike, however I am yet to gel with it like the VTR. I have done 900 Klms in a day on the VTR and couldn't imagine me doing that on the Tuono, it is more of a short course bike that gets ridden over my local mountain roads. the Tuono feels short and tall, whereas the VTR feels long and lean. The Tuono has led me to the conclusion that power is not everything.One thing I wish the VTR had is the power shifter from the Tuono, what a great device for rapid transit, every big bore bike should have this. I could talk about the differences for weeks, the underlying thing is that when you ride the Tuono hard it is very busy in comparison to when I ride the VTR hard.When it comes to technology the Tuono is in another league, accessing the Tuono is challenging and I can't help but think about the old saying" Many a good tune has been played on an old fiddle" and that's how I compare the VTR to the Tuono. The VTR is more relaxing and less taxing to ride under all conditions for me.
Do I regret having the Tuono, No never!
Will it be moving on? Sadly yes , it is too much of a focused bike that doesn't quite fit my motorcycling these days.
One important thing that I forgot to mention is that I have had 3 Aprillias and they are not hard to own from a maintenance point of view, very similar to any Japanese bike, and much easier to live with than a Ducati.
If anyone buys an RSV Tuono I would strongly suggest some track days to learn how to appreciate it best as it's hard to do so on public roads.
It's a weapon!
The ergos are good but feel funny after the VTR, the brakes are excellent however care must be used as on more than one occasion when braking hard with the fronts at high speed the back wheel has got loose.
The power is insane and the sound is something else when driving hard.
People complain about fuel economy on the VTR, the Tuono is no better.
It feels tall and squat when riding and in the twisties the wheely control comes in handy when getting on the gas.
I struggled with the suspension, especially when accelerating hard and changing direction fast as the front would wiggle almost like a head shake. After much fiddling it is now a lot more settled.
It took a while to get used to it, that's for sure. Everything happens instantaneously compared to the VTR and care and diligence are required to get the best out of it.
Enjoyment factor is immense, however I have to be very focused to get the best out of it.
It is a rapid transit machine that has the ability to scare you muttless if you are not carefull.
I am 59 years old soon and must concede that reflexes aren't what they used to be, but it is still good fun, almost illicit in it's operation.
The Tuono is a threat to my license and it is a bike that attracts a lot of attention from the Police. I have been stopped twice on it, both long stories that involved lengthy lectures from the law. A common thread to these rants was " you should know better at your age"
It is and can be a threat to your license.
To sum it up, I find that I can ride it hard, and if I am out with some mates riding and get a break my friends can't catch me . Eveytime I ride it I can't help thinking that I wish I was younger. It is almost impossible to thrash it whereas The VTR is very thrashable in comparison. The Tuono is a great bike, however I am yet to gel with it like the VTR. I have done 900 Klms in a day on the VTR and couldn't imagine me doing that on the Tuono, it is more of a short course bike that gets ridden over my local mountain roads. the Tuono feels short and tall, whereas the VTR feels long and lean. The Tuono has led me to the conclusion that power is not everything.One thing I wish the VTR had is the power shifter from the Tuono, what a great device for rapid transit, every big bore bike should have this. I could talk about the differences for weeks, the underlying thing is that when you ride the Tuono hard it is very busy in comparison to when I ride the VTR hard.When it comes to technology the Tuono is in another league, accessing the Tuono is challenging and I can't help but think about the old saying" Many a good tune has been played on an old fiddle" and that's how I compare the VTR to the Tuono. The VTR is more relaxing and less taxing to ride under all conditions for me.
Do I regret having the Tuono, No never!
Will it be moving on? Sadly yes , it is too much of a focused bike that doesn't quite fit my motorcycling these days.
One important thing that I forgot to mention is that I have had 3 Aprillias and they are not hard to own from a maintenance point of view, very similar to any Japanese bike, and much easier to live with than a Ducati.
If anyone buys an RSV Tuono I would strongly suggest some track days to learn how to appreciate it best as it's hard to do so on public roads.
It's a weapon!
12-22-2015, 01:49 PM
#21
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
Gentleman's Express
That's what I call the VTR.
enough horsepower, enough torque to get you in trouble if you're lazy OR crazy but overall a calm and pleasant way to get somewhere expeditiously, and back without commotion
enough horsepower, enough torque to get you in trouble if you're lazy OR crazy but overall a calm and pleasant way to get somewhere expeditiously, and back without commotion
12-22-2015, 08:43 PM
#22
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
I love my VTR, but it is not immune to the laws of physics any more than any other bike......
Last edited by mikstr; 12-22-2015 at 08:49 PM.
12-22-2015, 11:02 PM
#23
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Auckland, new Zealand
Posts: 932
Please, no more of this old myth: V-twins do not have some special, inherent magic that widens their powerband (if I had a dollar for every time I have read this fallacy (same for V4s) I would be a rich man). Power distribution is a function of tuning, NOT cylinder mating configuration/architecture (all things being equal, ie. scavenging effects,...). Same goes for the old wives tale about I4s being peaky... tell that to a Bandit 1250 owner, then watch him take off in 4th gear to prove you wrong...........
I love my VTR, but it is not immune to the laws of physics any more than any other bike......
I love my VTR, but it is not immune to the laws of physics any more than any other bike......
12-22-2015, 11:18 PM
#24
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Prague - Czech
Posts: 219
From certain cc, let's say 600, 4 cylinder will be always stronger than 2 or 3 cyl. 1200 4 cyl cannot be compared to 2 cyl 1000, it cannot be compared even to 2 cyl 1200, with the same level of technology.
12-23-2015, 06:31 AM
#25
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,873
Thanks in advance.
12-24-2015, 01:47 PM
#26
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
I agree but the 90 degree angle on the VTR provides perfect primary balance and they somehow cancelled out most of the inherent secondary rocking couple to provide one of the smoothest V-twins I've ridden. I don't know if that will change going to Erik's 1# lighter flywheel.
V-Twins should also be narrower if not also lighter than a transverse 3 or more for a given displacement over 600cc excluding the big-inch American iron but Yamaha has done a great job packaging their FZ/FJ-9 unit.
I'm curious how the VTR would be with a staggered big-bang firing order that is supposed to improve traction both on paving and dirt with the close-coupled power pulses.
The sound of a twin is also more pleasing to me because it is easier to discern the power pulses, although the rip of a straight 4, shriek and whine of a gear-driven cam V4, and mixed scream of triple all offer a range of audio tonality that are like varied bouquets to a wine aficionado. A thumper on the pipe is also nostalgic to me given my many early years with British singles.
V-Twins should also be narrower if not also lighter than a transverse 3 or more for a given displacement over 600cc excluding the big-inch American iron but Yamaha has done a great job packaging their FZ/FJ-9 unit.
I'm curious how the VTR would be with a staggered big-bang firing order that is supposed to improve traction both on paving and dirt with the close-coupled power pulses.
The sound of a twin is also more pleasing to me because it is easier to discern the power pulses, although the rip of a straight 4, shriek and whine of a gear-driven cam V4, and mixed scream of triple all offer a range of audio tonality that are like varied bouquets to a wine aficionado. A thumper on the pipe is also nostalgic to me given my many early years with British singles.
Please, no more of this old myth: V-twins do not have some special, inherent magic that widens their powerband (if I had a dollar for every time I have read this fallacy (same for V4s) I would be a rich man). Power distribution is a function of tuning, NOT cylinder mating configuration/architecture (all things being equal, ie. scavenging effects,...). Same goes for the old wives tale about I4s being peaky... tell that to a Bandit 1250 owner, then watch him take off in 4th gear to prove you wrong...........
I love my VTR, but it is not immune to the laws of physics any more than any other bike......
I love my VTR, but it is not immune to the laws of physics any more than any other bike......
12-24-2015, 03:58 PM
#27
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
I am not saying there are not subtle changes in power delivery brought on by crank phasing (ie. there is a reason Yamaha opted for a crossplane crank phasing on its M1 and R1), but to somehow insinuate that simply building an engine into a Vee configuration somehow magically gives it a broader powerband is rubbish. A 90-degree, single crankpin twin does have the advantage of perfect primary balance, but the same can be achieved with a 270-degree crank phasing on a parallel twin (as Yamaha, Triumph and now Honda have demonstrated).
The point I wanted to make is that oversimplifications and urban legends such as the one alluded to initially do not do justice to the veritable complexity of the matter.
In finishing, I want to draw your attention to the undeniable irony that is this: while big V-twins are said to possess magical low-end power, rolling on the throttle at low rpm on any big V-twin inevitably has the engine chugging and protesting in such a way that one is left wondering if the engine will self-destruct (meanwhile, the so-called peaky I4 pulls with nary a stumble). In my previous life as the editor of a bike rag, I was fortunate (?) enough to ride most big cruisers (Victory, Star and Suzuki...) and they all did this. All that low-end, but not able to use it, lol The Duke 690 (Single; another configuration credited with miraculous low-end) was the same, and you soon learned to be VERY gentle with the throttle below 3500 rpm or risk having the engine grenade itself. Ponder that one...
Enough said.
Merry Xmas everyone
The point I wanted to make is that oversimplifications and urban legends such as the one alluded to initially do not do justice to the veritable complexity of the matter.
In finishing, I want to draw your attention to the undeniable irony that is this: while big V-twins are said to possess magical low-end power, rolling on the throttle at low rpm on any big V-twin inevitably has the engine chugging and protesting in such a way that one is left wondering if the engine will self-destruct (meanwhile, the so-called peaky I4 pulls with nary a stumble). In my previous life as the editor of a bike rag, I was fortunate (?) enough to ride most big cruisers (Victory, Star and Suzuki...) and they all did this. All that low-end, but not able to use it, lol The Duke 690 (Single; another configuration credited with miraculous low-end) was the same, and you soon learned to be VERY gentle with the throttle below 3500 rpm or risk having the engine grenade itself. Ponder that one...
Enough said.
Merry Xmas everyone
Last edited by mikstr; 12-24-2015 at 04:02 PM.
12-25-2015, 06:57 AM
#28
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
Mikster,
I said I agreed and immediately excluded "big-inch American iron" and should have added "and their metric kinfolk".
But running a 270 degree crank in a parallel twin is not the same as a true 90 degree V-twin, and the ability of an I4 to spin up from low revs also can be compromised with flywheel mass or a lack thereof and other "tuning" parameters.
But I am being specific to the VTR and I do not find it stumbles from low down and with a lighter flywheel expect even better pick-up at the expense of more rapid rate of decel on closed throttle.
Cheers and merry Christmas to those who partake!
I said I agreed and immediately excluded "big-inch American iron" and should have added "and their metric kinfolk".
But running a 270 degree crank in a parallel twin is not the same as a true 90 degree V-twin, and the ability of an I4 to spin up from low revs also can be compromised with flywheel mass or a lack thereof and other "tuning" parameters.
But I am being specific to the VTR and I do not find it stumbles from low down and with a lighter flywheel expect even better pick-up at the expense of more rapid rate of decel on closed throttle.
Cheers and merry Christmas to those who partake!
12-25-2015, 07:08 PM
#29
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
I miss Oz....
12-25-2015, 07:39 PM
#30
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
I rode the 1200 bandit on twistis and other and I have to say, even though it's not hi tech, it is one of the most comfortable bikes I have ever ridden, It's like a Cadillac of the bikes, you can almost fall asleep riding, the sitting position is like you molded into the bike, not on top of the bike like most other, very smooth and yes, it does have lot's of power almost from get go, pulls like a train. I would not mind to have one for long trips.
